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 Pope Francis Blasts "Cult Of Money" 
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Post Re: Pope Francis Blasts "Cult Of Money"
TheRealWags wrote:
BillySims wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
BillySims wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
To me, it just sounds like he's repeating Jesus' teachings, was Jesus a Communist? dontknow.gif
Communism, as a principle, is not a bad thing. Problem is, Humans get corrupted. And once your leadership, in a Communistic society is corrupted, you won't want to be a member of that society, unless you are in the ruling elite.
Agreed.
Just thinking out loud here, but couldn't a 'new / different' economic system be created that would harness / include the good / best parts of various ones? In other words, a Communistic - Democratic - Capitalistic Hybrid?
Capitalism and Communism are 2 opposite economic systems. It would be impossible to merge them. They try to accomplish different outcomes. You would end up with an economic mess that no-one could fix. And while it might start out as a democracy, once the middle class has disappeared, the ruling elite would become corrupted. Once they become corrupted, there goes your elections. Simply put, you are either going to be a Capitalist or a Communist. You can't be both. While Capitalism isn't all that it's cracked up to be, at least it keeps the middle class in place to keep the wealthy in check. And that prevents the Wealthy from getting too corrupted.
I said "harness / include the good / best parts of various ones".

Why couldn't you take the good of Communism as you state, the principle of it, and combine it with a democratically elected Govt to oversee it? Because they would be elected, they wouldn't be anymore corrupted than what we have now. Or would that be considered Socialism?


Because it WILL go bad. As long as a HUMAN BEING is in charge of the system, it WILL become corrupted. And then you will just end up with Stallinist/Lenonist Communism.


May 20th, 2013, 1:49 pm
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Post Re: Pope Francis Blasts "Cult Of Money"
BillySims wrote:
I think every High School kid in America should have to watch this cartoon before they can graduate High School.

Animal Farm by George Orwell (1954) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGCo5Tva39s


Reposting this. If you have never seen this cartoon. Please dedicate 2 hours and 10 minutes to watch it.

This shows exactly how communism creeps in and takes control and then becomes corrupted.


May 20th, 2013, 1:51 pm
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Post Re: Pope Francis Blasts "Cult Of Money"
BillySims wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Why couldn't you take the good of Communism as you state, the principle of it, and combine it with a democratically elected Govt to oversee it? Because they would be elected, they wouldn't be anymore corrupted than what we have now. Or would that be considered Socialism?
Because it WILL go bad. As long as a HUMAN BEING is in charge of the system, it WILL become corrupted.
Kinda like what we have now, eh? That said, wouldn't humans be involved in any system employed here on Earth?
BillySims wrote:
And then you will just end up with Stallinist/Lenonist Communism.
As opposed to a Corporatocracy / Oligarchy? What makes one better than the other?

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May 20th, 2013, 1:58 pm
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Post Re: Pope Francis Blasts "Cult Of Money"
BillySims wrote:
BillySims wrote:
I think every High School kid in America should have to watch this cartoon before they can graduate High School.

Animal Farm by George Orwell (1954) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGCo5Tva39s


Reposting this. If you have never seen this cartoon. Please dedicate 2 hours and 10 minutes to watch it.

This shows exactly how communism creeps in and takes control and then becomes corrupted.
Do you put as much stock into Orwell's 1984? Because we're living that now.

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May 20th, 2013, 1:59 pm
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Post Re: Pope Francis Blasts "Cult Of Money"
TheRealWags wrote:
BillySims wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Why couldn't you take the good of Communism as you state, the principle of it, and combine it with a democratically elected Govt to oversee it? Because they would be elected, they wouldn't be anymore corrupted than what we have now. Or would that be considered Socialism?
Because it WILL go bad. As long as a HUMAN BEING is in charge of the system, it WILL become corrupted.
Kinda like what we have now, eh? That said, wouldn't humans be involved in any system employed here on Earth?
BillySims wrote:
And then you will just end up with Stallinist/Lenonist Communism.
As opposed to a Corporatocracy / Oligarchy? What makes one better than the other?


Yes, humans run things here on Earth. But, the difference between the 2 systems is that Capitalism allows for the continuation of the middle class. And that middle class usually makes up the vast majority of people. And that keeps things in check as long as elections aren't being fixed.

Any system that allows for the continuation of the middle class is a viable system. Any system that eliminates the middle class is just plain bad. Every time a government has eliminated the middle class, bad things have happened. I don't know how to be any clearer about this. It's all about the middle class. If you have one, you still have hope as a society.


May 20th, 2013, 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Pope Francis Blasts "Cult Of Money"
TheRealWags wrote:
BillySims wrote:
BillySims wrote:
I think every High School kid in America should have to watch this cartoon before they can graduate High School.

Animal Farm by George Orwell (1954) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGCo5Tva39s


Reposting this. If you have never seen this cartoon. Please dedicate 2 hours and 10 minutes to watch it.

This shows exactly how communism creeps in and takes control and then becomes corrupted.
Do you put as much stock into Orwell's 1984? Because we're living that now.


Pretty much, yeah. The technology wasn't available for that to become reality by 1984. But, it is present now. Have you ever wondered about how you XBox with connect works? It is watching your room for movement. HUMMMMMM. What else is it watching?

Edited to add: I am also contending that there is something more to that whole V chip debate that raged for so long that was told to the public.


May 20th, 2013, 2:16 pm
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Post Re: Pope Francis Blasts "Cult Of Money"
As a former Catholic, I find it hard to take his statement seriously. With all the money, property and expensive trappings that exist around the world that are controlled, owned or run by the Catholic Church, he and the church are as guilty as anyone of being guilty as charged. If the Pope and Catholic Church are so worried and concerned over the people idolizing money, maybe they should start practicing what they preach.

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June 3rd, 2013, 3:11 pm
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Post Re: Pope Francis Blasts "Cult Of Money"
m2karateman wrote:
As a former Catholic, I find it hard to take his statement seriously. With all the money, property and expensive trappings that exist around the world that are controlled, owned or run by the Catholic Church, he and the church are as guilty as anyone of being guilty as charged. If the Pope and Catholic Church are so worried and concerned over the people idolizing money, maybe they should start practicing what they preach.

I'm no Catholic apologist. Quite the opposite. I was raised Catholic and have rejected pretty much all religion. But this pope has been practicing what he preaches. He refused to live in the luxury papal apartment, instead living in what has been described as a normal apartment (as normal as a pope can have). He chose to wear a simple wooden cross around his neck (I realize this is symbolic, but it is consistent). Also, from what I understand he has been a champion of the poor and has lived his entire life in this way.

My point is that he has been consistent (from what I know) throughout his entire life as someone who believes he should champion the poor and shun luxuries. I agree with you that the church as a whole has a long way to go to get back to it's mission, but he does seem to be taking the right steps so far. Hopefully he keeps it up.

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June 3rd, 2013, 11:24 pm
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