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 Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean 
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Post Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
http://specials.msn.com/a-list/lifestyle/russian-sub-gulf-of-mexico-popular-pages

A nuclear-powered Russian attack submarine (see photos of which type) sailed into the Gulf of Mexico and remained undetected for a month, according to new reports. Last month, Russian Prime Minister Putin announced that Russia is seeking naval bases in two surprising nations, including one close to the United States. Experts say Putin is putting on a strategic show of strength.

You guys may have seen this already, but here's the story I just read. As a Navy Veteran, this concerns me. The reason I'm concerned, especially on the heals of yesterday's Army Investigation on one of it's top Generals, is because our leadership and moral fabric is coming apart.

From 88 - 93 the U.S. Military had a strong moral fabric, and training that was meant to teach ethical standards to our troops. I believe it was called the Code of Conduct.

Now in more recent years, and especially in the last 7 or so, we've seen an increase in conduct unbecoming. CO's faking their own deaths to cover up affairs, General's abusing military privilidges, Secret Service fiasco's, and let us not forget Abu Garib.... This type of complancency flows from the top down, and when our leadership is without ethics and sound moral standards, the weak among us will choose to take the easier route of no moral standards and ethics as well.

This isn't a party thing, sadly it's societal! The Russian Sub, just illustrates the complacency we have about our own National Security, and could ALSO illustrate how busy we are around the world, stretching our military too thin. However, I don't agree with American Naval Admirals' offending the Russians by responding to the story that Russian Ships would be holding excercises with Chavez, and Castro, by saying, "can they sail their ships that far?" He was implying the rudimentary and rusted ships of the Soviet Navy, as compared to the technologically advanced, sports cars that we have. Sports cars only work when you drive them, and he should have responded with a little more humility in my opinion....

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August 16th, 2012, 12:25 pm
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
I question the validity of this story. I find it hard to believe that a Russian sub can run amock undetected in the Gulf which is pretty shallow and very clear. Throw in our sonar and satellite technology and it seems unlikely.

I'd be curious to hear what DOD officials comment on this story.

Now a couple of decades ago this would have been big news.

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August 16th, 2012, 12:41 pm
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
Daily Mail wrote:
Russian attack submarine slipped past US Navy and patrolled Gulf of Mexico for weeks undetected
By Daily Mail Reporter
PUBLISHED: 10:54 EST, 15 August 2012
UPDATED: 15:10 EST, 15 August 2012

A Russian attack submarine slipped into the Gulf of Mexico undetected and sailed through US strategic waters for weeks without the US Navy noticing, it was reported on Wednesday.

The US military didn't even know about the presence of the Akula-class nuclear submarine earlier this year until after it had already left the gulf, still carrying a payload of long-range missiles.

The revelation is part of a startling trend of Russian incursions as the former Cold War foe ramps up its military might under the leadership of President Vladimir Putin.

The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative news site, quoted anonymous military sources as saying the sub was in the gulf for a month.

The exact time frame of the vessel's presence was not clear.

'The Akula was built for one reason and one reason only: To kill US Navy ballistic missile submarines and their crews,' a source told the Beacon.

The US Navy's Atlantic submarine fleet is based at Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay on the coast of southern Georgia.

Akula-class subs are designed to run fast and quietly. They are equipped with torpedoes, mines and cruise missiles.

Russia has a fleet of nine of the vessels, which are 360 feet long and are powered by a pressurized water nuclear reactor.

The last time a Russian sub was spotted this close to the US was in 2009, when a pair of the subs were discovered patrolling off the east coast.

'Sending a nuclear-propelled submarine into the Gulf of Mexico-Caribbean region is another manifestation of President Putin demonstrating that Russia is still a player on the world’s political-military stage,' Norman Polmar, a naval intelligence consultant, told the Beacon.

In June, a fleet of Russian strategic nuclear bombers conducted a training operation in the Arctic without notifying the American military.

Then, in July, a Bear H strategic bomber, capable of carrying cruise missiles, entered American airspace near California. US Air Force fighter jets had to be scrambled to meet the plane and turn it back.

