View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently September 18th, 2014, 11:51 pm



Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must 
Author Message
Post Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
Did anyone else find it ridiculous that FL was "called" when there were still people in line at the polls? The ballot was allegedly something like 9 pages, making voting cumbersome and lines long, and though the polls closed at 7 or 8 there were still people in line voting when the State was handed to Barak Obama. A similar story was told in Ohio. Polls closed in Ohio at 7:30pm, but there were still people in line casting votes at 9-10:00pm due to lines.

What's worse, by the time 10pm rolled along some networks already gave the election to Obama, making voting in States like Hawaii, Alaska, Washington, California, and Oregon literally superfluous. That's ridiculous.

IMO a State shouldn't be handed to a candidate AT LEAST until the electorate of that state has stopped voting. It's akin to announcing the death of a victim on the news before the family has been notified. It's just wrong. It literally disenfranchises hundreds of thousands of people and tells the "go home, your vote doesn't count."

What else is troublesome is the popular vote vs. the electoral college vote. It didn't happen last night, but it seems pretty ridiculous that it can happen. Dismembering the electoral college would stop the media from having so much influence and "calling" the election while literally millions of people still had the opportunity to vote.

Not to mention that Barack Obama received only 2% more of the popular vote than did Mitt Romney, but he won 30% more electoral college votes. That disparity his huge. What's worse is, the media is making a big deal about winning 300+ electoral college votes, stating that Obama now has a "referendum" of Liberal Policy, and that's they way the country is moving. Really? 2% gives you a "referendum" to do whatever you want? Ridiculous.


November 7th, 2012, 3:53 pm
Fired Head Coach (0-16 record)
User avatar

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Posts: 2286
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Did anyone else find it ridiculous that FL was "called" when there were still people in line at the polls? The ballot was allegedly something like 9 pages, making voting cumbersome and lines long, and though the polls closed at 7 or 8 there were still people in line voting when the State was handed to Barak Obama. A similar story was told in Ohio. Polls closed in Ohio at 7:30pm, but there were still people in line casting votes at 9-10:00pm due to lines.

What's worse, by the time 10pm rolled along some networks already gave the election to Obama, making voting in States like Hawaii, Alaska, Washington, California, and Oregon literally superfluous. That's ridiculous.

IMO a State shouldn't be handed to a candidate AT LEAST until the electorate of that state has stopped voting. It's akin to announcing the death of a victim on the news before the family has been notified. It's just wrong. It literally disenfranchises hundreds of thousands of people and tells the "go home, your vote doesn't count."

What else is troublesome is the popular vote vs. the electoral college vote. It didn't happen last night, but it seems pretty ridiculous that it can happen. Dismembering the electoral college would stop the media from having so much influence and "calling" the election while literally millions of people still had the opportunity to vote.

Not to mention that Barack Obama received only 2% more of the popular vote than did Mitt Romney, but he won 30% more electoral college votes. That disparity his huge. What's worse is, the media is making a big deal about winning 300+ electoral college votes, stating that Obama now has a "referendum" of Liberal Policy, and that's they way the country is moving. Really? 2% gives you a "referendum" to do whatever you want? Ridiculous.


It was called because the remaining votes were in overwhelmingly democratic Miami Dade. The long lines were the brainchildren of voter suppression gurus in the GOP. Careful what you wish for.

_________________
Driver of the Jim Caldwell bandwagon. Climb aboard.


November 7th, 2012, 4:05 pm
Profile
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
thelomasbrowns wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Did anyone else find it ridiculous that FL was "called" when there were still people in line at the polls? The ballot was allegedly something like 9 pages, making voting cumbersome and lines long, and though the polls closed at 7 or 8 there were still people in line voting when the State was handed to Barak Obama. A similar story was told in Ohio. Polls closed in Ohio at 7:30pm, but there were still people in line casting votes at 9-10:00pm due to lines.

What's worse, by the time 10pm rolled along some networks already gave the election to Obama, making voting in States like Hawaii, Alaska, Washington, California, and Oregon literally superfluous. That's ridiculous.

IMO a State shouldn't be handed to a candidate AT LEAST until the electorate of that state has stopped voting. It's akin to announcing the death of a victim on the news before the family has been notified. It's just wrong. It literally disenfranchises hundreds of thousands of people and tells the "go home, your vote doesn't count."

What else is troublesome is the popular vote vs. the electoral college vote. It didn't happen last night, but it seems pretty ridiculous that it can happen. Dismembering the electoral college would stop the media from having so much influence and "calling" the election while literally millions of people still had the opportunity to vote.

Not to mention that Barack Obama received only 2% more of the popular vote than did Mitt Romney, but he won 30% more electoral college votes. That disparity his huge. What's worse is, the media is making a big deal about winning 300+ electoral college votes, stating that Obama now has a "referendum" of Liberal Policy, and that's they way the country is moving. Really? 2% gives you a "referendum" to do whatever you want? Ridiculous.


