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 The truth about the Underground. 
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Post The truth about the Underground.
To whom it may concern, Admin: I hope it is ok to post this here. I just want all the former Underground members that are moving over here to know how bad the Moderators hands were tied by Vinny. If you find it to be objectionable and delete it, I fully understand.

The following is a post from Nuffsaid. It's a quasi appology. And my reply to it. ( Including my resignation from the UG).

NuffSaid wrote:
As all board members are aware I am not happy with many things going on with the team. No need to list them again here. That isn't the point of this thread. I've said plenty about them latelty. Too much actually. I honestly believe all that I said about the team and that is why I say what I say. I was outragged because all I was doing was looking at the future ramifications of what I saw and believe. The motivation is always to be the best we can be in my opinion.

I realize that many fans were damn happy that for once we had a .500 record and were in first place. It has been a long long time since we have been able to say that. That was a moment to celebrate and many came here to do just that. I know some specifically felt this way such as Billy, gramps, and Chaz I know felt that way. I realize it was a major downer to read all the problems I see going on with the team. My intentions were not to rain on anyways parade at all. I had 4 games and had had enough of my perceived problems. If I prematurely stole that moment of happiness from anyone I appologize for that. It was not my intention.

My intention as always was to share my opinion on the state of the lions and the outlook of the future based on things I see and the way I interpret them.


Nuff,
Have you ever heard about the law of unintended consequences? When you have you regular negative comments, you had damn well expect to recieve equal and opposite reactions.
You rants have driven away a lot of good posters. Did you intend that to happen? I don't know. But, it did. Because of you, Snow was banned from here. And now, because of you, Sly was removed as a moderator. Sly was the single most important person on this site that kept it going and growing in lean times. You have done what virtualy no-one else could. You have killed this site. I hope your happy now. You continue to skirt the rules of this site and get away with it because Vinny won't ban you for whatever reason. In effect, Vinny has neutered us mods by not banning you. A simple appology from you is not good enough to right all your wrongs. I have been the one mod that has continually stood up for you. And you had to shove me into the other corner didn't you?

I hereby announce my resignation as a Moderator of the Lions Underground. Us mods are mods in name only anyway. This is my last post on this site. Sianora.


October 15th, 2005, 12:34 am
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I have been noticing alot of Underground Persons @ Lionbacker - Sorry your usual forum didn't work out for you guys

I for one love having more peeps @ Lionbacker and look foward to getting to know all of you.

Thanks for posting - :shock: I can't imagine something like that happening here

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October 15th, 2005, 1:32 am
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Post Re: The truth about the Underground.
BillySims wrote:
To whom it may concern, Admin: I hope it is ok to post this here. If you find it to be objectionable and delete it, I fully understand.


I'll go ahead and allow it...we rarely have problems with people or posting over here...although, nobody's fond of "advertising," but that's obviously not really what you're doing. Most of us try to shy away from the "forum wars" that seem to be ongoing with my people.

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October 15th, 2005, 1:34 am
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I didn't post a whole lot over there, but read often. I wish I knew what HAPPENED. I had been enjoying that sight. Now all the Posters'r that I like to read are leaving and I don't really know what caused that big of a problem. But then again I wasn't a mod.


Nice to see you guys over here. If you have change your username in a dramatic way please PM me.



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October 15th, 2005, 3:01 am
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Well, I for one am truly sorry for what happened. I think it would be wise for all concerned to just put this mess behind and launch ourselves into some good football discussion and let the chips sort themselves out where they may. I just hope mooch and harrington will cooperate! Did I just say that? :lol:

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October 15th, 2005, 8:32 am
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LionBacker is the only forum I've ever been a member of and it's rare for me to even visit other forums. I therefore don't have much of a handle on what you've been thru other than I clearly sense your frustration and sympathise with that. I'd hate it if this 'home within my home' changed it's personality and in turn caused me to venture elsewhere.

What I can say is... Welcome One And All!!


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Please join us and enjoy the environment here. Chat and have fun!

