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 Time for New Blood in Detroit, Down with the Good Ole Boys! 
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RIP Killer
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BIGROC34 wrote:
Since people want to jump every little word let me say this and leave it at that. I don't want any coach that has already had a Head Coaching Job in the NFL already...Black, White, Pink, Yellow, Green or Purple.

I would like to see the Lions hire a Qualified Black Head Coach..Period. I would like to see one of these Quailified Black Coaches get a chance in Detroit. Will I cry if they don't No I won't becuase frankly I doubt if WCF would do it.

I love would to never ever have to have this discussion but for people to act like everything is EQUAL in the world of NFL Coaching or for ANY job in the U.S.A. for that matter is naive. I think the majority of people or let me say I would hope for the majority of people that it would not matter but the COLD HARD FACTS of not only NFL Coaching Jobs but most jobs in general is that things are not EQUAL and sadly I doubt they ever will be.

I am sure many of you responding to this thread are genuinly down with everyone getting equal opportunity, but unfortunately folks in the real world we are so far away from that happenning none of us will ever see that day and doubt any of our children ever will.


And the reason things are not equal is because of people, like you, who want to hire based on race rather than qualifications. Equality is a process, not an event. If a very qualified coach is available, should it matter whether he is black or white? Why scream for more black coaches? Why not want more white players? If black players only respond to black coaches, then they are being racist. I don't see white coaches demanding white players. It seems the Pistons don't have an issue with Flip, why should the Lions have an issue with a white coach?

Racism and discrimination go both ways. And the truth is, there is no real equality in the world, never will be. It's a path, but will never truly be a destination. True equality will only happen when there is one race, one gender, one social class, one size and strength, and one level of looks in all manner of creatures.

I don't want a black coach, or a white coach, or a yellow coach. I do, however, want a coach that bleeds Honolulu Blue and Silver once he gets here, and I want all our players to do the same. Follow a leader, not a color.

And no more orange shirts worn by our hometown fans. OK?

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January 5th, 2006, 8:02 pm
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lionsfanak wrote:
I just don't get how the fact that they are black or hispanic is a factor or should be a factor. The players won't respond to or respect a coach if he were a former player -ala Kubiak- because he's white? It looks like you still want the good ol' boy system to me. You just want it to be the other good ol boys.

Personally I don't care, as long as they win. I've posted it before " I don't care what they do as long as they win". Black, white, yellow or purple. Interview them all and pick a winner.


And...

m2karateman wrote:
BIGROC34 wrote:
Since people want to jump every little word let me say this and leave it at that. I don't want any coach that has already had a Head Coaching Job in the NFL already...Black, White, Pink, Yellow, Green or Purple.

I would like to see the Lions hire a Qualified Black Head Coach..Period. I would like to see one of these Quailified Black Coaches get a chance in Detroit. Will I cry if they don't No I won't becuase frankly I doubt if WCF would do it.

I love would to never ever have to have this discussion but for people to act like everything is EQUAL in the world of NFL Coaching or for ANY job in the U.S.A. for that matter is naive. I think the majority of people or let me say I would hope for the majority of people that it would not matter but the COLD HARD FACTS of not only NFL Coaching Jobs but most jobs in general is that things are not EQUAL and sadly I doubt they ever will be.

I am sure many of you responding to this thread are genuinly down with everyone getting equal opportunity, but unfortunately folks in the real world we are so far away from that happenning none of us will ever see that day and doubt any of our children ever will.


And the reason things are not equal is because of people, like you, who want to hire based on race rather than qualifications. Equality is a process, not an event. If a very qualified coach is available, should it matter whether he is black or white? Why scream for more black coaches? Why not want more white players? If black players only respond to black coaches, then they are being racist. I don't see white coaches demanding white players. It seems the Pistons don't have an issue with Flip, why should the Lions have an issue with a white coach?

Racism and discrimination go both ways. And the truth is, there is no real equality in the world, never will be. It's a path, but will never truly be a destination. True equality will only happen when there is one race, one gender, one social class, one size and strength, and one level of looks in all manner of creatures.

I don't want a black coach, or a white coach, or a yellow coach. I do, however, want a coach that bleeds Honolulu Blue and Silver once he gets here, and I want all our players to do the same. Follow a leader, not a color.

And no more orange shirts worn by our hometown fans. OK?



Very Well said LF-Ak and M2K!! Excellent.

It's sad this even has to come up.

Your posts both speak volumes of trurth - I can only hope that others will be able to handle that.

