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 Planet X: discussion 
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
I've now spent some time looking into the things stevenlake posted and I have not been able to find a single credible source for any of it. It's all from religious sites, conspiracy theorists, etc. Maybe one day he's proven right, but I doubt it. His claims strike me as having about the same amount of evidence as bigfoot or the anti-vaccine crowd. It's mostly anecdotal, eyewitness accounts that are unverifiable, etc. None of it has or can be scientifically vetted.

Also, I find it incredibly hypocritical that he asked us to look things up and verify them, then decided to cut & run when he didn't get the response he wanted in 1 day. Now that a few of us are trying to look into things and are coming up empty, he's nowhere to be found. Me thinks he wanted people to simply agree with him and wasn't interested in any real debate. Again, maybe he'll prove me wrong and will come back and explain why we can't find any info on his claims (and I hope he does). Until then, to me it's no different than bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, Area 51 Alien sightings, 9/11 Truthers, or any of the other conspiracy theories out there: not supported by any tangible evidence or science that I know of.

But, I could be wrong....

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April 10th, 2014, 3:38 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
And that, TDJ, is why I mocked him in the first place.

Have you guys never run into these types of loons on other forums (or real life)? They can't be reasoned with. There's a certain personality type out there that wants to believe in this nonsense. I really do believe it's a very mild from of paranoid schizophrenia.

Just discredit and downplay their nonsense as much as possible, lest they influence people who would otherwise avoid this crap.


April 10th, 2014, 4:09 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Blueskies wrote:
And that, TDJ, is why I mocked him in the first place.

Have you guys never run into these types of loons on other forums (or real life)? They can't be reasoned with. There's a certain personality type out there that wants to believe in this nonsense. I really do believe it's a very mild from of paranoid schizophrenia.

Just discredit and downplay their nonsense as much as possible, lest they influence people who would otherwise avoid this crap.

Well I don't agree about mocking. That won't accomplish anything. If you mock someone, it's virtually guaranteed they'll get defensive, and you've essentially given them an excuse to do dismiss your criticisms. On the other hand, if you offer up a reasoned, thought out critique, you still address whatever concerns you have but you don't give the person an excuse to be defensive. That way, if they do get defensive and/or outright dismiss your critique without actually addressing it, they marginalize themselves and it just shows the lack of depth of their position. I've found that method to be much more effective, both in life and on the internet.

Besides, I'm open to listening to what people have to say, as long as what they are saying is supported by facts and logic. If it's not, then I choose to simply ignore it.

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“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


April 10th, 2014, 5:19 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
well....I think enough time has gone by to confirm Blue as being right about our guest "expert".


sad really. While i didn't buy into his theory, I was hoping to learn SOMETHING new. Turns out it's all just tinfoil hat wearing nonsense i guess...

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April 14th, 2014, 9:54 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Funny, I've purposefully sat out because as I said in the beginning, this was not a subject I was qualified to speak on. However, I did bring in the person who was the originator of the discussion on FB, and asked him to engage you in speaking, but instead of engaging in discussion, it became a mockery.

Steve initiated the step at my request but laid it out very simple, follow the research, see what it says and then come back and discuss. That wasn't done, especially by Blue. Steve then stated that he was not willing, mainly due to schedule, to participate in the discussion if he was having to muddle through mockery and name calling. As he stated in a private message, "if their too lazy to follow the research, what's the point? All they want to do is name call, and bludgeon you with opinions."

So the only thing that has really been proven is that Blue has used the same tactics that he was trying to get Slybri19 banned for. The other thing that has been shown to be true, is that when something flies in the face of your (everyone's) own personal beliefs, then it's time to shout down the messenger. People scream: facts, facts, but when "facts" are given from a multitude of websites with a multitude of links, they are intelligently reviewed, and then discussed for error, instead self-proclaimed intelligent people reacted in a verbally, albeit text, violent way. Proving yet again that "tolerance" is a one way street.

The thing that gets me is, I brought this over, because I thought this was a subject that would interest the "scientific crowd." I didn't bring this over for religious reasons, or witnessing, or for anything other than to promote a discussion on a topic that I thought would interest those of you who subscribe to this thinking, but instead of politely engaging and counter-engaging the topic, y'all stepped into the ring and began swinging.

What's even more sad to me, is that Steve has a WEALTH of knowledge regarding the "Blood Moon" prophecies, and things as they relate to Israel, that would probably interest a lot of you too! This conversation could have traveled into that realm, but for all the "intelligence" that is claimed here, the ignorance with how this subject was handled was pretty sad.