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October 15th, 2005, 9:39 am
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The truth of the matter is that Vinny (The Lions Underground Administrator) and I have had an ongoing dispute over NuffSaid for over a year now. The vast majority of this was not public knowledge, but Billy Sims can attest to quite a bit of it dating back to April 2004. The problem is that Nuff states his words quite carefully and his true intentions lie in his tone and his innuendos. Most posters were capable of reading between the lines and were infuriated by Nuff's comments. Unfortunately, Vinny was not capable of this and took his posts literally word by word. In this regard, Nuff said nothing wrong in Vinny's mind because he never stated anything point blank. Well, he did on several occasions, but that wasn't his usual modus operandi.

I did manage to get Nuff suspended twice, but Vinny chewed me out on one occasion because he felt the suspension was unwarranted. See the above paragraph and that reasoning will be self-explanatory. As a result, I was growing increasingly frustrated with Vinny's management of that site. There were two sets of rules: One for Nuff and one for everybody else. Back in April, I was ordered to back away from Nuff and let Vinny and the other mods handle everything regarding him. I took a one week voluntary leave of absence at that time because of it.

Sending PMs to the mods and/or the admin about that character usually didn't do any good. To this day, I still don't understand why Vinny supported him so adamantly, and I probably never will. What I did understand was that complaining to Vinny about Nuff was the equivalent of talking to a wall. Those complaints fell on deaf ears and were never acted upon. That's a shame.

Personally, I know of dozens of people that have left the UG because of NuffSaid. I find it amusing that one of those posters moved here awhile ago and PMed me the other day to explain why he left. In case you haven't noticed, I am orchestrating a mass exodus from the UG to Lionbacker, as we speak. This is being done for one reason and one reason only: NuffSaid. I have also PMed the Administrators of this site and have urged them to not allow him to contaminate this board, as well.

In closing, I will tell you that I was removed as a moderator at the UG because of my comments in the chat room on Tuesday night. Vinny didn't specifically tell me which comment he took offense with, but he had several to choose from. My guess is that my threat to delete all of Nuff's posts had something to do with it, though. Then again, it could have been my ultimatum issued to Vinny of him or me. Vinny ended up choosing Nuff and the rest is history. Bad move, IMO. Vinny made his choice and now he has to deal with the consequences.


October 15th, 2005, 10:16 am
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Yeah I just moved there to here even though I didnt post much...so Hello everybody

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October 15th, 2005, 12:51 pm
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Stallion wrote:
Yeah I just moved there to here even though I didnt post much...so Hello everybody


Ditto.......Myself also.

Now maybe I can read some positive views concerning the Lions, which an out of state, NC Lions fan find few and far between here in the South.

Panthers > Geeeeez, I hate um! SERIOUSLY :!:


October 15th, 2005, 1:13 pm
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Just wanted to say hi all and to let you know that I've also migrated here from the Underground after butting heads with Nuff more times than I can count.

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October 15th, 2005, 1:25 pm
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Nice place you have here. I haven't migrated persay but probably will leave the underground after the season.


October 15th, 2005, 2:12 pm
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well welcome guys.. I guess we are all newbies again :)


October 15th, 2005, 3:12 pm
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To all of you who are new to Lionbacker, whether it be part of the leaving from the Underground or not, welcome.

I am one of the staff members (not a mod) here, and I can tell you several things.

1. We accept opposing opinions to what is stated. Remember people, everyone has a right to their own opinion. Don't let it get personal, because after all, we are all hoping for the best in regards to the Lions.

2. Pablo is an extraordinary site administrator. AlphaMale is an excellent site coordinator, and our mods are very fair.

3. If you find yourself getting too 'emotional', take a few days to cool down. I have been guilty of this, and find that time allows your own head to clear, as well as the other people involved.

4. Keep it real. We are all here to talk about the Lions predominantly. Anything not having to do with the team can be posted in other areas, such as this. Try and keep the workload light for the moderators and organize your postings accordingly.

5. Have some fun and make some online friends.

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October 15th, 2005, 3:24 pm
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Hmmm. I admit that it is great to have a bunch of familiar faces here. I enjoyed a ton of discussion with you guys undergound. But I will shed some light on why I've been here all this time.