It was called because the remaining votes were in overwhelmingly democratic Miami Dade. The long lines were the brainchildren of voter suppression gurus in the GOP. Careful what you wish for.


You totally miss the point. It doesn't matter if the election was out of reach, or if the state was unwinnable. Announcing the fact disenfranchises the votes still at the polls, and that is wrong on many levels.


November 7th, 2012, 4:08 pm
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3787
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
yes I do think reform is needed. Yes a thousand times over!!!

Why does ALL the states electoral college vote go to one guy when obviously the state is divided. I think the electoral college votes should be more regional and count individually instead of the all or nothing that exsists now.

_________________
2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion


November 7th, 2012, 4:10 pm
Profile
3rd Round Selection

Joined: December 25th, 2005, 6:19 am
Posts: 1188
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
We need to get rid of the electoral college altogether, the president should be chosen 100% by popular vote. The fact that it's actually possible for a candidate to win the popular vote yet lose the election is absolutely inexcusable.

I mean don't get me wrong...thank god Al Gore was never president but technically speaking...he unfortunately should have been.


November 7th, 2012, 4:11 pm
Profile
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
regularjoe12 wrote:
yes I do think reform is needed. Yes a thousand times over!!!

Why does ALL the states electoral college vote go to one guy when obviously the state is divided. I think the electoral college votes should be more regional and count individually instead of the all or nothing that exsists now.



I agree RJ.

This country isn't good at big sweeping changes, regardless if they're a good idea or not. It's not likely that they'll just abolish the EC system, but even if we went to a "proportional vote" system it would be much better. Main and Nebraska do this now. It would be HUGE if other states did this as well. Penn was talking about doing it, and Michigan was actually talking about doing it too (Snyder was a big advocate of it). It would certainly help to even things out and make things more fair.


November 7th, 2012, 4:21 pm
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9450
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
I tried to explain the prez. election to my son.

Troy "So the guy who gets the most votes wins"

Me "not exactly" and you can imagine the rest and how difficult it was too try to explain

Keep things simple America!

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


November 7th, 2012, 4:26 pm
Profile WWW
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12038
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
Agree 100%, there must be reform, sadly tho I fear that no one has the backbone to do it.

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


November 7th, 2012, 4:27 pm
Profile
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3787
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
yes I do think reform is needed. Yes a thousand times over!!!

Why does ALL the states electoral college vote go to one guy when obviously the state is divided. I think the electoral college votes should be more regional and count individually instead of the all or nothing that exsists now.



I agree RJ.

This country isn't good at big sweeping changes, regardless if they're a good idea or not. It's not likely that they'll just abolish the EC system, but even if we went to a "proportional vote" system it would be much better. Main and Nebraska do this now. It would be HUGE if other states did this as well. Penn was talking about doing it, and Michigan was actually talking about doing it too (Snyder was a big advocate of it). It would certainly help to even things out and make things more fair.



It would make me care a lot more about the presidential election, I tell you that! I won't lie, the ONLY reason I voted yersterday was due to the proposals. I KNEW MI would vote Obama. there was no doubt in my mind (or the media's since they called MI by the time 2% of the votes were in). My Pres vote DOES NOT COUNT. plain and simple. and it hasnt since I've been a legal voter....kinda sad really.

_________________
2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion


November 7th, 2012, 4:29 pm
Profile
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1144
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
Re: the electoral college - where were you in 2000, wjb?

As a long time supporter of a more proportional system of government in the UK, I certainly agree that the electoral collage seems an anacronism to me and should be done away with.

With regards to early calling on states, I find that very odd with US politics too. Here, you can't even: report on exit polls; begin counting votes; let alone declare a result, until after all polls are closed. We get our result later in the night than you guys, despite having less votes to count and only one timezone, but I'd rather have a few hours (or even a day's) delay for the sake of a fair process. I can't believe the reporting that goes on in the US on election day whilst people are still yet to vote! Just seems crazy to me.


November 7th, 2012, 6:24 pm
Profile
Fired Head Coach (0-16 record)
User avatar

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Posts: 2286
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
Fact: Republicans have lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 elections.

Oh, and there's this:
Image

_________________
Driver of the Jim Caldwell bandwagon. Climb aboard.


November 8th, 2012, 9:56 am
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2770
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
The electoral college is needed or candidates would only visit high population areas. NY, Cali, Florida, Texas and major cities would have all the political power. You think there's a problem with the common man feeling unwanted/needed now? The electoral college levels the playing field of the states. Small states matter.

The electoral college only needs to have it be proportional based on % of vote. NJ was extremely close, even with the devastation in Republican heavy areas from the storm. But it always goes blue due to the heavy minority and poor population in Camden and Trenton.

You think your vote doesn't count now? If it was strictly popular vote, it wouldn't matter unless you were in NY, Cali, Florida, Texas or one of the major cities. As soon as those were done, the race would be called. It's a faster process than currently.