So go ahead and assinate my character and make your bold claims about who I am with all the bravery you can muster from behind a key board. It speaks more to the crowd here than it does me personally. Because in all seriousness, all I've attempted to do is share MY experiences in what I know in certain subjects. Science can not define SPIRIT, and the evidence can not be proven by physical facts. But because Someone greater than myself laid each of you on my heart, I continue to pray for you. The results of those prayers are not up to me, and I'm not responsible for their outcome. I'm responsible for the obedience in lifting each of you up in prayer, hoping that someday, at a time of His choosing, you'll suddenly discover that I wasn't the Religious crack pot you thought I was. And if it doesn't prove out in this lifetime, that's fine too, because it's the decision YOU have to make, or not.

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April 14th, 2014, 11:59 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
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Steve initiated the step at my request but laid it out very simple, follow the research, see what it says and then come back and discuss. That wasn't done, especially by Blue. Steve then stated that he was not willing, mainly due to schedule, to participate in the discussion if he was having to muddle through mockery and name calling. As he stated in a private message, "if their too lazy to follow the research, what's the point? All they want to do is name call, and bludgeon you with opinions."


Steve gave next to no sources for his outrageous claims.

No one is under any obligation to track his sources down. That's not how it works. If it can be found with a quick Google search then fine, you don't need to cite it. But if it requires more than 5 minutes of digging, then it's on the person making the claim to back their claim up. This is basic discourse.

It sounds like TDJ actually did the working of looking into it further, and discovered what I suspected from the first post -- there was no sources for anything; every claim Steve was making came from a web of conspiracy theory websites with no credibility or evidence for their claims.


April 14th, 2014, 12:11 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Blueskies wrote:
Quote:
Steve initiated the step at my request but laid it out very simple, follow the research, see what it says and then come back and discuss. That wasn't done, especially by Blue. Steve then stated that he was not willing, mainly due to schedule, to participate in the discussion if he was having to muddle through mockery and name calling. As he stated in a private message, "if their too lazy to follow the research, what's the point? All they want to do is name call, and bludgeon you with opinions."


Steve gave next to no sources for his outrageous claims.

No one is under any obligation to track his sources down. That's not how it works. If it can be found with a quick Google search then fine, you don't need to cite it. But if it requires more than 5 minutes of digging, then it's on the person making the claim to back their claim up. This is basic discourse.

It sounds like TDJ actually did the working of looking into it further, and discovered what I suspected from the first post -- there was no sources for anything; every claim Steve was making came from a web of conspiracy theory websites with no credibility or evidence for their claims.

Exactly. The burden of proof always falls on those making claims, and simply posting opinions without links or data to back it up isn't really credible. But, I did try to locate where the data came from and came up with differing analysis from what steve posted.

WarEr, what you wrote simply isn't true, at least for the majority on here. As I pointed out in a couple different posts, Blue was the only person who did any mocking or name calling, and in response to a negative response from that one person, steve decided to leave. Admittedly, he came back to post his final thoughts, but he never engaged in any conversation whatsoever. He made several long winded statements, asked us to look into them, and then when we didn't come to the same conclusions as him he left. I never mocked him, nor did I condone mocking. Quite the opposite: I responded to Blue saying that mockery was not a tactic in which I would engage. It's 4 posts above this one.

What I did do was exactly what steve asked (and exactly what you posted above): I looked into what he posted. I responded with what I found and my analysis/understanding of the information. Or as you put it: "follow the research, see what it says and then come back and discuss." That's exactly what I did. I also never said that I was right and he was wrong. I said that from what I can tell, things aren't adding up, but I could be missing something. In my mind, that's the very epitome of engaging in conversation: describing my perspective/opinion, but not being adamant that what I am saying is correct. Steve is the one who chose not to respond. His statement that "if their too lazy to follow the research, what's the point? All they want to do is name call, and bludgeon you with opinions." is simply not true. As I pointed out above, I did exactly what he asked and he chose not to respond. His decision to run away is very telling. It shows me that he doesn't seem to be able to withstand anyone questioning him and doesn't seem to have a solid understanding of what he's posting. He seems to understand the analysis that agrees with his opinions, but he doesn't seem to truly understand the information in a way that allows him to truly engage in a conversation about it. I'm not claiming that I have that deep a level of understanding of it either, but I am willing to investigate, ask questions, and have conversations, even if the answers disagree with my line of thought. Steve doesn't appear to be willing to reciprocate. It seems he wants people to read his info and agree with him, and when that doesn't happen he "takes his ball and goes home". Notice how I never said he is definitely these things? I purposefully say that he SEEMS to be this way, because that's all I know of him. I could be wrong though.