'It’s a confounding situation arising from a lack of leadership in our dealings with Moscow. While the president is touting our supposed "reset" in relations with Russia, Vladimir Putin is actively working against American interests, whether it’s in Syria or here in our own backyard,' Republican Sen John Cornyn told the Beacon.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z23jFsECzK
And:
Global Times wrote:
US rejects report on Russian nuclear sub patrolling Gulf of Mexico undetected
Global Times | 2012-8-16 0:10:08
By Wang Zhaokun and Duan Congcong

An official with the US Department of Defense on Wednesday denied media reports that a Russian nuclear-powered submarine recently operated in restricted US waters for up to a month without being detected.

"I don't know what that information was based on, but it was not correct," Wendy Snyder, a spokeswoman with the Pentagon, said to the Global Times.

The Washington Free Beacon newspaper, citing unnamed sources, had reported that a Russian nuclear attack submarine sailed undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for weeks and was not discovered until it had left the strategic waters.

"The stealth underwater incursion in the Gulf took place at the same time Russian strategic bombers made incursions into restricted US airspace near Alaska and California in June and July, and highlights a growing military assertiveness by Moscow," the report said

A Russian attack submarine also sailed close to the shores in 2009, it added.

The report said the Russian submarine was of the Akula class, an attack warship capable of carrying long-range ballistic missiles and was developed to counter the US navy's Los Angeles class subs.

Russia's Interfax News Agency said the Akula differs from older submarines due to its greater stealth capabilities and that it is already the main submarine class employed by the Russian fleet.

"Sending a nuclear-propelled submarine into the Gulf of Mexico-Caribbean region is another manifestation of President (Vladimir) Putin demonstrating that Russia is still a player on the world's political-military stage," Normal Polmar, a naval analyst and submarine warfare specialist, told the newspaper.

There have been no comments from Moscow on the reports as yet.

The reports of the Russian submarine's appearance in US strategic waters came against the backdrop that US President Barack Obama plans to slash $487 billion in the US defense budget over the next 10 years.

The plan has raised questions in the US about whether the country will be able to maintain its military advantage over other nations in the future.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/727230.shtml

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August 16th, 2012, 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
During the early 90's I was stationed in Gitmo, and actually loved it. Not a 1/4 mile off shore was the Cayman Trench which is one of the deepest if not THE deepest trench in the world. It is a virtual highway for deep submersibles, and could be the entrance point.

Having said that, I remember a story while I was on AD that touted the Sea Wolf II class Attack submarine of the U.S. Navy, it used technologies developed in accordance with Mitsubishi or some other Japanese company to make the sub virutally soundless in the water. Shortly thereafter, Mitsubishi (or whichever Japanese co.) was caught selling the same technology to the Russians. The article even showed a picture of a current Russian Attack submarine in dry dock, being retrofitted with the new technology.

Obviously the trick is for us to counteract their advantage with the more expensive version because the Communist couldn't keep the pace with their stalled, failed economy. NOW, the roles have been reversed, Russia booms with Oil from contracts with Syria and Iran, while we struggle due to strangulating regulations imposed especially during the last 3 1/2 years. I'm not saying it's totally Obama's fault, but if someone wanted to destroy a nation, he's going about it the right way!!!

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


August 16th, 2012, 2:19 pm
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
WarEr4Christ wrote:
During the early 90's I was stationed in Gitmo, and actually loved it. Not a 1/4 mile off shore was the Cayman Trench which is one of the deepest if not THE deepest trench in the world. It is a virtual highway for deep submersibles, and could be the entrance point.

Having said that, I remember a story while I was on AD that touted the Sea Wolf II class Attack submarine of the U.S. Navy, it used technologies developed in accordance with Mitsubishi or some other Japanese company to make the sub virutally soundless in the water. Shortly thereafter, Mitsubishi (or whichever Japanese co.) was caught selling the same technology to the Russians. The article even showed a picture of a current Russian Attack submarine in dry dock, being retrofitted with the new technology.

Obviously the trick is for us to counteract their advantage with the more expensive version because the Communist couldn't keep the pace with their stalled, failed economy. NOW, the roles have been reversed, Russia booms with Oil from contracts with Syria and Iran, while we struggle due to strangulating regulations imposed especially during the last 3 1/2 years. I'm not saying it's totally Obama's fault, but if someone wanted to destroy a nation, he's going about it the right way!!!


