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 Planet X: discussion 
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
I don't usually post in these discussion because they usually turn into nasty religion based arguments that I'd rather avoid.

But here's a couple interesting questions for all of you, related to Fermi's Paradox.

1. What is to say that we haven't run into alien life on this planet? Is it possible that in the early stages of Earth's formation, previous to human inhabitance, that some species not native to this planet arrived via a number of different ways? And that over the years since then has simply adapted to this planet?

2. What would the human race do if we found out, without any doubt, that intelligent life did exist on other planets and they were capable of reaching this planet? What if we found out that they were FAR more advanced than us?

I recall a line from the movie "Men in Black" where Tommy Lee Jones tells Will Smith, "A person is smart, but people are stupid". A very, very true statement. And individual is far more likely to be able to process and handle that situation rationally. Tell it to a large group, and if just one person overreacts, the rest seem to follow suit. Mob mentality at its finest.

What would the results be? Would humans bond together to act like a 'global community'? Or would mankind lose their collective minds and start raping and pillaging each other in a vain attempt to somehow gain the upper hand?


Sorry, that was more than a couple questions.....

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June 13th, 2014, 3:30 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
rao wrote:
A case could easily be made that civilizations that advanced wouldn't be aggressive in any way. We really would offer nothing more than raw resources in comparison of tech and like Blueskies said it would probably just make more sense for them to mine an empty planet. That even ignores the fact our world could just be totally toxic to this other species and something like Mars could be what they are actually looking for instead.


I always laugh when I see the 'advanced civilizations wouldn't be that violent' remark.

If you look at Earth's history, the most violent cultures have often been the most advanced, and typically the ones who have brought with them the greatest advances in technology. Let's face facts, war has created more technological advancements than most anything else in human history. Not saying it would be like that for civilizations that may exist on other planets. But from our limited perspective, it is the most logical view point.

I also look at it this way, if an advanced group of beings who weren't violent were travelling throughout the universe, with that level of technology they could observe our planet and come to know how violent humans truly are. They would be more inclined to leave than to try and land here.

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June 13th, 2014, 3:40 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
In light of this information posted 6 hours ago by CALTECH, and ABC News, I'm going to post a link and encourage everyone to revisit the previous pages to see what their opinions might be now.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/01/ ... lar-system

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/01/ ... ar-system/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... Pluto.html

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January 20th, 2016, 4:52 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Huh, it's been silent in here, I'd of thought you science guys would be tearing this up...

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January 21st, 2016, 2:06 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Huh, it's been silent in here, I'd of thought you science guys would be tearing this up...


I read the first article. Interesting stuff. I would suggest that it is not an object from our Solar System though. Our Solar System resides in a neighborhood where the Milky Way is eating another galaxy. As matter of fact, there is a group of scientists that believe our solar system came from this other Gallaxy. (Sagittarius Dwarf). They say that is why our solar system is positioned such that we can see the disc of the Milky Way. Think of this: if you lived in a house with no windows, and you never ventured outside. How would you know what your house looked like? But, yet, we know what the Milky Way looks like. Anyway, this Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy does 1 complete rotation roughly, every 16,000 years.


January 21st, 2016, 2:49 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Thanks Billy,

I was going through some of the original posts from my friend Steve, whom I brought in to this discussion, and from others. It was amazing to go back and read the records of those who thought and stated that he was full of crap, and then CalTech actually refuted NASA's statement that Planet X is just a "conspiracy theory."
It's a small vindication, but it's also good reading too.

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January 21st, 2016, 5:58 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Dude, what are you even talking about?

There might be a ninth planet. But everything else in this topic is still nonsense. It's not coming to end the world. It doesn't orbit every 300 years. It's not bigger than Jupiter -- considerably smaller, actually. NASA wasn't lying about it, and there isn't some massive government conspiracy to put us all in internment camps.


January 22nd, 2016, 1:13 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Actually, NASA did say that it was a huge "Conspiracy Theory" and that there was "No such thing as Planet X." Then in the very BRIEF review that I did of the initial pages, there was much the same attitude from those on this board, and then a couple of days happened and CalTech said, "um, excuse me there is...."

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January 22nd, 2016, 5:03 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
No one said that another planet absolutely could not exist.

They said that the planet that fits the criteria described by the conspiracy theorists could not exist.

And indeed, this new planet does not fit that criteria. Not at all. If you follow the links you posted, you'll see that the proposed orbit for this planet does not come anywhere near earth. At its closest point, it orbits outside the Kuiper belt, which is like the distant solar system ice asteroid belt near Pluto.