Again, I'm not claiming that I know the answers here. I simply posted the information I had found and my analysis of it, and I waited for steve's response. If he comes back and wants to have a conversation, I and some others will likely still be here. Clearly he can stay away if he wants, but he shouldn't expect people to take him or his opinions seriously when he reacts in this way.

At the end of the day, I don't really care if he comes back or not. If he does, great. It'll likely lead to interesting conversations. If not, there are plenty of others on here who will still have other interesting conversations. What I do care about is my reputation here, and I'm not going to sit back while you or anyone else accuses me of things that aren't true. I'm not claiming to be perfect, and I've engaged in some thing in the past that were inappropriate and I apologized for them. But in this case, nothing inappropriate came from me, and I don't appreciate being accused of it.

I'll reiterate this one more time, since the first 3 times I posted it didn't seem to sink in: There was 1 person who mocked steve. 1. Not 2, or 3, or any other number. It was 1. And he has admitted that he did it and owns that. No one else has mocked steve. If he wants a conversation, he knows where to find us.

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April 14th, 2014, 12:42 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarE - don't take it personal. And you're just as qualified as Steve was to discuss the topic, because his "wealth of knowledge" isn't facts or proof, but rather speculation and knowing the game around the subject. Speculation and theories related to science don't make it science. It's science fiction. Science has a certain set of steps that include having things peer reviewed. Those that throw out the "science wouldn't touch this subject because they A) scared of it for their careers or B) trying to hide something haven't even taken the time to talk to real scientists about it. Every scientist I know would JUMP at the chance to prove aliens, bigfoot, etc.. but there's no science to be had yet. Sure, you get some scientists that can't get jobs at major institutions and are just trying to make a name or make a quick buck like in any other field, but they can't get peer reviewed because none of what they claim is repeatable which is the #1 staple in science.

With that said, does the subject matter intrigue me? absolutely. It's always interesting to dig into something that has a fascinating story behind it. But most of it is just that... stories. You have to demand proof at some point in order to go all in.


April 14th, 2014, 1:31 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Well I would ask that you please forgive my rant, as it was born out of embarrassment to some extent. I asked Steve to come here, I asked Steve to discuss a subject with you that I could not, I asked Steve to re-engage after the 3 face palm event, and to read a few of your responses, it didn't appear that his welcome was well, welcome.

I would hope TDJ, or Wags, or anyone who's truly interested and willing to discuss it would contact him via a PM, I don't know how much time he'd have to devote to it because of some programming that he's currently involved in but I can ask. I would also like for him to branch into the Blood Moon prophecies if y'all wouldn't mind, because the few things that I have seen posted from him as it relates to Israel are VERY interesting as well. Thoughts?

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April 14th, 2014, 2:41 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion


April 14th, 2014, 3:35 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Blueskies wrote:


That was a great video.

I really wish religious people would stop trying to end the world. Some of us actually like it.


April 14th, 2014, 4:06 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Well I would ask that you please forgive my rant, as it was born out of embarrassment to some extent. I asked Steve to come here, I asked Steve to discuss a subject with you that I could not, I asked Steve to re-engage after the 3 face palm event, and to read a few of your responses, it didn't appear that his welcome was well, welcome.

I would hope TDJ, or Wags, or anyone who's truly interested and willing to discuss it would contact him via a PM, I don't know how much time he'd have to devote to it because of some programming that he's currently involved in but I can ask. I would also like for him to branch into the Blood Moon prophecies if y'all wouldn't mind, because the few things that I have seen posted from him as it relates to Israel are VERY interesting as well. Thoughts?


WarEer, I asked for one thing right from the get out. Tell me why we cant trust NASA. I didnt mock him (although i did take a shot at FEMA). when he did make a statement about why i shouldnt trust them it was a BS blanket statement with litterally no facts to back it up. I laid a road map for him and he didnt even take the SLIGHTEST effort to get me to buy in. This is on him bro. I feel bad for you, because he painted himself as someone who was in the know, and you sought him out as ssuch, but sadly he made himself loook pretty foolish pretty quick. You can be upset and say Blue did that....but sadly no, Blue just pointed out was obvious to him from the begining. While others (like myself) were willing to be more patient with Steve, our patience did not pay off. If anything you should be upset with him W4C.....You hitched your cart to his horse, only to find out that the so called hosre was a dead sheep.

