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 Abu Graib Part Deux 
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Bubbles the Lion
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Post Abu Graib Part Deux
More controversial images of the Abu Graib abuse scandals have recently been released to the public. A judge ruled that under the Freedom of Information Act that the public has a right to see the other images and videos which were part of the original scandal but never released publicly. The latest round of images and videos are said to be even worse than the originals. Here's the link to the story...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4715540.stm

This could not have happened at a worse time for the US. The UN wants the US to close Guantanamo Bay because of alleged acts of torture occuring there. Human rights organizations in Europe are claiming torture by the US is occuring elsewhere in the world (Eastern Europe). Now this, everything seems to be piling on the US at once and the fact that there are worldwide muslim riots occuring does not bode US troops in muslim countries. I think there will be a strong backlash as a result of the newest photos and videos. Time for the Bush regime to resign! Seriously though I think we have to give thought to closing Guantanamo at the least to appease our detractors. Is there realisticly anything else we can do to stop this seemingly worldwide anti-US sentiment??

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February 15th, 2006, 10:22 am
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Modmin Dude
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All this public outcry for the poor little terrorists, where is the public outcry when those bastards behead someone on live TV????

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February 15th, 2006, 10:24 am
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Something must be wrong. I didn't find it very disturbing.


February 15th, 2006, 11:04 am
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TheRealWags wrote:
All this public outcry for the poor little terrorists, where is the public outcry when those bastards behead someone on live TV????
It's not about terrorists. It's about suspects whose guilt has not been proven in a fair trial - in fact, in no trial at all.

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February 15th, 2006, 12:35 pm
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Silversurger wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
All this public outcry for the poor little terrorists, where is the public outcry when those bastards behead someone on live TV????
It's not about terrorists. It's about suspects whose guilt has not been proven in a fair trial - in fact, in no trial at all.


Yeah, and is there a problem with this???? Sorry, we are at WAR and we should not be playing Mr Nice Guy or Mr Goodie Two-shoes we should be kicking their asses and doing WHATEVER necessary to obtain intelligence so that we can stop as many threats as possible. And before you get all high and mighty on me, do you honestly think that this didn't happen during WWII or WWI????? The same stuff happened then but you didn't hear the liberal media or the cry-babies bitch about it then, did ya??? NOPE and do you know why (at least part of the reason)??? The reporters and journalists in the War were in the MILITARY; none of these damn liberal bastards to screw it up and twist the stories for ratings.

Let the soldiers FIGHT they way they're taught and get the damn media out of there. IF that were to happen, the War in Iraq would be finished by the end of the year, if not a helluva lot sooner.

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February 15th, 2006, 12:46 pm
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Wags...war with a nation we voluntarily choose to fight. The Republican Guard of Iraq are soldiers who were defending their country as I would expect we would do the exact same thing. I just can't so flipantly call anyone from the Middle East a terrorist. We call defending our nation noble and it is but so were many of these people that were tortured and tormented. I think soldiers are completely honorable and I respect them beyond explanation. But the U.S. has their name signed to agreements with how to treat P.O.W.s and the right and wrong ways to engage in battle and are have knowingly violated these promises. Iraq was not a terrorist filled nation...it was infact one of the most economically prosperous, highest education levels, and had the most opportunity for women in all of the middle east. Radicalism did not exist there until Iraq was toppled.

We started a war on their turf based on false pretenses that even the White House had admitted too and we have tortured and murdered some of their service men and it's justifiable? Not only did we violate international laws that the U.S. agreed too it was just plain wrong.

IMO a lot of people have died for nothing other than really bad decisions. We now face a much greater threat in Iran, a country that is run by religeous extremist and that have a real threat of nuclear armorment. And if the U.S. truly thought this threat was a danger they would have much less support from here and from abroad because of the destruction of our credibility during this whole debacle.

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February 15th, 2006, 2:42 pm
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TheRealWags wrote:
Let the soldiers FIGHT they way they're taught and get the damn media out of there. IF that were to happen, the War in Iraq would be finished by the end of the year, if not a helluva lot sooner.
You know what? The war could be finished by the end of the week - let's just drop a huge nuclear bomb on Iraq and there will be no more threat to the civilized world from there - never mind innocent civilians, we all have to make sacrifices. Oh, but there is still Iran and the rest of the middle east - and there are North Corea and China and Sudan and several more evil countries. So let's drop some more nuclear bombs. After all that bombing, those liberal European bastards could become really angry - so better drop some bombs there, too. But what about the terrorists and liberal bastards that live in the USA? There is only one way: Let's drop another bomb! Let's just kill everyone on this damn planet. Then you can be sure that you really have done whatever necessary to stop as many threats as possible...

Enough of that. Can't you see that we are supposed to be on the same side? We all love freedom and justice - and we cannot fight for them by abandoning them.

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February 15th, 2006, 3:34 pm
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Bubbles the Lion
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TheRealWags wrote:
Yeah, and is there a problem with this???? Sorry, we are at WAR and we should not be playing Mr Nice Guy or Mr Goodie Two-shoes we should be kicking their asses and doing WHATEVER necessary to obtain intelligence so that we can stop as many threats as possible. And before you get all high and mighty on me, do you honestly think that this didn't happen during WWII or WWI????? The same stuff happened then but you didn't hear the liberal media or the cry-babies bitch about it then, did ya??? NOPE and do you know why (at least part of the reason)??? The reporters and journalists in the War were in the MILITARY; none of these damn liberal bastards to screw it up and twist the stories for ratings.

Let the soldiers FIGHT they way they're taught and get the damn media out of there. IF that were to happen, the War in Iraq would be finished by the end of the year, if not a helluva lot sooner.


The problem is that we as a country are a part of and helped found the United Nations. We are going directly against the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We are fighting this war with Iraq because of supposed UN nuclear treaty violations. This is hypocritical and goes against what we as a country are supposed to be doing in our war to help liberate Iraq and free them from this man breaking UN treaties.

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Under Article 102 of the Charter of the United Nations, "Every treaty and every international agreement entered into by any Member of the United Nations after the present Charter comes into force shall as soon as possible be registered with the Secretariat and published by it".

On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and "to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories."

Article 5.

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.


http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

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February 16th, 2006, 12:22 am
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The best estimate is that 95% of the torture victims at Abu Ghraib were not terrorists. Most of them were robbers, rapists, and innocent people victimized by informers exploiting trigger happy grunts to settle decades long vendettas. The relevant question to ask is how many family members of the tortured, killed, or raped later joined the resistance to the US occupation? It is quite clear that we are reliving Vietnam and have lost the "hearts and minds" making victory in Iraq all but impossible. Neither has the creation of a new front of terrorism brought the fight to the enemy as so many people gullibly assume. There are 3 times as many people on terrorist watch lists today than in 9/11. Estimates of the Iraqi resistance have gone from 5000 to 30-40,000 with perhaps 50,000-100,000 auxilliaries (it is very hard to count these up obviously and one wonders on whose side the Shia militias of the puppet government are?). AQ in Iraq did not even exist in March 2003, now it is even more powerful and expansive than bin Laden's outfit. The terrorists are obviously getting stronger and our army is at its breaking point. Those of you so eager to trample human rights have the burden to prove that these methods are accomplishing something. The truth is that the Bush administration has never had any counter terrorism strategy (the white plan did not address terrorism. It offered an ambitious blue print for the middle east, but it was only part of larger NAC strategy of one power imperialism) and the continued bungling and repression of any realistic assessment of the threat contrary to Bush's fantasies has precipitated most of our top counter terrorist experts have quit in disgust.

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February 16th, 2006, 1:03 am
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