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 State of the Union Fact Check 
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman

Joined: March 22nd, 2005, 8:42 pm
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Post State of the Union Fact Check
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060201/ap_ ... fact_check

So I guess it was basically just all BS?

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February 1st, 2006, 12:09 am
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Post Re: State of the Union Fact Check
Yorick wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060201/ap_on_go_pr_wh/state_of_union_fact_check

So I guess it was basically just all BS?


IMO they're just being nitpicky... Unless he stands up there and gives some drab drawn out speech involving the complexities of all of the oil markets, and all of the medical programs, and all of.... ext... There are going to be some over-sights. IMO it is wrong to assume that our oil dependency in other regions would not diminish if it is going to diminish in the middle east by 85% by 2025 as Bush stated. Yet people will speculate and cry and whine over little points here and there...

"You can please all of the people some of the time. You can please some of the people all of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time..."

No matter what he said there were going to be people that would pick it apart. Despite having both the Democrats and Republicans providing a standing ovation for multiple points of the speech, others will still continue to bitch.


February 1st, 2006, 2:13 am
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I thought that the Dems were being jerks when they applauded the SS reform failure. They could have just clapped a second or too, but they took it too far, IMO. In fact, all the applause is rediculous. When I am gving each of my eight state of the Union addresse, I will instruct the auidance to clap only at the end of the speech, so my 15 minutes of remarks won't strech to an hour.

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February 1st, 2006, 4:03 pm
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bsand2053 wrote:
I thought that the Dems were being jerks when they applauded the SS reform failure. They could have just clapped a second or too, but they took it too far, IMO. In fact, all the applause is rediculous. When I am gving each of my eight state of the Union addresse, I will instruct the auidance to clap only at the end of the speech, so my 15 minutes of remarks won't strech to an hour.



I thought the Democrats were ridiculous for most of the speech!

They were an embarrassment to public office, they demonstrated why nothing is getting done and proved it's their fault.





At least they didn't wear orange jerseys. :wink:

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February 1st, 2006, 5:50 pm
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LionFan57 wrote:
bsand2053 wrote:
I thought that the Dems were being jerks when they applauded the SS reform failure. They could have just clapped a second or too, but they took it too far, IMO. In fact, all the applause is rediculous. When I am gving each of my eight state of the Union addresse, I will instruct the auidance to clap only at the end of the speech, so my 15 minutes of remarks won't strech to an hour.



I thought the Democrats were ridiculous for most of the speech!

They were an embarrassment to public office, they demonstrated why nothing is getting done and proved it's their fault.





At least they didn't wear orange jerseys. :wink:


It would have been a huge success if they had!!!


February 1st, 2006, 5:58 pm
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LionFan57 wrote:
At least they didn't wear orange jerseys. :lol:


:lol: What would be the political equivalent of the Orange out? Ties with Osama on them?


LionFan57 wrote:
I thought the Democrats were ridiculous for most of the speech!

They were an embarrassment to public office, they demonstrated why nothing is getting done and proved it's their fault.


Where do you get that? I thought they crossed the line on the social security part, but besides that, they didn't do anything that was out of order that I saw. As for it being all their fault, who is in the majority? The Dems can do some things with the filibuster, but for the most part, the Republicans are in total command. I'm not saying that the Dems are blameless for the hellhole that is known as Washington D.C., far from it. Pretty much everybody in Washington has had a hand in what it has become.

Except John McCain. He is infalliable, can do no wrong, and is the saviour of American Politics.


And he looks like a cute little teddy bear.

:shock: Did my fingers just type that. :oops:

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February 1st, 2006, 6:04 pm
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If you cannot see that both Democrats and Republicans were BOTH equally ridiculous then you are blinded by your political predisposition.

Seriously...the whole clap after ever sentence that someone else wrote for the guy is a big fat joke.