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April 14th, 2014, 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
regularjoe12 wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Well I would ask that you please forgive my rant, as it was born out of embarrassment to some extent. I asked Steve to come here, I asked Steve to discuss a subject with you that I could not, I asked Steve to re-engage after the 3 face palm event, and to read a few of your responses, it didn't appear that his welcome was well, welcome.

I would hope TDJ, or Wags, or anyone who's truly interested and willing to discuss it would contact him via a PM, I don't know how much time he'd have to devote to it because of some programming that he's currently involved in but I can ask. I would also like for him to branch into the Blood Moon prophecies if y'all wouldn't mind, because the few things that I have seen posted from him as it relates to Israel are VERY interesting as well. Thoughts?


WarEer, I asked for one thing right from the get out. Tell me why we cant trust NASA. I didnt mock him (although i did take a shot at FEMA). when he did make a statement about why i shouldnt trust them it was a BS blanket statement with litterally no facts to back it up. I laid a road map for him and he didnt even take the SLIGHTEST effort to get me to buy in. This is on him bro. I feel bad for you, because he painted himself as someone who was in the know, and you sought him out as ssuch, but sadly he made himself loook pretty foolish pretty quick. You can be upset and say Blue did that....but sadly no, Blue just pointed out was obvious to him from the begining. While others (like myself) were willing to be more patient with Steve, our patience did not pay off. If anything you should be upset with him W4C.....You hitched your cart to his horse, only to find out that the so called hosre was a dead sheep.

Bingo. He came here, set up his own rules (which are kind of at odds with normal accepted behavior in a conversation), and we followed those rules. He's the one who has chosen not to participate in the conversation, so if nothing comes of it, it's 100% on him. W4C, I think if you imagine this as if it happened in real life you'll realize how ridiculous he's acting. For example, let's say this was a town hall (or some kind of group discussion).

Steven shows up and says he'd like to contribute to the discussion, but what he says is going to require research on the part of others. Then he lays out all his claims (NASA can't be trusted, space/planet theories, amateur astronomers whose credibility can be established in part by NASA(???), etc). A day passes and the group meets again. One person in the audience mocks him, but is told to pipe down (by another in the group). A couple other people ask sincere questions. Steven gets mad about the one person mocking him and leaves. He comes back after you ask him to give it one more try. This time nobody mocks him. In fact, the same person who previously mocked him actually asks legit questions, and this time Steven's response is to insult: "you fail at google search 101". Regardless though, there are no further insults to Steven, he makes his statements/responses, and leaves. People take some time to digest what he said, start noticing that the data doesn't seem to show what he claims it shows, and try to ask him a few more questions. Steven refuses to come back because he claims everyone else is "too lazy to follow the research" and only wants to "name call, and bludgeon with opinions."

If someone acted like that in the real world, what would you think about them? Would you consider their decision to leave justified, or would you think that they should try to answer the questions people have asked? If they refused to answer the questions, would you question the veracity of their theories? I'm guessing that if we were to flip the roles here and it were someone trying to discredit biblical scripture using incorrect or inaccurate data that you would say they were wrong and that they should answer the questions asked of them if they want to have any credibility.

I'm not going to go chasing him down. If he wants to participate, he knows where to find us.

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April 15th, 2014, 3:29 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Let me see if I can get him to wade back in and explain his reasoning, because from my perspective I see what you are saying but don't know enough about it to weigh in on either side.

But Blue just did the exact same thing he normally does, instead of mature response such as, "The Blood Moon theory has been questioned for some time, and I believe this will show how it's been proven wrong...." That's how to engage in a discussion, but what do we get?

Blood Moon movie clip with John Hagee (who I'm not too sure about personally) DEBUNKED!

Really!

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April 15th, 2014, 9:15 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Let me see if I can get him to wade back in and explain his reasoning, because from my perspective I see what you are saying but don't know enough about it to weigh in on either side.

But Blue just did the exact same thing he normally does, instead of mature response such as, "The Blood Moon theory has been questioned for some time, and I believe this will show how it's been proven wrong...." That's how to engage in a discussion, but what do we get?

Blood Moon movie clip with John Hagee (who I'm not too sure about personally) DEBUNKED!

Really!



Well W4C, you have to take into account that his theory is a pretty far fetched one. people are going to scoff, and criticize. if the theory cant (or the "expert" for that matter) hold up to criticism, that is USUALLY a result in poor facts to back up the statement. A perfect example of this is Scientology as a whole. If you public speak out about it, and they catch wind of it, you are likely to get sued. They do this because they KNOW their "religeon" can't stand up to any scrutiny.

IMO this falls in along the same lines. Unless Steven can actually show some supporting information that is....

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April 15th, 2014, 11:19 am
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