Please list the regulations. I don't know what you're referring to there - so I'd like to hear more detail.

Submarines? So... "20th Century"... do we really doubt that our satelites know where every single Soviet ship is located at all times?


August 16th, 2012, 5:22 pm
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
I.E. wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
During the early 90's I was stationed in Gitmo, and actually loved it. Not a 1/4 mile off shore was the Cayman Trench which is one of the deepest if not THE deepest trench in the world. It is a virtual highway for deep submersibles, and could be the entrance point.

Having said that, I remember a story while I was on AD that touted the Sea Wolf II class Attack submarine of the U.S. Navy, it used technologies developed in accordance with Mitsubishi or some other Japanese company to make the sub virutally soundless in the water. Shortly thereafter, Mitsubishi (or whichever Japanese co.) was caught selling the same technology to the Russians. The article even showed a picture of a current Russian Attack submarine in dry dock, being retrofitted with the new technology.

Obviously the trick is for us to counteract their advantage with the more expensive version because the Communist couldn't keep the pace with their stalled, failed economy. NOW, the roles have been reversed, Russia booms with Oil from contracts with Syria and Iran, while we struggle due to strangulating regulations imposed especially during the last 3 1/2 years. I'm not saying it's totally Obama's fault, but if someone wanted to destroy a nation, he's going about it the right way!!!


Please list the regulations. I don't know what you're referring to there - so I'd like to hear more detail.

Submarines? So... "20th Century"... do we really doubt that our satelites know where every single Soviet ship is located at all times?


Not that i believe that they have any subs off of our shores, BUT, yes I do belive they can hide subs and such from us. if we can hide ours frm them they can hide theirs from us. Hell they can park a bunch under the ice caps and we wouldn't haver a clue.

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August 16th, 2012, 5:38 pm
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
IE, I may have a problem with my vocabulary here....

I was thinking of the regulations put on American Fossil fuels that eliminate the right for us to pursue our own resources on Federal lands, THANK GOD for private land ownership. Then I was thinking about how American offshore resource futures were "suspended" only to be bought up by Brazil, who we will now purchase oil from. So we won't drill our own oil, but you can drill in our yard, and we'll buy it from you. These were the regulations that I was thinking on.... but I do believe there are others, but maybe it is more in line with Corporate Taxation that is severly limiting the ability of businesses to turn a profit therefore chasing them away.

I also heard an interesting statistic today.

Obama and his crew are fully in support of the OWS crowd, and they blame the 1% for being greedy, money hungry and yadda, yadda, yadda. So let's see which President actually pursued legal indictments against Wall Street.

Bill Clinton roughly 1000 indictments or attempts at indictments of Wall Street Practices.

George W. Bush 1300 indictments or attempts at indictments of Wall Street Practices.

Barak H. Obama 0, zip, nada, nothing, NO attempts at indciting Wall Street for inappropriate practices. Hmmm, doesn't the government control a lot of what Wall Street does? Isn't the majority of Obama's Cabinet or some of his Presidential Cabinet taken from the legal offices of Wall Street?

In regards to Russia, this cat and mouse went on for decades, always has, probably always will, however, they now have the upper hand because they aren't strangled by Economic Policies especially in the realm of Fossil Fuels. We are, and that is what drives our economy... I can see it, and I'm a nobody, there are people much smarter than myself that are destroying this control by controling us to death. Just sayin! But you're probably not going to agree.

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August 16th, 2012, 9:04 pm
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
Having worked with many, many officers (commanders, captains, etc) from the navy nukes, I'm throwing up the BS flag. I almost feel sorry for anyone who believes this dribble.

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August 17th, 2012, 1:23 am
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
Believes what, that a Russian Sub went undetected? Just clarifying....

And I stated that it was a concern of mine, by looking at the state of affairs with our leadership. Obviously one bad apple can ruin the whole barrel, but in looking at the examples from the top down, you can clearly see, how there has been a severe lack in integrity, and ethics amongst SOME in leadership. It started with the most ethical, and transparent, is just filtering down is all.

