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 Chris Carter on Joey 
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RIP Killer
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Post Chris Carter on Joey
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=c ... &type=lgns

Quote:
1. Joey Harrington
Wide receiver Charles Rogers has been hurt the last two years, and the Lions didn't have a running game until last season with Kevin Jones. There also have been some bad moves involving other parts of the offense, including an offensive line that's not that great.

With Steve Mariucci's West Coast system, the Detroit Lions are doing the right thing as far as trying to help Harrington succeed. I believe he still has a huge upside, so I wouldn't give up on him quite yet. Five or six years from now, the Lions don't want to be saying they should've kept him.

The 2005 season will be huge for Harrington, the No. 3 overall pick in 2002. He doesn't want the organization to lose confidence in him, but there will be a lot of internal pressure for him to do well.

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April 8th, 2005, 12:15 pm
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Bubbles the Lion

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That's a great article i agree with Chris 100% this is Joey's year to shine it is such an exciting time to be a lions fan i can't wait till the season starts!! =P~

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April 8th, 2005, 12:23 pm
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I know that there will be growing pains, but allowing Joey to change plays, throw from the shotgun, and throw deep will pay dividends. These changes will give opposing defenses more to prepare for and react to.

An argument can also be made that this could be considered Harringtons third, not fourth, season since he missed a significant portion of his rookie year due to his heart condition.

Bottom line, I agree with Carter in that we don't want to look back in a couple of years and see Joey leading another team in the playoffs.


April 8th, 2005, 7:35 pm
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wi LION wrote:
An argument can also be made that this could be considered Harringtons third, not fourth, season since he missed a significant portion of his rookie year due to his heart condition.


You really can't make that argument. Joey has proven to be one of the more durable QB's in the league. He has also started more games in his first three years than most QBs. In fact, he has started in every game the last two years and only missed two games his rookie year (and started 12 games that season).

In the Lions 48 games since Joey was drafted, he has played in 46 and started 44. He also has not missed a single Lions playoff game since ariving in Motown. :oops: :oops: :oops:

If there is one thing you can't knock Joey on, that is durability.


April 8th, 2005, 7:57 pm
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I thought that he missed 4 to 5 games due to his heart.

But your're right he hasn't miss a singlr playoff game.


April 8th, 2005, 8:33 pm
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About Carter's point about the Lions will miss Joey in 5 years.

I think that the Lions are more concerned about missing McMahon down the line than they are Joey.

Mike has much more upside than Joey ballgame, IMO. I don't know what Carter was saying that Joey has great potential... I just don't see it. He doesn't have a cannon for an arm. He doesn't have toughness. He doesn't take chances. Where is the potential in his game? Joey has no pocket presence, i'm sick of watching him wet his pants standing in the pocket.


April 9th, 2005, 1:13 am
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I disagree with brian. Joey Harrington has more of an upside than you think. wait 5 games into 05' and you ll see. sounds like a good poll :lol:

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April 9th, 2005, 1:48 am
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:arrow: Joey will be fine this year. He has had his difficulties, but look at all the advirsity he has had to deal with in his first three years. A broken Charles 2 years in a row, a very questionable offensive line, no running game and Marty Morningweg 5squeeze.gif just to name a few.

The line started to show signs of improvement and DeMulling should help. KJ should provide for a good ground game now. A healthy Rogers and Williams should help open up the passing game as long as "Mooch" lets go of the leash some this year.

I have even heard rumors that "Mooch" is considering letting Joey run a no-huddle offense some to take advantage of some of Joey's strong suites. If Joey falters this year, I'll be one of the first to call for his head, but let the "piano - man" do his thing this year without a noose around his neck.

:arrow:


April 9th, 2005, 6:44 pm
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Brian, I agree with you 100%. No huddle offense w Joey? I dont see how that works with his strengths. This year in a two minute drill during a kill clock play Joey faked a throw before spiking the ball. Pretty stupid play during a clutch situation...


April 9th, 2005, 6:53 pm
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The Legend wrote:
Brian, I agree with you 100%. No huddle offense w Joey? I dont see how that works with his strengths. This year in a two minute drill during a kill clock play Joey faked a throw before spiking the ball. Pretty stupid play during a clutch situation...
I didn't rember the pump then spike thing. That does sound like a stupid thing to do, but not too big a deal either. To be fair I think Harrington had some good moments in the hurry-up last season. I'm not all that excited for them to try the hurry-up when there's planty of time left. I've seen other teams take stabs at that and it's never very impresive. They always slow it way down at the criticle moments, the pace and intensity are different, the play calling is different. I just don't think the hurry-up works unless the offence truely has to hurry.


April 9th, 2005, 8:30 pm
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loyallion23 wrote:
Joey will be fine this year. He has had his difficulties, but look at all the advirsity he has had to deal with in his first three years. A broken Charles 2 years in a row, a very questionable offensive line, no running game and Marty Morningweg 5squeeze.gif just to name a few.

The line started to show signs of improvement and DeMulling should help. KJ should provide for a good ground game now. A healthy Rogers and Williams should help open up the passing game as long as "Mooch" lets go of the leash some this year.


The thing is, everything anyone can basically say in Joey's defense, can be turned right around at him.

Poor receivers - I guess i'm in the minority when I say that it's more of the quarterback delivering a catchable ball than the receiver getting open. Peerless Price was great in Buffalo. He was in an offense where the QB delivered a solid ball (Bledsoe). He went to Vick's awful quarterbacking and started declining. Brett Favre made Bill Schroeder look like a god.