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January 5th, 2006, 8:44 pm
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What's appalling to me is that any coach's success or lack of same would ultimately be attributed to skin color. Gawd, it sickens me!

There is talent on this team. Hire the coach who'll bring it out. Hire the coach who'll turn this team into a TEAM!


January 6th, 2006, 6:48 am
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Bubbles the Lion

Joined: October 16th, 2005, 10:22 am
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m2karateman wrote:
BIGROC34 wrote:
Since people want to jump every little word let me say this and leave it at that. I don't want any coach that has already had a Head Coaching Job in the NFL already...Black, White, Pink, Yellow, Green or Purple.

I would like to see the Lions hire a Qualified Black Head Coach..Period. I would like to see one of these Quailified Black Coaches get a chance in Detroit. Will I cry if they don't No I won't becuase frankly I doubt if WCF would do it.

I love would to never ever have to have this discussion but for people to act like everything is EQUAL in the world of NFL Coaching or for ANY job in the U.S.A. for that matter is naive. I think the majority of people or let me say I would hope for the majority of people that it would not matter but the COLD HARD FACTS of not only NFL Coaching Jobs but most jobs in general is that things are not EQUAL and sadly I doubt they ever will be.

I am sure many of you responding to this thread are genuinly down with everyone getting equal opportunity, but unfortunately folks in the real world we are so far away from that happenning none of us will ever see that day and doubt any of our children ever will.


And the reason things are not equal is because of people, like you, who want to hire based on race rather than qualifications. Equality is a process, not an event. If a very qualified coach is available, should it matter whether he is black or white? Why scream for more black coaches? Why not want more white players? If black players only respond to black coaches, then they are being racist. I don't see white coaches demanding white players. It seems the Pistons don't have an issue with Flip, why should the Lions have an issue with a white coach?

Racism and discrimination go both ways. And the truth is, there is no real equality in the world, never will be. It's a path, but will never truly be a destination. True equality will only happen when there is one race, one gender, one social class, one size and strength, and one level of looks in all manner of creatures.

I don't want a black coach, or a white coach, or a yellow coach. I do, however, want a coach that bleeds Honolulu Blue and Silver once he gets here, and I want all our players to do the same. Follow a leader, not a color.

And no more orange shirts worn by our hometown fans. OK?


I am deeply affended by your statement that things won't ever be equal because of people like me. I am not the problem here. The problem is all the people who think things will just change and work themselves out. If it were up to people like you things would still be the way they are. Obviously you have never been passed over for a job or position becuase of discrimination or don't know ALOT if people who are discriminated on a daily basis. I never ever said hire someone just becuase they are black. Never did say this. I said I was hoping them hired a QUALIFIED Black Coach not a token hire, but everytime someone of a minority race speaks up the MAJORITY alwasy cries how things WILL BE EQUAL and HOW EVERYTHING SHOULD BE FAIR when in fact the MAJORITY does not play by these rules at all. The reason this is not an issue in the NBA is becuase they don't have this problem. The NBA owners learned long ago that minorities are just as talented and deserve opportunities just like everybody else.

Why is it so hard for people to believe that RACISM runs rampant thorughout all of society and in the USA where everyone is supposed to be EQUAL it is the big ELEPHANT that noone wants to discuss especially the MAJORITY. The MAJORITY is desparately trying to convince non-minorities that their jobs are being taken away by unqualified minorities when in fact the MAJORITY stills holds the MAJORITY of all jobs in this country and the cronyism and GOOD OLE BOY Network is just as prevelant as it as always been.

As long as people continue to be ignorant of the truth and start accepting that people that don't look like, talk like or dress like them can do just as good a job as them this will always be an issue.

The fact that you come on hear and attack me just proves the point even more. There is an old saying that says "Until you walk a mile in somebody else's shoes you cannot understand their point of view."

The bottom line is noone is stopping white players form playing in the NFL or NBA or any other sports but the Fact is Minority Coaches and Front Office Jobs have been denied to qualified candidates time and time again throughout the history of the NFL and it is the reason that the Rooney Rules exists. If things were allowed to continue down the same path they always had not much would have changed.

The people that want to attack me I urge you to stop just reading the words black and white and understand that human nature is that people will hire people they fill comfortable with and all to often non-minorities are not comfortable with people who do not look like them. Do I WISH it were not the truth of course, but I would by naive to believe otherwise especially when I experience some type of overt racism on a daily basis. It might only be walking into a store to buy something and the suspecious eyes that follow-me throughout the store, but it exists and is alive and well to this day.