To your point, I see it as a one sided story because who's to say that our Navy didn't "catch" them and just leave them alone. I mean the journalist is quoting the Russians is he not?

The story could happen, might have happened, but in the end, does it really matter unless ships are being sunk, or missles are in bound to the Continental USA?

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


August 17th, 2012, 9:04 am
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
WarEr4Christ wrote:
IE, I may have a problem with my vocabulary here....

I was thinking of the regulations put on American Fossil fuels that eliminate the right for us to pursue our own resources on Federal lands, THANK GOD for private land ownership. Then I was thinking about how American offshore resource futures were "suspended" only to be bought up by Brazil, who we will now purchase oil from. So we won't drill our own oil, but you can drill in our yard, and we'll buy it from you. These were the regulations that I was thinking on.... but I do believe there are others, but maybe it is more in line with Corporate Taxation that is severly limiting the ability of businesses to turn a profit therefore chasing them away.

I also heard an interesting statistic today.

Obama and his crew are fully in support of the OWS crowd, and they blame the 1% for being greedy, money hungry and yadda, yadda, yadda. So let's see which President actually pursued legal indictments against Wall Street.

Bill Clinton roughly 1000 indictments or attempts at indictments of Wall Street Practices.

George W. Bush 1300 indictments or attempts at indictments of Wall Street Practices.

Barak H. Obama 0, zip, nada, nothing, NO attempts at indciting Wall Street for inappropriate practices. Hmmm, doesn't the government control a lot of what Wall Street does? Isn't the majority of Obama's Cabinet or some of his Presidential Cabinet taken from the legal offices of Wall Street?

In regards to Russia, this cat and mouse went on for decades, always has, probably always will, however, they now have the upper hand because they aren't strangled by Economic Policies especially in the realm of Fossil Fuels. We are, and that is what drives our economy... I can see it, and I'm a nobody, there are people much smarter than myself that are destroying this control by controling us to death. Just sayin! But you're probably not going to agree.


I think if you're going to accuse a leader of severe actions to harm commerce, you should be able to back up what you say with data - citing specific regulations and the impact. You really need to start questioning your sources. If they're credible, then they can survive the scrutiny? No?


August 18th, 2012, 1:03 am
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
You are correct but i didnt state anything that isnt already known publicly. Obama has put the moratorium on off shore drilling, or canceled our off shore drilling futures and then turned around and allowed Brazil to drill in an area we "own", stating that we'd buy the oil from them. I would hazzard to guess that Obama sees the Caribbean as belonging to no one, especially since it's probably international waters, so therefore Brazil has every right to do it. However, NOT ALLOWING American companies to pursue the same oil in the same area, but cutting a deal with a foreign country that owes us so much, or at least used to, until Clinton forgave the debt is assanine.

So without being argumentative, the very conditions I spoke of are already known in the public arena and need not be posted as it already has throughout the media.

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August 18th, 2012, 8:51 am
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
WarEr4Christ wrote:
The very conditions I spoke of are already known in the public arena and need not be posted as it already has throughout the media.


That's a bullcrap response, in my opinion.... so "I don't feel like I have to defend what I say, because you can find somebody out there that will say the same thing"... that's an adequate response in your mind? Someone can say whatever they want in the media & you believe it because you simply want to?

If that is the case, how do you expect to have any credibility with people who you interact with? I think it is fair to say that you are not interested in truth, facts, or fairness.


August 20th, 2012, 1:16 pm
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Post Re: Undetected Russian Submarine in the Caribbean
Really, so me reciting the same information that I heard from an indepent source, is bull crap? Is the information not out there? Or would you rather shoot the messenger? That's what you're really saying. You'd much rather go after, and invalidate the source by which I came across the info.

Here's one for you:

http://energytomorrow.org/energy/offsho ... #/type/all

Here's a wallstreet one for you:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... stice.html

aw heck I'll give you two:

http://www.docudharma.com/diary/30384/t ... task-force

But just to humor you, I heard much of what I said from the reporter who was filling in for Rush this past week. So I'm sure you will spew all kinds of caustic remarks about it, but in the end it's only your opinion and well that doesn't carry very much weight in gold either. But for the record neither does mine...

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


August 20th, 2012, 1:44 pm
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