View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently September 1st, 2014, 10:31 am



Reply to topic  [ 137 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 Planet X: discussion 
Author Message
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Sorry guys, it's got to be one at a time.

The question that I had concerned the animosity you had towards the Church, or church believers based around the process of how your children came into being. If I remember the conversation, the church took a stand that was troublesome in my perspective, and did not coincide with your desires. Having said that, the "potential" is/was there for an injury to your "faith" because of how that situation affected you. Could this be true? Could you have an issue with the Church, and God for the difficulties that you and your wife had with that process? I'm not saying it's true, I'm asking if it's a possibility.

Wags: I'm sorry but you're cherry picking a little bit. Yes I can become myopic and reactionary, who among us does not? Njroar raised a decent point that helped me to see it from a different perspective and I appreciate that. However, going back to the first few pages of this very thread, I showed evidence (albeit Scriptural) of how the different lines of people came to be. The line of Ham, ultimately became the Egyptian and other nations around it, and so on the other two brothers. The Jews who are very detailed in their record keeping of family lineage, because of their religious belief system have that well documented. So as I said then; these other religions that carry the same story as the Jesus story and other similarities, stem from the same original line. SO, if the telephone game is in effect here, can it not be said that the same story is passed on from family to family, being embellished along the way? Did you ever respond to that Wags? I don't recall seeing it. I'm interested in your thoughts about this genealogy.

I am not your normal, run of the mill "believer" as you suggest. You do not have the authority to make that claim, mainly because we do not interact outside of the chat rooms. You have my opinions that you can glean perspectives, and thoughts from, but you're also missing a bunch of other evidence. Many Christians are traditionalists, and staunch defenders of the faith. I choose not to defend my faith in that context, but prefer to let Jesus fight His own battles. Instead, I choose to follow the example of Jesus by making a friend, being a friend, and leading a friend to Christ. I don't always do it right, or well, and that's where I hope for grace and mercy. I have not disrespected another religion, I've regurgitated known facts about these other religions. Muhammad, Buddha, and even the Catholic Church require certain behaviors to obtain certain things. I may not agree with them, but I'm not going to grab my Bible and start beating them with it. Instead, I would prefer to engage in discussion and learning, and by demonstrating love in a tangible way, illustrate how I'm different. Sadly, we don't have that availability because of locations. I would much rather this conversation happen in person over drinks, so that we could interact in a more friendly manner, but that's not available and "tones" are inferred.

I have a little experience with the "pagan" belief systems but not much. I will say that I have had more experience with evil, and the Spiritual, not to say that these are one in the same, but saying that I've seen, and been involved in some spiritual warfare, and there is a DEFINITE enemy on a level we can not document, or quantify. I want you to know that I do not belittle, or ridicule others and there belief systems. I may not agree, but I'm not going to pick a fight with them. I've seen Christians do that first hand with a Muslim, and it broke my heart. I've also been "shunned" by a Christian organization, because I left their belief system, and that was troubling at the time. The only thing I can say is that I am prone to sin and make mistakes, and I try very hard to engage and be transparent about my beliefs. That does not make yours less important, or irrelevant, just different. I'm passionate, and stubborn about my beliefs because that is how I'm wired, but blind is not an accurate statement, because I've walked both sides of the fence and have a sordid testimony of who I used to be, and who I am now because of Jesus.

My hope is that that people choose to continue to engage because, in spite of all my faults, I do my best to be engaging, and transparent, but most of all I try to love with my whole heart. Again, I don't always get it right, as you've reminded me, but I do try.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


April 21st, 2014, 5:13 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9400
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarEr4Christ wrote:
The question that I had concerned the animosity you had towards the Church, or church believers based around the process of how your children came into being. If I remember the conversation, the church took a stand that was troublesome in my perspective, and did not coincide with your desires. Having said that, the "potential" is/was there for an injury to your "faith" because of how that situation affected you. Could this be true? Could you have an issue with the Church, and God for the difficulties that you and your wife had with that process? I'm not saying it's true, I'm asking if it's a possibility.


Not at all, that whole process had to do with my wife and the church. I had long ago come to my decisions about God/Jesus, that was an intellectual journey. It did sadden me to see how they treated my wife and the effect it had on her when she told them she needed in vetro fertilization to become pregnant. But I've come to expect things like that from the church and it certainly doesn't reflect on most of the followers or the faith itself, it is more institutional.

BTW - I don't discuss faith with my wife like we do at this board, she was brought up in the Catholic faith and we have baptized our boys and introduced them to that faith, but also let them know there are lots of belief systems out there as well.