More generally, I find it simply infuriating that you'll use scientific reasoning and discoveries when it fits your inane ideas, but reject outright for no particular reason any that do not.


January 22nd, 2016, 5:18 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Huh, it's been silent in here, I'd of thought you science guys would be tearing this up...


Because based on the descriptions of this planet it isn't close to the one you proposed. Not much to discuss here. Still searching for your planet I guess, honestly, sounds much more like a comet than a planet considering the description and orbit it must be on.

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January 22nd, 2016, 6:15 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
That's an interesting perspective of Pablo, but for the record in not continuing to look for a mystery planet. Since I've come back on, I revisited this thread page, and in light of new info, I revisited old threads. You perspective or idea about a comet is an interesting one because the Bible says that there is a comet inbound called Wormwood. I must admit, I'm not familiar with that prophecy, I've just heard of it before. I'll see if I can find some stuff and link it here.

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January 22nd, 2016, 9:34 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarEr4Christ wrote:
That's an interesting perspective of Pablo, but for the record in not continuing to look for a mystery planet. Since I've come back on, I revisited this thread page, and in light of new info, I revisited old threads. You perspective or idea about a comet is an interesting one because the Bible says that there is a comet inbound called Wormwood. I must admit, I'm not familiar with that prophecy, I've just heard of it before. I'll see if I can find some stuff and link it here.



WarEr, the new links are interesting, but didn't prove anything that Steve lectured about. I can't say discussed, because he said his way was fact, and any objections to it were foolish and wrong. And nothing he posted was fact, but speculation or theories (not scientific theory) by trying to fit what little fact there is to fit his idea and belief. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's not science and not provable by science if you take that path. That's why no scientist would try to prove that theory, because it's not based around a testable hypothesis.

All those links would do, would be to create a new way to shape the argument and use real science to try to paint the picture. Saying this and this show that, so the next step would be X.. is how science would operate. Steve tended to say this and this show that, so it's reasonable to believe that Y is fact which means X is true. And that is pseudoscience and is why people will consider it something to gloss over and toss it in with conspiracy theories.

90% of our oceans are unexplored, so put the mysteries of the universe into that perspective and you'll see that unknowns allow for a lot of leading toward possibilities that you just can't make the leap to yet. Using the name PlanetX for their discoveries doesn't automatically make Steve's interpretations of his PlanetX viable. Just like the Nittany Lions having a good season doesn't mean the Detroit Lions would have a good season also.

There is no speculation in scientific outcomes. Only in the search for something to test. The testing and proving are science. Speculation is in the research realm. And all the previous 'research" in this thread isn't a testable or provable step, so it's not science.

Hope that clears up why most haven't seen a need to delve back into it.


January 23rd, 2016, 12:39 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
pardon me i was looking for the like button. It does clear it up. Steve went to high school with my younger brother and claims to have some autistic tendencies. I can't say that I know him personally, and he does have some quirks. Having said that, I've found him to be passionate and thorough in researching topics, and thought it would be interesting to bring his views over here. So many of you are science minded that I thought there'd be some good banter back and forth. But obviously, he took his ball and went home.

Concerning Wormwood:

Rev. 8:10-11
10 The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— 11 the name of the star is Wormwood.[a] A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.

Concerning Planet X (returning to Steve Ciccolanti and Discovery Ministries)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc4w7U0KoMk

(I've watched this video and admit that much of what he says is pretty extreme, but the only thing that I can say to this is that time will prove it out. Whether Steve C. is correct, or Christianity is correct, time will have to prove it out. I only hope and pray that these conversations and discussions that we've had will jog in your memory at the appointed time, and you'll be moved to accept Jesus' offer of eternal life and relationship.)

Here's another from a Christian source:
http://www.cogwriter.com/news/prophecy/ ... -prophecy/

I'm trying to find some references OUTSIDE of Christianity via google.
best i could find via google, not definitive sorry. I welcome others input...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormwood_(Bible)


I don't wish to obtain the name of "doomsday prophet" so I'm going to bow out of this conversation. I'm not thorough enough in Science to stand against discussion and I don't want to insult you, or your intelligence by trying to banter outside my capabilities. But like Billy said, and I said above, I hope you consider these conversations should time prove these things true. In parting, I'd like to show you how simple it is to accept Jesus into your life. Thanks for the discussion folks...

