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 You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 More 
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Post You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 More
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You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing (and GE, Verizon & 23 More U.S. Corporations)

Feeling the sting of Tax Day today? Prepare to feel even worse—with a look at the 26 U.S. corporations who pay no federal corporate income tax at all. Plus, see how your tax bill compares to the rest of the country.

You may be among the 95 percent of Americans who believe it’s their civic duty to pay their fair share of taxes, but sending a portion of your salary to the IRS still smarts. Even for the more than 100 million who will receive refunds, no day is more agonizing than April 15.

If only we could all be corporations. Although they all start with a flat 35 percent federal tax rate, most employ a team of clever accountants to whittle down their liability—sometimes to nothing at all.

After taking advantage of credits, exemptions, and offshore tax havens, U.S. corporations get away with paying an average of less than 13 percent, according to the Government Accountability Office. What’s more, the GAO found that more than half of them reported owing no federal taxes in at least one year between 1998 and 2005.

According to a study by the advocacy group Citizens for Tax Justice (CTJ), 26 Fortune 500 corporations paid no federal corporate income tax over the most recent five-year period. In fact, according to CTJ, they generated so many tax breaks that they reported negative taxes and often received a rebate check. As procrastinators rush to post offices and computers to file by deadline, let us pause—in anger, jealousy, or admiration—to recognize the corporations who manage to avoid the taxman.

Corporation and 2008-2012 Rate

1. Pepco Holdings -33.0%

2. PG&E Corp. -16.7%

3. NiSource -13.6%

4. Wisconsin Energy -13.5%

5. General Electric -11.1%

6. CenterPoint Energy -8.5%

7. Integrys Energy Group -8.2%

8. Atmos Energy -7.7%

9. Tenet Healthcare -6.0%

10. American Electric Power -5.8%

11. Ryder System -4.7%

12. Con-way -3.5%

13. Duke Energy -3.3%

14. Priceline.com -3.0%

15. FirstEnergy -3.0%

16. Apache -2.4%

17. Interpublic Group -2.1%

18. Verizon Communications -1.8%

19. NextEra Energy -1.6%

20. Consolidated Edison -.1%

21. CMS Energy -1.1%

22. Boeing -1.0%

23. Northeast Utilities -0.7%

24. Corning -0.3%

25. Paccar Rate -0.1%

26. MetroPCS Communications -0.1%

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... tions.html
PS: Keep in mind the numbers listed above are negative, meaning they received a refund.

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April 15th, 2014, 10:33 am
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
Why should corporations have to pay taxes?


April 15th, 2014, 11:37 am
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
I hate stats like these since they don't tell the whole story, very isolated and misleading. First, this is just their corporate tax rate - just one of many taxes a corporation pays. There are payroll taxes, workers comp, state/local, sales, property, etc in addition to the foreign taxes.

Second, you have to look at corporate tax rates over a long period of time because of the way accounting works. Companies can take huge charges creating all sorts of tax havoc over 5 year stretches.

The federal corporate tax rate in the US is 35%, the highest in the world. Add in the state corporate tax and now you are close to 40%. That doesn't fly globally, so the gov't builds in all the loopholes and accounting standards dramatically lowering the real or "effective" corporate tax rate. I don't know what it is, but I'm guess it is between 10-15% honestly given these companies pay big bucks to tax accountants.

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April 15th, 2014, 12:55 pm
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
Blueskies wrote:
Why should corporations have to pay taxes?
Why shouldn't they?

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April 15th, 2014, 2:57 pm
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
Pablo wrote:
The federal corporate tax rate in the US is 35%, the highest in the world. Add in the state corporate tax and now you are close to 40%. That doesn't fly globally, so the gov't builds in all the loopholes and accounting standards dramatically lowering the real or "effective" corporate tax rate. I don't know what it is, but I'm guess it is between 10-15% honestly given these companies pay big bucks to tax accountants.
As I interpreted it, the numbers listed above are the effective tax rates for these companies, all in the negative meaning they all had refunds. I know some peeps like to complain about people getting refunds, welfare, not paying into the system, so why is it ok for corporations to do it? That's the part I'm having difficulty understanding. Not too mention, corporate welfare likely costs American taxpayers a lot more than 'human welfare' (for lack of a better term at the moment :oops: ) Granted I understand if they lose money, and not just by moving monies around to make it look like that, but if there are profits they should be taxed on them.