Again, I don't hold animosity towards faith or believers for the behavior of the church. That would be like saying I'm mad at people who work at GM for the recent issues that have surfaced. Everyone I know who works at or has worked at GM has been a very good person, this was an organizational issue and a decision made at the top.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


April 21st, 2014, 5:50 pm
Profile WWW
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2631
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Quote:
BTW - I don't discuss faith with my wife like we do at this board, she was brought up in the Catholic faith and we have baptized our boys and introduced them to that faith, but also let them know there are lots of belief systems out there as well.


Somewhat of a thread derail, but I find this fascinating.

All of my relationships have been with nonbelievers -- I simply couldn't imagine being with someone who had faith. I have friends that are religious (none devout) but for anyone that I was considering spending the better part of my life with, raising children, sleeping next to at night etc. I could never even -- for half a second -- consider someone religious.


April 21st, 2014, 6:08 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Blueskies,

Do you think you could have a relationship/friendship with a person who was a strong believer? I have several friends who are not believers, in fact, one of my biggest "prayer targets" is my platoon sergeant. Since day one, we were like brothers, and although distance has slowed the friendship down, I do not force my beliefs upon him. I love him like a brother, and choose to associate with him, because of him. I still pray for him, like I do many of you, and we talk about anything and everything, but when there are lines that I can't cross, I don't cross them and there's no issue.

Pablo,
Thank you for sharing that, because I could see a potential "injury" there and I was curious as to whether or not you were affected in this way. As I was telling Wags, I am really not trying to piss you guys off. I enjoy the conversations because it makes me look at myself realistically, plus it challenges me to understand why I believe as I do. Just as you've weighed Christianity and decided that it isn't for you, I have experienced life outside of Christianity and realized that I don't want it. As I said, I've experienced the darkness through Spiritual conflict, and realize that I want/need the coverage of Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. By living and following in His footsteps, I am walking and doing as I understand He does. It is my hope that this will have the ripple affect upon those I meet, blessing them, not because I want anything from them, but because I choose to love them in Jesus name. Thanks for answering!!!

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


April 21st, 2014, 7:01 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2631
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Quote:
Do you think you could have a relationship/friendship with a person who was a strong believer?


I think so. I'm not sure such a person could be my best friend -- I doubt our interests would overlap to a tremendous extent -- but that wouldn't be a problem.

But a spouse/long-term relationship? No way. I think you strive for maximum compatibility (similar interests, similar goals, similar aspirations) and faith/no faith would obviously have an enormous impact on that.


April 21st, 2014, 7:52 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Yeah I understand the spouse/girlfriend scenario. That's definitely being unequally yoked, and you wind up pulling against each other.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


April 21st, 2014, 8:10 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9400
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Yeah I understand the spouse/girlfriend scenario. That's definitely being unequally yoked, and you wind up pulling against each other.


Why? My wife and I don't "pull against each other". In fact, quite the opposite. Actually, we both believe in raising our kids in a strong learning environment where they are taught to actually think for themselves rather than being force feed what one or both of us "believe".

They have been exposed to her faith through their baptism, preschool, etc. They have been exposed to my beliefs on the subject through the thoughtful questions they have asked and truthful answers they have been given. We have made it clear it is up for them to decide in what they want to believe and are taking that at a very slow pace. They get to choose each week if they want to go church or not. Most often, a 5/6 year-old has no interest in sitting for an hour on a hard wooden pew and listening to a boring sermon - nor do we believe they should be forced to do so. Once in awhile, they decide they want to go and surprise us.

We don't allow faith/beliefs to define us as individuals, certainly not as a family. Family comes first, period, and we both agree on that which makes everything else fall nicely into place. Neither one us believe imposing our own thoughts/beliefs on our children is the right way to raise a child. Give them the tools, exposure and confidence to make their own choices in life is a philosophy we share. We see so many parents trying to force their ways onto their kids or live vicariously to correct their own faults - we see that as destructive parenting. So many kids and young adults can't think for themselves, that is a real shame.

When you don't put family first and before everything is when the "yokes" start to pull apart.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


April 22nd, 2014, 10:40 am
Profile WWW
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Sorry, that wasn't meant to sound as negative as it might have....

In your situation, both of you have come to an agreement and you both work towards that vision. However, if both parties are not in agreement, then you have the pulling against each other. For example: In the boyfriend girlfriend scenario, if the boy is wanting intercourse and it's against the girls beliefs and she says no, do you think he's going to stick around? He might, but he also might have a friend with benefits on the side, unless they've come to an agreement. Anything is possible in that scenario, it's up to those involved.