Jesus, I'm a sinner and can't save myself. I need you, and offer my life to you. Please save me and my family, I'm sorry for not believing in you, and for all of my sins. I call out to you Jesus, save me! In Jesus name, amen

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January 23rd, 2016, 9:36 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
NY Time wrote:
If Planet Nine Is Out There, It Tilts Our Solar System
Trilobites
By NICHOLAS ST. FLEUR OCT. 20, 2016

Most people think the eight planets in our solar system orbit the sun along a straight plane, like a disc on a record player. But actually, that plane is slightly tilted, and now astronomers think they know why: The elusive Planet Nine.

Earlier this year Michael Brown, a professor of planetary astronomy at the California Institute of Technology, presented evidence that there may be a massive planet beyond Neptune orbiting the sun. The so-called Planet Nine is thought to be about 10 times the mass of Earth and about as large as Neptune. At its farthest point it is about 155 billion miles away from the sun.

At that size and distance, this planet’s mass would have large effects on the other planets orbiting the sun.

“It’s so far away that it essentially gets this huge lever arm on the solar system, and it slowly tilts the planets in its direction,” Dr. Brown said Wednesday during a joint meeting of the American Astronomical Society’s Division for Planetary Sciences and European Planetary Science Congress in Pasadena, Calif. “It can tilt the solar system.”

The eight planets (sorry, Pluto) orbit the sun along a plane. From our position on Earth, it appears as if the sun is tilted at a six-degree angle against that plane. But according to Dr. Brown, it’s actually the planets that are tilted, because of Planet Nine’s gravity. He said it was one of many effects that the elusive planet had on the solar system, and a clue to proving its existence.

“It’s really hard for me to think that the solar system could be doing all that it’s doing without there being a massive planet out there,” he said.

Renu Malhotra, a planetary scientist from the University of Arizona, also presented clues at the presentation that point to the existence of Planet Nine. She said there are four objects deep in the Kuiper Belt, which is a minefield of ice and debris beyond Neptune, that orbit the sun in a synchronized pattern, or orbital resonance.

Dr. Malhotra said the only way these extreme Kuiper Belt objects could orbit in the pattern that they do is if “they are in resonance with an unseen massive planet.”

Astronomers know that it takes those objects about 10,000 years to orbit the sun. If her findings are correct, that would mean that Planet Nine orbits the sun about once every 17,117 years.

Dr. Brown said he thinks that Planet Nine is within the reach of giant telescopes and that astronomers will find it sometime soon.

“By the end of next winter,” he said, “there will be enough people looking at it that I think somebody will track this down.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/scien ... .html?_r=0

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October 20th, 2016, 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Well, it looks like we all should know soon whether or not the world "as we know it" will end:

WaPo wrote:
Acts of Faith
The world as we know it is about to end — again — if you believe this biblical doomsday claim
By Kristine Phillips September 17

A few years ago, NASA senior space scientist David Morrison debunked an apocalyptic claim as a hoax.

No, there’s no such thing as a planet called Nibiru, he said. No, it’s not a brown dwarf surrounded by planets, as iterations of the claim suggest. No, it’s not on a collision course toward Earth. And yes, people should “get over it.”

But the claim has been getting renewed attention recently. Added to it is the precise date of the astronomical event leading to Earth’s destruction. And that, according to David Meade, is in six days — Sept. 23, 2017. Unsealed, an evangelical Christian publication, foretells the Rapture in a viral, four-minute YouTube video, complete with special effects and ominous doomsday soundtrack. It’s called “September 23, 2017: You Need to See This.”

Why Sept. 23, 2017?

Meade’s prediction is based largely on verses and numerical codes in the Bible. He has homed in one number: 33.

“Jesus lived for 33 years. The name Elohim, which is the name of God to the Jews, was mentioned 33 times [in the Bible],” Meade told The Washington Post. “It’s a very biblically significant, numerologically significant number. I’m talking astronomy. I’m talking the Bible … and merging the two.”

And Sept. 23 is 33 days since the Aug. 21 total solar eclipse, which Meade believes is an omen.

He points to the Book of Revelation, which he said describes the image that will appear in the sky on that day, when Nibiru is supposed to rear its ugly head, eventually bringing fire, storms and other types of destruction.

The book describes a woman “clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head” who gives birth to a boy who will “rule all the nations with an iron scepter” while she is threatened by a red seven-headed dragon. The woman then grows the wings of an eagle and is swallowed up by the earth.