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April 15th, 2014, 3:03 pm
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
TheRealWags wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
Why should corporations have to pay taxes?
Why shouldn't they?


Becauses businesses are just groups of people. A business, by itself, is literally incapable of paying taxes. When you tax a business, what you're really doing is just taking money from someone involved with that business and giving it to the government. Some have argued that the businesses' employees are the ones who get hardest hit, while others have said its the shareholders. Still others have argued that the businesses just pass the additional cost on to customers. Here's a piece that takes a look at the issue: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall ... ot-people/

Businesses should not be taxed. Just tax individual people.


April 15th, 2014, 5:31 pm
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
TheRealWags wrote:
Pablo wrote:
I know some peeps like to complain about people getting refunds, welfare, not paying into the system, so why is it ok for corporations to do it? That's the part I'm having difficulty understanding. Not too mention, corporate welfare likely costs American taxpayers a lot more than 'human welfare' (for lack of a better term at the moment :oops: ).


Wags, you are only looking at the effective corporate tax rate, not the total tax rate. In payroll taxes, you pay the employers side of FICA (same as yours) - that is 7.65%. Throw on workers comp, you are now paying $.10 for every dollar you are paying employees to the Fed. Again, there are many other taxes besides just the corporate income tax that companies pay.

Somebody not paying taxes is often a huge drain on the system, they might also get their food paid for, education (headstart, pre-school, etc), housing (section 8.), etc. Even if the companies above are paying little in corporate income tax, just think what is paid for by all their other taxes, the taxes their employees pay, and the income their employees spend. That is positive cash flow into the economy.

Also these 26 companies represent 5% of the Fortune 500. In terms of people, the percentage that don't pay taxes is about 50%. That puts a giant burden on companies and the workers who actually pay taxes to support that large of a group of people.

In addition, raise taxes on corporations and watch them move overseas or at least many of their workers and corporate profits. Is this what you hope to achieve?

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April 15th, 2014, 5:33 pm
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
Blueskies wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
Why should corporations have to pay taxes?
Why shouldn't they?


Becauses businesses are just groups of people. A business, by itself, is literally incapable of paying taxes. When you tax a business, what you're really doing is just taking money from someone involved with that business and giving it to the government. Some have argued that the businesses' employees are the ones who get hardest hit, while others have said its the shareholders. Still others have argued that the businesses just pass the additional cost on to customers. Here's a piece that takes a look at the issue: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall ... ot-people/

Businesses should not be taxed. Just tax individual people.
I'll check out the article, thx. This seems to fly in the face of "Corporations are people", doesn't it? Sounds as if corporations want it both ways...don't be treated as a 'person' when it comes to taxes, but wanted to be treated as a 'person' when it comes to political donations. Can't have it both ways....
Pablo wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Pablo wrote:
I know some peeps like to complain about people getting refunds, welfare, not paying into the system, so why is it ok for corporations to do it? That's the part I'm having difficulty understanding. Not too mention, corporate welfare likely costs American taxpayers a lot more than 'human welfare' (for lack of a better term at the moment :oops: ).
Wags, you are only looking at the effective corporate tax rate, not the total tax rate. In payroll taxes, you pay the employers side of FICA (same as yours) - that is 7.65%. Throw on workers comp, you are now paying $.10 for every dollar you are paying employees to the Fed. Again, there are many other taxes besides just the corporate income tax that companies pay.
Let's also not forget to include the taxes people pay: Income, SSA, Medicare, sales, property, payroll, etc, etc.
Pablo wrote:
Somebody not paying taxes is often a huge drain on the system, they might also get their food paid for, education (headstart, pre-school, etc), housing (section 8.), etc. Even if the companies above are paying little in corporate income tax, just think what is paid for by all their other taxes, the taxes their employees pay, and the income their employees spend. That is positive cash flow into the economy.
Indeed it is a positive cash flow, but why are you including what the employees do with the corporation?
Pablo wrote:
Also these 26 companies represent 5% of the Fortune 500. In terms of people, the percentage that don't pay taxes is about 50%. That puts a giant burden on companies and the workers who actually pay taxes to support that large of a group of people.
As I understand it, this is a sample of the corporations that received refunds, not all of them.
Pablo wrote:
In addition, raise taxes on corporations and watch them move overseas or at least many of their workers and corporate profits. Is this what you hope to achieve?
Kinda sounds like a scare tactic to me. In case you haven't noticed, any company that wants to move to another part of the World already does. It's been happening for over 20 years, are you saying it is all related to the US Corporate Tax rate? If so, please provide data. Thx.