I want someone to scream ABRINOFF IS COMING and see all of congress scatter like roaches when the lights are flicked on...LMAO

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February 1st, 2006, 6:06 pm
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theAlphaMale wrote:
If you cannot see that both Democrats and Republicans were BOTH equally ridiculous then you are blinded by your political predisposition.

Seriously...the whole clap after ever sentence that someone else wrote for the guy is a big fat joke.

I want someone to scream ABRINOFF IS COMING and see all of congress scatter like roaches when the lights are flicked on...LMAO


:lol:

I figured out the buzzwords that absolutely require that the whole of Congress give a rousing standing ovation if heard.


Children
setember 11
Hispanics
African Americans
Hispanics
immigrants
AIDS
Troops
education
american workers
Iraqi people
democracy

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February 1st, 2006, 6:33 pm
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I've found the best solution, for me, is to just try not to think about all the nonsense thats going on with our government right now. Probably not a good stance to take however I just end up getting more and more depressed the more I think about the direction our country is headed to. The basic fundamentals of our government have been thrown out, those fundamentals being the checks and balances provided by the three different branches of government. With the recent confirmation of Judge Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court the Republican Party has effectively removed all of those checks and balances (control of the house senate supreme court and president). I'm just waiting to see what Bush decides to do first now that his man Alito was sworn in :( :( :( .


February 1st, 2006, 10:23 pm
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Matt_MIllen wrote:
I've found the best solution, for me, is to just try not to think about all the nonsense thats going on with our government right now. Probably not a good stance to take however I just end up getting more and more depressed the more I think about the direction our country is headed to. The basic fundamentals of our government have been thrown out, those fundamentals being the checks and balances provided by the three different branches of government. With the recent confirmation of Judge Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court the Republican Party has effectively removed all of those checks and balances (control of the house senate supreme court and president). I'm just waiting to see what Bush decides to do first now that his man Alito was sworn in :( :( :( .


I'm not sure that the checks and balances have been "thrown out" just because their are republicans in Congress, the White House, and in the Judiciary. I too am not happy with a largely conservative Judical head. My political philosophy is largely conservative, but not my judicial stance. Conservatives tend to put up this front that they are "tougher on crime" which generally translates into being more harsh on people accused of crimes. I don't agree with that. Especially in a country where far too often you seem to get the "justice you can afford."

That said, I was listening to Bill O'Reily last night... (Oh God, right?)... I happen to like him.. I don't think he's as "objective" as he portrays himself as being, but in general I like the guy. He said that the country NEEDS Alito, Scalia, and the like, along with the Republican Congress, and the President to re-instill morals into our society. Pres. Bush spoke of declining birth rates of teen-age mothers, declining single parent households, declining abortion rates, ext.... You can dispute the #'s if you like, but IMO you can't dispute or dismiss their societial worth if they are in fact true. I'm not religious at all. I went to church last X-mas for the first time in YEARS... I go to wedding ceremonies sometimes... haven't been to mass on Easter in prolly a decade... Still, I'm not so sure a "moral" or "religious" position by our gov. is a bad thing. IMO society is going down the toilet, and needs some of this crap. "Religion is an opiate for the masses."... Maybe that's true... Maybe religion is an unqualified objective human good, with it's worth coming from the end product of behavior rather than ascending into heaven?... who knows??? I sure as hell don't, and anyone that claims to is just talking out of their tail... but undeniably it seems to work...

The bottom line is our government still has to work within itself... Sure one branch is less likely to object towards the other given they are all ideologically similar, but it still has principles to adhere to. And, if you don't like it, there's elections to greatly alter the shape of the Senate and House...

I honestly don't know how I feel about all of this... RP's as O'Reily calls them... Religious Progressives... those that want to see "Merry Christmas" turned into "Happy Holidays" and have "in god we trust" removed from our money... I happen to agree with that sect of people, but whether or not that can be done without degrading the moral culture of our country is highly debatable.