Running game - When we finally got a running game (Kevin Jones, week 10), Joey played poorly. He only had one game with a quarterback rating above 82 (which is about average for QBs in this league), when Jones was putting in 80-180 yard games each week.

Offensive line - As poor as it has been described as, the bottom line is that Joey hasn't been sacked, Jones was able to find holes, and they improved as a unit as the season progressed.

I just don't see "it" in Harrington as a quarterback. He isn't a playmaker. He will never become an elite quarterback in this league. He is just a guy who we hope will become able to operate this offense. He isn't a pro bowl player. I don't see him becoming anything special, and neither did Sherman Lewis. He has some of the worst pocket presence ever, and doesn't have a strong arm, his accuracy is even suspect. And the worst thing about Joey is his leadership. He has no control of this team, no one rallies around him, and he doesn't get in anyone's face. He's too soft.

I don't like him as a QB. Does that mean we shouldn't play him? Does that mean draft a QB at #10 or even trade up for him? No. But if I don't see results this year, I don't think Joey will be here any longer. I already am planning for Garcia to beat him out midway through the season and the Lions to have another dismal season, because we are a team in the midst of a quarterback controversy. There aren't teams out there that win games when they don't have a QB donned "the guy" in their offense. Joey isn't that guy.


April 9th, 2005, 9:05 pm
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You make some valid points.

The receivers ARE poor. Williams was hurt half of the season, and every one of them had a case of the drops. I might be in the minority to say that drops ARE the receivers fault if the ball hits them right in the numbers or right in the hands, which a whole lot of them did. Granted Joey threw a lot of horrible passes, but if he gets the ball there, they've GOT TO catch it. I don't completely buy in to the quarterback's delivery as a reason for the drops. I would think it would be virtually impossible for every ball that a QB throws to have that special "touch" to it that makes it easy to catch, especially given some of the pressure situations that most of them are in.

The playcalling on the team is atrocious most of the time. You can't really have a viable threat of a running game, if the coaching staff doesn't know how to utilize it, which Mooch and company don't seem to be able to as of yet.

Joey doesn't get sacked because he usually doesn't hold on to the ball long enough. I don't think that fact is a glowing endorsement for the O line. Joey isn't very comfortable when the pocket collapses (which it did quite often) and he gets rid of the ball quickly (which he did quite often), and that's a problem.

I think that often times the view of the team is skewed. When Joey first started, that team was CRAP. It's slowly been built and as such, Joey has slowly improved. How many guys aside from Raiola has he played with consistently? The revolving cast certainly doesn't help any.

Detroit suffers too much from the "savior" syndrome. One person is not going to come in and save this team. They're all young and they need to have some time to play and grow together.

Joey needs to play better. And he should have to compete for the starting position - and may the best man win. I'm just afraid that getting rid of him now will be a huge mistake. The revolving door of QB's in Detroit hasn't exactly gotten us very far....

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April 10th, 2005, 12:14 am
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Brian and BonitaChiquita,

I'm reading both your points and I agree with different parts of both.

As far as the receivers go - I have to go with the pretty banana (God, I can't believe I'm saying that) they have not gotten it done. Understandably CR was out and RW played hurt but the rest couldn't catch a cold.

And Brian I think you're right on - Joey has been soft. Can you imagine Bret Favre not jumping in someone's face and demanding a better performance. You are right on when you say he has no control and no one rallies around him.

As for the O-line - yes they improved as the season went on and true Joey didn't get sacked that often but lets face it, a) we where always behind and throwing to catch up; so defenses were dropping back into coverage. And, b) Even with that Joey was hurried - he had very little time.

Having said that I think adding DeMulling will help this year.

I agree that Detroit does suffer the savior syndrome and that Joey has improved but you can't let a rotating supporting cast be an excuse for poor play or leadership skills.

As for play calling - it's been so predictable at times it's just not funny. That positively won't help.

I think the bottom line is that there won't be any more excuses - this is the year Joey has got to deliver. I only hope he gets a chance and Mooch doesn't pull him to soon.

(It's a great conversation though - thanks for letting me but in).


April 10th, 2005, 12:59 am
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Just so you know the only reason I have that screenname is because the one that I usually use: bonitachickita, was already taken on the Detroit Lions board which Pablo kindly recruited me from! :)

I agree. The bottom line of it all is that there are no more arguments and no more chances. He either gets it done this year, or he's out.

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April 10th, 2005, 1:11 am
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Banana unit-
I am sorry but Joey was highly ineffective in time constricted situations last year and throughout his NFL career. The defense repeatedly gave the offense chances last season to win or go to OT with a score on the final drive and they blew it over and over. at DAL, vs WAS, at JAX, at MIN, at GB, vs MIN (missed XP), at TEN... Unless Garcia is hurt I really dont see any way that Joey beats him out in camp. Still the Lions may go with Joey to start out anyways which hurts me. Joey is a headcase and once you become a headcase you need to find somewhere else to play bc handling you becomes a real struggle for the coaching staff...When players stink but continue to play not on merit but rather bc of a fragile psyche something is terribly wrong.
As for the coaching staff being so terrible and ineffective with the running game. WHAT!!! They basically got KJ to 1000 yards in half the season when he was healthy...I dont wanna hear any savior nonsense, this team has been built w loads of young talent. They are not looking for a savior. If they were they would do what the stupid Raiders did and add players like Moss at the cost of young players and draft picks. The QB simply needs to play well just as everyone else is expected to.


April 10th, 2005, 6:36 pm
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