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April 16th, 2014, 8:48 am
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
TheRealWags wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
Why should corporations have to pay taxes?
Why shouldn't they?
Becauses businesses are just groups of people. A business, by itself, is literally incapable of paying taxes. When you tax a business, what you're really doing is just taking money from someone involved with that business and giving it to the government. Some have argued that the businesses' employees are the ones who get hardest hit, while others have said its the shareholders. Still others have argued that the businesses just pass the additional cost on to customers. Here's a piece that takes a look at the issue: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall ... ot-people/

Businesses should not be taxed. Just tax individual people.
I'll check out the article, thx. This seems to fly in the face of "Corporations are people", doesn't it? Sounds as if corporations want it both ways...don't be treated as a 'person' when it comes to taxes, but wanted to be treated as a 'person' when it comes to political donations. Can't have it both ways....




Just finished the article, not much data, looks like opinion thus far (unless I missed something).

It does seem as though Corps want it both ways: Don't tax us like people, but we want unlimited ability to contribute to political processes like people... hmmm Perhaps I'm missing something.....

All that said, let's walk through it:
Remove all taxes form all Corps. Who makes up the difference in tax revenue? Or is it auto-magically expected to rise? Please explain.

Now that they have all this extra revenue/funds, what will they do with it? One could assume there'd be more money for all employees, but would that actually happen? Or is it more likely that these extra monies would be spread across the highest earners as well as the board of directors?

They'd likely take some and reinvest

Wonder if they would be as likely to donate to charities, considering there'd be no tax break. As an example, I know the company I work for donates millions each year to several charities, without a tax break what is the incentive to contribute to charities? Good publicity to be sure, but there are several ways to get good publicity.

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April 16th, 2014, 10:40 am
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
yet another reason to switch to a sales tax system.

Coorporations still pay taxes on the suplies they buy, and property they own. they contribute just like every individual would.

just my 2 cents...

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April 16th, 2014, 10:55 am
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
Pablo wrote:
In addition, raise taxes on corporations and watch them move overseas or at least many of their workers and corporate profits. Is this what you hope to achieve?


My Company delivers food to business' 1/3 of our business is Pharmaceutical Reps bringing Food to Drs offices. In the last year alone there has been a huge shift of Pharma Corporate offices buying small irish Pharma firms, and moving their corporate HQs to Irelandfor the tax Breaks. The biggest of these is Warner Chilcott, who bought a tiny Irish company and moved HQ their last year to go from 28%+ to 12% tax rate. Then an even bigger US company (Actavis) Bought them since the HQ was already in ireland, to do the same thing. And these are companies who arent just shipping products worldwide from a factory out of the US. They have 50,000+ employees working in the US,and yet pay their corporate taxes to Ireland just to get away from our sucky system.


April 16th, 2014, 11:22 am
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
regularjoe12 wrote:
yet another reason to switch to a sales tax system.

Coorporations still pay taxes on the suplies they buy, and property they own. they contribute just like every individual would.

just my 2 cents...
A consumption tax? As long as it replaces entirely the existing system, I'm for it.