I consider myself a well rounded individual that has had the opportunity to have multiple college degrees and have had the opportunity to go to school with all races and have friends from all backgrounds that I interact with on a daily basis. I do not live in a bubble. I just live in the real world and know cronyism and racism is alive and breeding in this great country of ours.

Some of you can continue to live in a la la land and think as is well and perhaps were you live or your life is such but as a Black Man I have no choice but to live in reality and am reminded on a daily basis that I must work harder to get the same opporunity that others get just becuase they look different from me. This does not make me racist or part of the problem it makes me a realist that understands the nature of man and sometimes the nature of man is ugly, very ugly!

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January 6th, 2006, 2:36 pm
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I didn't attack you, so stop drumming up your own sympathies by making this out to be some sort of 'us versus you' event.

Yes, you did state you wanted a qualified coach. But you also said you wanted a qualified 'BLACK' coach. That makes your statement racially motivated. If I had come on and said I hope they hired a qualified white coach, tell me you wouldn't portray me as a racist.

You sit there and automatically assume many things about me. That I am white, that I have never faced discrimination or have had to deal with it, that I ignore the truth. It is you who are the attacker here, not the remainder of us. It is also you who is making racially motivated statements, not the rest of us.

You want a coach of color, the rest of us want a winning coach regardless of color. Now tell me who is being discriminatory.

I work for a very large corporation and as such I work with people of all races, creeds and upbringings. My only concern is to work with people who do what they are being paid to do.

In my statements in my first post I stated the unequivicable truth. If everyone were of the same color in the world, men and women would discriminate against each other. Thin and fat would discriminate against each other. The 'beautiful' people would make fun of the 'ugly' people. The strong would prey on the weak. The young would make fun of the old, the old would belittle the young.

Discrimination takes on many forms, not just black versus white. The first discriminatory acts in this world didn't involve black versus white, it involved brother against brother. And just about every person on the face of this planet has discriminated or been discriminated against. Tell me Roc, have you ever not gone out with someone because of their looks? Have you ever made fun of someone because of their poor intelligence, clumsiness, handicap, different height? Then you are discriminating.

So spare me your 'I've been wronged' speech. It happens to everyone in one form or another. As I stated before equality is a process, not an event. It doens't just happen with the flick of the switch. There are many black coaches who are doing quite well in the NFL and I'm happy for them. Also remember one thing else. Racism doesn't just run rampant in the USA, it has existed all over the world long before the USA was even a discovered country. Accept it or not, discrimination is a human trait. Undesirable, but very real. You are part of it on both the giving and receiving ends, just like the rest of us. So stop trying to set yourself apart from the rest of the world, because the sooner you act like you're part of it the easier it will be for the rest of us to accept you as part of it.

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January 6th, 2006, 3:10 pm
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Quote:
but as a Black Man I have no choice but to live in reality and am reminded on a daily basis that I must work harder to get the same opporunity that others get just becuase they look different from me


This would actually depend on your location and how strongly affirmative action is enforced in your area, its not the same everywhere which is why so many people have so many different stories about who gets what job, who works harder, who gets the freebie, etc...in your area you may have to work harder, while in other areas less qualified black men(or women) may get the job over a more qualified white man(or woman). I mention this because you mentioned the Majority complaining of less qualified minorities getting jobs over a higher qualified Majority member, and it does happen, but it depends on the area you live in, and even deeper the company, office, school, etc.... that your applying to, in some cases a minority may have to work twice as hard to get into a school or workplace in others they may get in even though they are far less qualified then others, remeber the University of Michigan's little burst in the news for giving minority's free points on tests on account of affirmitive action? do you honestly think that was the only school in the country that does it? It happens all the time, and its just as wrong as forcing a minority to work twice as hard, but we all know it's never going to change. Only suggestion I have to minority's that are having troubles with job's, school's etc.... is to find a more affirmitive action friendly area, and move (if possibly of course) and take advantage of it, its there so you might as well.


January 6th, 2006, 3:13 pm
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Bubbles the Lion

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m2karateman wrote:
I didn't attack you, so stop drumming up your own sympathies by making this out to be some sort of 'us versus you' event.

Yes, you did state you wanted a qualified coach. But you also said you wanted a qualified 'BLACK' coach. That makes your statement racially motivated. If I had come on and said I hope they hired a qualified white coach, tell me you wouldn't portray me as a racist.