Getting rid of the electoral college is not a good thing.


November 8th, 2012, 11:13 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9450
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
The Senate already gives small states a huge voice in politics, leveling the playing field. Do we really need to give small states the advantage in 2 of the 3 branches of government?

In addition, who says we are stuck with our current timing issues? Some of this is as outdated as the electorial college. I mean, I understand we needed and extra day (Monday, to vote on a Tuesday) to travel when we relied on horse and carriage but we have made transporation progress since the 1,800s.

We need to modernize our voting practice to meet modern demands, not those of two centuries ago.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


November 8th, 2012, 12:02 pm
Profile WWW
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
UK Lion wrote:
Re: the electoral college - where were you in 2000, wjb?

As a long time supporter of a more proportional system of government in the UK, I certainly agree that the electoral collage seems an anacronism to me and should be done away with.

With regards to early calling on states, I find that very odd with US politics too. Here, you can't even: report on exit polls; begin counting votes; let alone declare a result, until after all polls are closed. We get our result later in the night than you guys, despite having less votes to count and only one timezone, but I'd rather have a few hours (or even a day's) delay for the sake of a fair process. I can't believe the reporting that goes on in the US on election day whilst people are still yet to vote! Just seems crazy to me.



I was championing election reform in 2000 as well UK. It was for different reasons, but I was still all for getting rid of the electoral college system YEARS ago. In 2000 I was all for getting rid of the EC for reasons of stability and predictability. Then we had an entire state, who's fate decided the election, up in the air for months after the election. That's ridiculous, and it makes us look ridiculous on a world scale.

The electoral college was literally put in place to curb "ignorant voters" from electing an incapable president. They are not bound by law to vote as the electorate votes, and I don't know if they've cast their votes yet (no one does, I don't think, we never make an issue of it here, although it technically signifies when the REAL election is won), but until they do NO ONE is president, and ANYONE can be president. Can you imagine the outcry we would get if 35 of them decided that they weren't going to support Obama and were going to vote for Romney? There would literally be riots. So, why have them? Why give them that opportunity?


njroar wrote:
The electoral college is needed or candidates would only visit high population areas. NY, Cali, Florida, Texas and major cities would have all the political power. You think there's a problem with the common man feeling unwanted/needed now? The electoral college levels the playing field of the states. Small states matter.

The electoral college only needs to have it be proportional based on % of vote. NJ was extremely close, even with the devastation in Republican heavy areas from the storm. But it always goes blue due to the heavy minority and poor population in Camden and Trenton.

You think your vote doesn't count now? If it was strictly popular vote, it wouldn't matter unless you were in NY, Cali, Florida, Texas or one of the major cities. As soon as those were done, the race would be called. It's a faster process than currently.

Getting rid of the electoral college is not a good thing.


You couldn't be more wrong. If anything smaller states would get MORE "political power." Right now states like Nevada, ND, SD, Idaho, Wyoming, etc. are totally ignored. Who cares about 2-4 electoral votes in the grand scheme of things? But any small state with a large megalopolis or collection of people (most states have at least some sort of small area with a population of around 1 million). Would now get attention. You would likely see campaigning in Las Vegas Nevada, St. Paul Minnesota Fargo North Dakota, Memphis Tenn, Birmingham Alabama, etc. "College towns" and State Capitals would be mainstays for most campaigns. Sure areas like LA and NY would get tons of attention (probably not as much as you think, seeing that both have the majority of electoral votes now), but candidates would understand that you can't win an election off of those areas alone.

Right now whole states are being ignored because no one cares if they win or lose them. If it came down to collections of populations being the mainstay for politics they would have to seek out every major populated area, even Anchorage Alaska.

And if you think States receive "political power" under the current system, I think you're fooling yourself. In FL Obama only won something like 8 out of 100 counties or something ridiculous, so those 8 counties "bring power" to the State? Somehow I doubt it.

All the current system does is benefits the side with the most infrastructure and money. It allows the guy that's been through the ability to leave his old campaign people in place for four years, stay on the ground, and get a head start. Hell, everyone knows that Obama has been campaigning on the taxpayers dime ever since he got his health care bill passed and it pissed everyone off, why further his advantage by allowing his election staff to be able to study the electoral map and plan his path to victory? Why not force him to earn it? Why not have every vote in this country called, instead of having the election "called" before people are even done voting out west?

To me all of those things just seem... UnAmerican


November 8th, 2012, 4:44 pm
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2770
Post Re: Regardless of the Outcome, Election Reform is a Must
I also said they need to break up the electoral college votes by county. So if 1 county had the most people and they voted one way, X votes would go to who they voted, but the rest would go the other way. Those large areas wouldn't dominate a state. And all those states would get visited and campaigned in. Popular vote is still going to leave certain states out.

The problem isn't the system. The only thing that has changed since it's inception is population and who makes up that population. Just remove the winner take all awarding of electoral votes and you're set.


November 8th, 2012, 11:21 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.