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April 16th, 2014, 11:43 am
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
DJ-B wrote:
Pablo wrote:
In addition, raise taxes on corporations and watch them move overseas or at least many of their workers and corporate profits. Is this what you hope to achieve?


My Company delivers food to business' 1/3 of our business is Pharmaceutical Reps bringing Food to Drs offices. In the last year alone there has been a huge shift of Pharma Corporate offices buying small irish Pharma firms, and moving their corporate HQs to Irelandfor the tax Breaks. The biggest of these is Warner Chilcott, who bought a tiny Irish company and moved HQ their last year to go from 28%+ to 12% tax rate. Then an even bigger US company (Actavis) Bought them since the HQ was already in ireland, to do the same thing. And these are companies who arent just shipping products worldwide from a factory out of the US. They have 50,000+ employees working in the US,and yet pay their corporate taxes to Ireland just to get away from our sucky system.

I can chime in on this one. My former employer, Accenture, is the largest consulting firm in the world. It has approximately 300,000 employees. It is formally incorporated in Ireland, and was formerly incorporated in Bermuda. Those two locations were chosen largely for tax purposes.

Most publicly traded companies view maximizing profits and returning value to their shareholders as their primary purpose. So if you offer them an option to relocated to a place with a significantly cheaper tax structure, they're going to take it. Especially for non-manufacturing companies like consultancies and financial services companies.

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April 16th, 2014, 1:06 pm
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
TheRealWags wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
yet another reason to switch to a sales tax system.

Coorporations still pay taxes on the suplies they buy, and property they own. they contribute just like every individual would.

just my 2 cents...
A consumption tax? As long as it replaces entirely the existing system, I'm for it.

Agreed. I wish there was a consumption tax instead of an income tax.

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April 16th, 2014, 1:07 pm
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Post Re: You Pay Higher Taxes Than Boeing and GE, Verizon & 23 Mo
Pablo wrote:
In addition, raise taxes on corporations and watch them move overseas or at least many of their workers and corporate profits. Is this what you hope to achieve?


TheRealWags wrote:
Kinda sounds like a scare tactic to me. In case you haven't noticed, any company that wants to move to another part of the World already does. It's been happening for over 20 years, are you saying it is all related to the US Corporate Tax rate? If so, please provide data. Thx.


This isn't a scare tactic, it is reality. What has happened to manufacturing in our country with cheaper labor overseas? I'm not saying all companies moving overseas has to do with the US Corporate Tax rate, that is one factor. But if you are an independent company and can make pretty much the same income operating out of two different countries, aren't you going to do so were you get to keep more of those profits? Again, many other factors come into play but you have to look at this realistically and realize that we live in a global market now so you have to be competitive.

TheRealWags wrote:
Let's also not forget to include the taxes people pay: Income, SSA, Medicare, sales, property, payroll, etc, etc.


First, half the population pays no income taxes or gets more money back than they put into the system. If the gov't pays their rent, they pay no property taxes. Income tax and SS/Medicare is payroll taxes. BTW - have you ever written a check to the SS administration? I bet your employer does every week for over 15% of your income. I realize you "pay" half of that to the gov't who was to put it in a trust fund for us to get back out when we retire. That is until they started taking it all out and writing IOUs.

TheRealWags wrote:
Indeed it is a positive cash flow, but why are you including what the employees do with the corporation?


Because, if you raise corporate taxes and companies move overseas to retain more profit you directly take that money right out of our employees hands and the US economy. It is pretty important.

TheRealWags wrote:
As I understand it, this is a sample of the corporations that received refunds, not all of them.


Really, I find it hard to believe that an article with this kind of agenda would leave out such critical data. I mean, they are including companies data with negative tenth of one percent in their figures, why would they opt not to include the easy to access data of public companies if they had say a negative 5% then?

BTW - I've been saying a sales/consumption tax is the best way to go for years. No loopholes and it encourages something that the people of this country are terrible at - saving money. Works well for the Texas economy from what I've seen living in Big D for 20 years.

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April 17th, 2014, 9:07 am
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