What I couldn't take was when the boards became more about the members than it was about the content. Lionsunderground seemed obsessed with recruiting the best posters and having a collection and alliance of the best of them. The content - which was good - seemed like it was only a by-product of that. Now that may not be what it was then, but that's how I felt and didn't like that.

There were many occasions where I would post there and the replies were something like,

Quote:
Look what the DuMB board is missing now that HB and the rest of the good posters left.


Quote:
It so refreshing to read a well thought out and composed post by an avid, intelligent Lions fan, as opposed to the mindless ooze of garbage on the DuMB.
(I actually fished for those quotes on the U)

And I admit I got sick of the superiority complex. Which is why I would always go back and forth to the official board. I'd go to the underground when I was tired of the immaturity, and I'd go back to the DLMB when I got tired of the big-headedness.

Until I made this place my home. You see, it isn't about what board is better than who here. As a member of the staff we just devote our time to making this place the best we can without focusing on any others. You see you won't ever hear any of the regulars here refer to the official board as the DuMB, which I admit was annoying to me. We try not to put off any holier than thou vibes here. In a nutshell, we have guys trying to upkeep a solid site, and we have guys talking football. It isn't about any one character like nuff, or tech, or whomever. It's about the lions. And I would like to keep it that way.

Which brings me to you guys sly and billy. I suppose I could pm you guys, but I have nothing to hide. I am a little concerned with how this 'migration' is going about. It's great to have solid posters like the all the underground guys and girl. But you have to see that right now it seems like you're making it a personal vendentta to hurt vinny and the undergound by once again making it about the members or the quality posters. And taking the whole board with you so we can watch the underground just shrivel and die.

I admit that I didn't always agree with nuff, but I parted ways and severing ties was enough for me. Nothing wrong with inviting everyone guys, but please don't make this a personal issue. Sly you've already said, " Vinny ended up choosing Nuff and the rest is history. Bad move, IMO. Vinny made his choice and now he has to deal with the consequences." I've even read some of the other comments on the U. And my biggest fear is that some kind of board war will start between the underground and lionbacker. I came to lionbacker because I was tired of board politics and have been happy ever since.

Hey I was in your guys position as well. I wasn't happy with how things were run. But I didn't have to have the last word, or the last laugh. You're right, if that's how they run things and how they want to do things, even if you know it isn't for their best interests the obvious does not need to be stated. From my point of view it only looks like throwing fuel on a fire. And the last thing I need is for lionbacker to get embroiled in the board wars.

So I beg you guys, to just forget about it. It's like what karateman says: "We accept opposing opinions to what is stated. Remember people, everyone has a right to their own opinion. Don't let it get personal, because after all, we are all hoping for the best in regards to the Lions." Anyway, I've always considered you guys good friends. Especially you sly. We've tried to find the best circumstance to talk lions football for so long. Back to our days on the DLMB. And I hope you take this from a friend... just forget about all that nonsense. The sooner you all do, the faster we can just get back to what's the focus here. Lions Football.

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October 15th, 2005, 5:03 pm
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Honolulu_Blue wrote:
Which brings me to you guys sly and billy. I suppose I could pm you guys, but I have nothing to hide. I am a little concerned with how this 'migration' is going about.


Honolulu_Blue wrote:
And my biggest fear is that some kind of board war will start between the underground and lionbacker. I came to lionbacker because I was tired of board politics and have been happy ever since.


Honolulu_Blue wrote:
And the last thing I need is for lionbacker to get embroiled in the board wars.


HB, I agree with you assesment. For this reason, I am going to lock up this thread. It seems as though enough has been said about the LU and it shouldn't be brought up since these "board wars" could spawn. That's the last thing almost every poster here wants. Quite a few regular posters rarely even frequent other sites and we don't want problems to start due to personal vendettas or anything else. Hopefully, this will be water under the bridge from now on and everyone can move on and talk some SERIOUS, INTELLIGENT LIONS FOOTBALL!!!

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October 15th, 2005, 5:22 pm
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