You sit there and automatically assume many things about me. That I am white, that I have never faced discrimination or have had to deal with it, that I ignore the truth. It is you who are the attacker here, not the remainder of us. It is also you who is making racially motivated statements, not the rest of us.

You want a coach of color, the rest of us want a winning coach regardless of color. Now tell me who is being discriminatory.

I work for a very large corporation and as such I work with people of all races, creeds and upbringings. My only concern is to work with people who do what they are being paid to do.

In my statements in my first post I stated the unequivicable truth. If everyone were of the same color in the world, men and women would discriminate against each other. Thin and fat would discriminate against each other. The 'beautiful' people would make fun of the 'ugly' people. The strong would prey on the weak. The young would make fun of the old, the old would belittle the young.

Discrimination takes on many forms, not just black versus white. The first discriminatory acts in this world didn't involve black versus white, it involved brother against brother. And just about every person on the face of this planet has discriminated or been discriminated against. Tell me Roc, have you ever not gone out with someone because of their looks? Have you ever made fun of someone because of their poor intelligence, clumsiness, handicap, different height? Then you are discriminating.

So spare me your 'I've been wronged' speech. It happens to everyone in one form or another. As I stated before equality is a process, not an event. It doens't just happen with the flick of the switch. There are many black coaches who are doing quite well in the NFL and I'm happy for them. Also remember one thing else. Racism doesn't just run rampant in the USA, it has existed all over the world long before the USA was even a discovered country. Accept it or not, discrimination is a human trait. Undesirable, but very real. You are part of it on both the giving and receiving ends, just like the rest of us. So stop trying to set yourself apart from the rest of the world, because the sooner you act like you're part of it the easier it will be for the rest of us to accept you as part of it.


I didn't ask for your sympathy and don't want it. I don't know what color you are and frankly don't care, but your statements and feelings toward this subject give me a clue, but who knows. I don't have the time to concern myself with biblical references on this subject or what is going on in the rest of the world when the country, city and state I live in have problems just as serious as others and I believe in cleaning up your own house first.

I think it is great you work in a diverse work force, good for you. This discussion was specific to Qualified Black NFL Coaches and I was trying to keep it there, but others chose to read deeper into so I once again tried to offer some perspective. It is so funny to me that whenever a person or group of people try to talk about inequality we all of a sudden get the masses coming out and saying I am not like that. Well good for all of you that don't participate in descrimination. How about trumpeting that cause for the greater good, becuase I will tell you if it were a case where the majority actually cared about equality these issues would ever come up.

You can continue to tell me how I am wrong about my view, but the FACTS do not support you. The FACT that the Rooney Rule exists supports my viewpoint. If more owners were like Mr. Rooney and shared his views we would not even have to have this discussion atleast not in the context of NFL Head Coaches and others Management Positions in the NFL.

I know many people want race to no longer be a factor in society and I am one of those and you and others seem to feel the same way and funny has it my sounds I believe we are on the same side, but unfortunately for every person like us who want things to be equal there are just as many that don't. Sadly many of the people who are in the positions to actually facilitate change have not chosen to do so and quite frankly I don't think they will unless forced.

I will say once again...I am hoping the Lions hire a Qualified Black Coach, but ultimately I want someone who is a leader whether he is black, white, pink, purple or green. That does not make me a racist I just see Black Coaches doing well and you know the Lions have never gone that route and if one of the Qualified Black Coaches fits the mold Millen is looking for and has his stuff together then give him a shot. I think we all know there are numerous non-minorities who appear to be qualified so no one needs to trumpet their cause, they have always gotten their shot.

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January 6th, 2006, 4:29 pm
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Let's all play nice now, ok? If not, one of us mods moght have to close this little thread.

It sounds like a good debate, but it is a sensitive issue for some, so please, everyone, play nice.

Thx,
Wags

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January 6th, 2006, 5:07 pm
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I feel it sad that this topic is brought up maily for the fact that it should not matter to us the fans what color our coach is as long as he leads us to victory. Honestly I say that there is probably some of discrimination in the nfl but not that much but any discrimitnaion is a shame but we the fans can't argue with each other over it all we can do is hope that soon all of that is taken care of. So what we need to do is not to Dwell on topic of racsim in the nfl but on our team and winning and this somes up exactly what I think

Quote:
I don't want a black coach, or a white coach, or a yellow coach. I do, however, want a coach that bleeds Honolulu Blue and Silver once he gets here, and I want all our players to do the same. Follow a leader, not a color.

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January 8th, 2006, 5:53 pm
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