February 1st, 2006, 10:42 pm
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People have been decrying the decline in moral values since the dawn of time, but the total societal breakdown that they usually predict never happens (I think I have heard some say that the fall of Rome was caused by their decline in morals. My knowledge of that era is limited, so I really have no idea). Anyway, I do not believe that America is in a great moral crisis and we need Bush to swoop down and save us from our sins. That is just crap IMO. I definitly agree with you that the government needs to take a moralistic stance on some things, like some of the cloning/stem cell issues that the President mentioned.

As far as saying Merry Christmas goes, acknowledging the fact that someone might not celebrate the same holidays as you does a war on Christianty/morals make. It would be awakward to me if cashiers kept on wishing me a Happy Ramadan or whatever. This kind of pettiness and plain stupidty is why I usually disagree with Bill "the sky is falling" O'Reilly.

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February 1st, 2006, 11:04 pm
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Post Re: State of the Union Fact Check
Yorick wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060201/ap_on_go_pr_wh/state_of_union_fact_check

So I guess it was basically just all BS?


Bush's speech was quite clear and to the point, and had significant substance as far as comparing it to the previous ten years of presidential state of the union addresses.

He was very clear about the energy policy and put forth some excellent ideas on that.

Quote:
HOMELAND SECURITY:

Bush urged Americans to back his secretive domestic spy program, saying he was using his "authority given to me by the Constitution and by statute" and noting that "appropriate members of Congress have been kept informed."

Bush did not address the counterarguments that he failed to heed a separate 1978 law that specifically calls for court approval to conduct the surveillance. Some lawmakers have also questioned why Bush did not brief more than eight members of Congress about the program, which has been in effect since 2001.



The FISA law is a non-factor, FISA is a law passed by congress and as such does not have the power to eliminate the presidents ability to collect foreign intelligence. The only way for FISA to overrule the presidents power is to amend the constitution.

Quote:
SPENDING:

The president said that "every year of my presidency, we have reduced the growth of non-security discretionary spending." That doesn't tell the full story because the category he cited omits big-ticket spending items like Iraq, natural disasters such as Katrina and homeland security.

He spoke of saving taxpayers $14 billion next year if his budget proposals are adopted, not mentioning some of those savings would come from health care programs such as Medicaid.



The mention Katrina as a big ticket item and in the same article they are critical about not spending more on Katrina...

Quote:
KATRINA:

Addressing Hurricane Katrina aid, Bush said a hopeful society "comes to the aid of fellow citizens in times of suffering and emergency" and the government is meeting New Orleans' "immediate needs."

Federal money is indeed being used to build stronger levees and provide business loans and housing assistance. But the government has declined to rebuild levees strong enough to sustain a Category 5 hurricane, and it recently rejected as unnecessary a $30 billion redevelopment plan for Louisiana that state officials considered the cornerstone of their hopes for rebuilding.



February 2nd, 2006, 12:20 am
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman

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So you thought that speech had a high degree of truthiness? :lol:

"He said that the country NEEDS Alito, Scalia, and the like, along with the Republican Congress, and the President to re-instill morals into our society."

WJB, I know you like to debate, but that position is a pretty is a tought one with trials stacked from here to the elections.

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February 2nd, 2006, 12:36 am
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Yorick wrote:
So you thought that speech had a high degree of truthiness? :lol:

"He said that the country NEEDS Alito, Scalia, and the like, along with the Republican Congress, and the President to re-instill morals into our society."

WJB, I know you like to debate, but that position is a pretty is a tought one with trials stacked from here to the elections.


What's weird Yorik... is it is completely at odds with my political ideology... I'm all about a hands off govt. with as few laws as possible... I'm more of a classical liberal (Harm principle) kinda guy than anything, but I really do see family values falling to poop... in part I blame capitalism... in part I blame individual families... and in part I blame American culture (or lack there of... IMO America doesn't have much of a culture and it's more of a cultural vacuum)... but what to do about it???


February 2nd, 2006, 12:47 am
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman

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This is the most corrupt administration in US history. They passed Cleveland a long time ago. You want professional liars and thieves to instill morality in our society?

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February 2nd, 2006, 1:01 am
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