The belief, as previously described by Gary Ray, a writer for Unsealed, is that the constellation Virgo — representing the woman — will be clothed in sunlight, in a position that is over the moon and under nine stars and three planets. The planet Jupiter, which will have been inside Virgo — in her womb, in Ray’s interpretation — will move out of Virgo, as though she is giving birth.

To make clear, Meade said he’s not saying the world will end Saturday. Instead, he claims, the prophesies in the Book of Revelation will manifest that day, leading to a series of catastrophic events that will happen over the course of weeks.

“The world is not ending, but the world as we know it is ending,” he said, adding later: “A major part of the world will not be the same the beginning of October.”

Meade’s prediction has been dismissed as a hoax not only by NASA scientists, but also by people of faith.

Ed Stetzer, a professor and executive director of Wheaton College’s Billy Graham Center for Evangelism, first took issue with how Meade is described in some media articles.

“There’s no such thing as a Christian numerologist,” he told The Post. “You basically got a made-up expert in a made-up field talking about a made-up event.… It sort of justifies that there’s a special secret number codes in the Bible that nobody believes.”

Meade said he never referred to himself as a Christian numerologist. He’s a researcher, he said, and he studied astronomy at a university in Kentucky, though he declined to say which one, citing safety reasons. His website says he worked in forensic investigations and spent 10 years working for Fortune 1000 companies. He’s also written books. The most recent one is called “Planet X — The 2017 Arrival.”

Stetzer said that while numbers do have significance in the Bible, they shouldn’t be used to make sweeping predictions about planetary motions and the end of Earth.

“Whenever someone tells you they have found a secret number code in the Bible, end the conversation,” he wrote in an article published Friday in Christianity Today. “Everything else he or she says can be discounted.”

That is not to say that Christians don’t believe in the Bible’s prophesies, Stetzer said, but baseless theories that are repeated and trivialized embarrass people of faith.

“We do believe some odd things,” he said. “That Jesus is coming back, that he will set things right in the world, and no one knows the day or the hour.”

The doomsday date was initially predicted to be in May 2003, according to NASA. Then it was moved to Dec. 21, 2012, the date that the Mayan calendar, as some believed, marked the apocalypse.

Morrison, the NASA scientist, has given simple explanations debunking the claim that a massive planet is on course to destroy Earth. If Nibiru is, indeed, as close as conspiracy theorists believe to striking Earth, astronomers, and anyone really, would’ve already seen it.

“It would be bright. It would be easily visible to the naked eye. If it were up there, you could see it. All of us could see it. … If Nibiru were real and it were a planet with a substantial mass, then it would already be perturbing the orbits of Mars and Earth. We would see changes in those orbits due to this rogue object coming in to the inner solar system,” Morrison said in a video.

Doomsday believers also say that Nibiru is on a 3,600-year orbit. That means it had already come through the solar system in the past, which means we should be looking at an entirely different solar system today, Morrison said.

“Its gravity would’ve messed up the orbits of the inner planets, the Earth, Venus, Mars, probably would’ve stripped the moon away completely,” he said. “Instead, in the inner solar system, we see planets with stable orbits. We see the moon going around the Earth.”

And if Nibiru is not a planet and is, in fact, a brown dwarf, as some claims suggest — again, we would’ve already seen it.

“Everything I’ve said would be worse with a massive object like a brown dwarf,” Morrison said. “That would’ve been tracked by astronomers for a decade or more, and it would already have really affected planetary objects.”

Some call Nibiru “Planet X,” as Meade did in the title of his book. Morrison said that’s a name astronomers give to planets or possible objects that have not been found. For example, when space scientists were searching for a planet beyond Neptune, it was called Planet X. And once it was found, it became Pluto.

Stetzer encouraged Christians to be critical, especially in an information era marred with fake news stories.

“It’s simply fake news that a lot of Christians believe the world will end on September 23,” Stetzer wrote. “Yet, it is still a reminder that we need to think critically about all the news.”

He took issue with a Fox News story with a headline that appears to give credence to the doomsday claim — and was published in the Science section under the label “Planets.”

“Every time end-of-the-world predictions resurface in the media, it is important that we ask ourselves, ‘Is this helpful?’ ” Stetzer wrote. “Is peddling these falsehoods a good way to contribute to meaningful, helpful discussions about the end of times?”

Julie Zauzmer contributed to this story.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act ... af165726ed

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September 21st, 2017, 9:39 am
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