My statement is not the be all to end all, it goes back to what I said about being up to those involved.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


April 22nd, 2014, 10:48 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9400
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Sorry, that wasn't meant to sound as negative as it might have....

In your situation, both of you have come to an agreement and you both work towards that vision. However, if both parties are not in agreement, then you have the pulling against each other. For example: In the boyfriend girlfriend scenario, if the boy is wanting intercourse and it's against the girls beliefs and she says no, do you think he's going to stick around? He might, but he also might have a friend with benefits on the side, unless they've come to an agreement. Anything is possible in that scenario, it's up to those involved.

My statement is not the be all to end all, it goes back to what I said about being up to those involved.


I understood what you said, and in many cases you are correct. Then again, in most cases I know the couples go into a marriage and share the same basic faiths, but they really never discuss things like how they plan on raising children, what their real goals in life are, etc., before putting their rings on. Having the same faith helps, but it is a small part of the overall equation and having real conversation beforehand is much more critical.

At that point, the yokes on them! :lol:

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


April 22nd, 2014, 11:10 am
Profile WWW
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
You are correct, but that goes back to the communication between the two people. That's where the basis of all relationships starts isn't it?

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


April 22nd, 2014, 12:39 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9400
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarEr4Christ wrote:
You are correct, but that goes back to the communication between the two people. That's where the basis of all relationships starts isn't it?


Absolutely!

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


April 22nd, 2014, 1:03 pm
Profile WWW
Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pm
Posts: 408
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Hi all... hope you're enjoying the offseason.

Some comments:

1- The "God time" vs "Man time" discussion is really pretty nonsensical. It doesn't matter what has been translated from amateur bronze age writers ... what we absolutely know, is that IF there was a God, HIS perspective of time would be in light-years. If people don't understand the immensity of our universe and the scale that God would need to be working on... then watch Cosmos for a primer (it is awesome).

2 - The entire discussion about a dark planet/star in our solar systems is being based on naïve, historically clueless, and close-minded positions ... such as "the US is the only country with a space agency, or scientists", or "we humans have only understood the forces of gravity in recent times". This is just simply nonsense, folks. There are lots of independent space agencies on our planet that are not under the influence of the feared US government (lol). And we have known about gravitational forces between planets and stars for... hundreds of years!

Bottom line: There is no large mass (with gravitational force) in our solar system. Scientists can identify planets in far away solar systems, by the gravitational influence they have on their stars. There is zero - zero, folks - question that any sizeable mass/object in our solar system would be identified not only by scientists - but likely by high school students. Seriously.

It is well known that there are dark, rogue planets "out there" in space ... but there is not one in our solar system. And if there WAS one that came through at one point, it was not captured into an orbit by Sol's gravitation... because we would know because of the impact ON Sol.

3 - Every single living thing with DNA is related. It isn't just humans. We're related to plants, and every single thing on the planet that has DNA. It is just a plain fact... not a guess or faith or belief.

4 - Trying to identify a trend from 20 years of earthquake data is absurd, and indicates a lack of perspective about time and the age and history of the Earth.

5 - I don't know why I come back here and read/post in these threads that try to mix religion with science. Especially when (like I said) translated bronze age stories are quoted as some kind of a credible reference to explain the universe or predict the future. It must be because I find it kind of funny how people can be presented with information, but just let it pass in and out of their heads with zero influence if it doesn't fit with their world view. Keep in mind these "world views" (religions positions) people have are is almost always purely accidental and arbitrary - simply a function of where people grow up geographically, their culture, and their parents. I imagine a parallel universe where W4C is a devout Muslim academic, arguing that his position must be correct, because the Koran says so - and after all, the Muslim world several thousand years ago was the cradle of science.

6 - Pablo - I totally get your relationship with your wife, wrt religion. Although most people probably wouldn't admit it, in every couple exists two people with differing views on religion, the meaning of life, etc. If they clearly love each other, and can constructively co-exist with the others' belief system ... it doesn't matter.


June 3rd, 2014, 10:46 am
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2631
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
lol wut?

Light years is a measure of distance, not of time.


June 3rd, 2014, 10:52 am
Profile
Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pm
Posts: 408
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Blueskies wrote:
lol wut?

Light years is a measure of distance, not of time.


spacetime


June 3rd, 2014, 10:59 am
Profile
Online
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2748
Post Re: Planet X: discussion
It's a measure of distance, but by calculating the distance and how it relates to our time, you can form a translation of how much time passes. Physics for the win.


June 3rd, 2014, 12:23 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 137 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.