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 Lions to trade pick for Abraham? 
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Water Boy

Joined: April 10th, 2005, 11:42 pm
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Post Abraham
I like Abraham but not as much as i like Howard. I know about Swilling but we are just trading down 6 spots to pick up a solid player in Howard.
I worry about Abraham because of his lack of toughness. We could get way more value out of the 16th pick than out of the 10th. Some draft gurus have said that Big Mike , Pool, and Clayton, all could fall that far.
If we trade with the Jets we would pick at 26th and thats too far for an injury prone plater that did not show up for the playoffs and is considered a cancer on his current team.

OUT


April 11th, 2005, 10:36 pm
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Howard and the 16th pick? Now that would be a totally different story, that deal I would go for in a second. But I don't see the Saints biting on that one.


April 12th, 2005, 4:13 am
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While Abraham's has been a decent player the last few years he has been subject to injuries at inoppotune times. Both playoff qualifying and playoff games.

I agree that the Lions do NOT need someone of this character on the team. It's too hard to develop a chemistry, which I think the Lions are doing, while adding a player of this type.

Millen ought to RUN away from this deal.


April 12th, 2005, 9:15 pm
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At 2, 3, 5, 6 wins and we are talking chemistry? If you suck and can add a good player you do it. Face it, there is not much to disrupt here.


April 13th, 2005, 1:19 am
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The Legend wrote:
At 2, 3, 5, 6 wins and we are talking chemistry? If you suck and can add a good player you do it. Face it, there is not much to disrupt here.


Legend, you don't just add talent without taking personality into consideration. If he was that good, why are the Jets shopping him? Any player who refuses to play in a playoff game that he is perfectly capable of playing in because he doesn't want to risk injury to ruin his upcoming UFA chances at a big contract is not welcome. He's a problem child and the Lions would be foolish to trade for him, especially at the Jets asking price.

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April 13th, 2005, 6:50 am
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The Jets are already a playoff team. We are not. They are fine tuning to take the next step and have veterans who may object more to Abraham's actions. Our team lacks talented veteran players and is built full of younger players. I am by no means in love with Abraham but if you can pick up a talented veteran in a position of relative need and remain in the same round of the draft it could boost that curve of getting into the playoffs.
Most players do get at least a second chance. God forgives mike, when will you?


April 16th, 2005, 11:57 pm
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1. I do not see DE as such a position of need that we should risk bringing in a player who has demonstrated he has no clue as to what the team concept is, and probably never will

2. The Lions have the cap under control (finally) and Abraham figures to 'break the bank' wherever he goes, so I'd rather it wasn't here.

3. I am not God, and neither is any of us. My mercy does not extend to the level that His does.

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April 17th, 2005, 6:16 am
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good point mike w the cap ramifications, i am not sure what we would have to compromise to make him fit into our budget... Abraham is better than Kalimba, Redding and James Hall, you cant deny that, he would be an upgrade.

why did you say finally though? Its not like this team has been unable to bring in players bc of the cap? We did have some dead money with Batch, H. Moore contracts and guys suddenly retiring but there was still cap space. Millen spent that money on fools like Bill Schroeder, Mikhael Ricks...


April 17th, 2005, 10:25 am
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Does anyone know offhand what Kalimba Edwards cap # is this year and what would be the cap hit if we traded him or cut him?

I be willing to bet that if a trade like this for Abraham (or a similar deal with New Orleans for Darren Howard) came down, Millen would be looking to deal Edwards.


April 17th, 2005, 11:54 am
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The Legend wrote:
good point mike w the cap ramifications, i am not sure what we would have to compromise to make him fit into our budget... Abraham is better than Kalimba, Redding and James Hall, you cant deny that, he would be an upgrade.

why did you say finally though? Its not like this team has been unable to bring in players bc of the cap? We did have some dead money with Batch, H. Moore contracts and guys suddenly retiring but there was still cap space. Millen spent that money on fools like Bill Schroeder, Mikhael Ricks...


I said finally because the spending is now controlled. Long term contracts to players like you pointed out (Schroeder, Ricks, etc.) were necessary to try and make some roster upgrades. The players weren't coming here and needed to be baited financially. They also demanded long term contracts and the Lions were in no position to refuse. The recent one year deals made with Alexander, Streets, etc. are the control I'm talking about. Just being under the cap for the year is not enough, but being able to manipulate figures long term is the control I allude to.

Abraham is a quality player, but not a quality team player. Over and over players with character issues come back to haunt teams. Onterrio Smith is one failed drug test away from a year long suspension. Terrell Owens signs a seven year deal and is already claiming he was wronged. Can you remember Reggie Rogers? He had character issues and he came back to haunt the Lions. I would prefer to keep the players we have at defensive end than to trade for a selfish player like Abraham who will demand a long term contract with a ridiculous signing bonus, and then in a year or two claim he's underpaid because he is credited for nine or ten sacks in a season. And in my estimation that's exactly what would happen if the Lions trade for him.

I know you think we need a pass rusher. Guess what? So do I. I feel that we can safely label Kalimba Edwards a bust due to reoccurring injuries. Redding is limited athletically and probably will never be a pass rushing force. But we don't need John Abraham. And we really don't need his selfish nature in the locker room.

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April 17th, 2005, 1:59 pm
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LionFan57 wrote:
Does anyone know offhand what Kalimba Edwards cap # is this year and what would be the cap hit if we traded him or cut him?

I be willing to bet that if a trade like this for Abraham (or a similar deal with New Orleans for Darren Howard) came down, Millen would be looking to deal Edwards.


Kalimba Edwards signing bonus figure for 2005 is $425,000. His salary is $490,000 for the year. Basically, the Lions can very much afford to cut or trade him. Should the Lions draft a pass rusher, he is likely to become a June 1st cut. I don't see the Lions trading for either Howard or Abraham. Their contract demands will be too high.

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April 17th, 2005, 2:04 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
Kalimba Edwards signing bonus figure for 2005 is $425,000. His salary is $490,000 for the year. Basically, the Lions can very much afford to cut or trade him. Should the Lions draft a pass rusher, he is likely to become a June 1st cut. I don't see the Lions trading for either Howard or Abraham. Their contract demands will be too high.



M2K,

I don't entirely disagree with you, I've got a number of reservations about such a trade myself. I'm just not prepared to discard the idea altogether without knowing more about it first.

But I have 2 questions for you:

1) Do you feel as strongly about Darren Howard who has also been the subject of a very similar trade?

2) Where did you find the data on Edwards so quickly? Is that in your head or is there a website that you referenced?


April 17th, 2005, 2:53 pm
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LionFan57 wrote:
M2K,

I don't entirely disagree with you, I've got a number of reservations about such a trade myself. I'm just not prepared to discard the idea altogether without knowing more about it first.

But I have 2 questions for you:

1) Do you feel as strongly about Darren Howard who has also been the subject of a very similar trade?

2) Where did you find the data on Edwards so quickly? Is that in your head or is there a website that you referenced?


I don't feel as strongly in regards to trading for Darren Howard, but I still feel it's a deal the Lions can't afford to make. Unless Howard is willing to be reasonable in his negotiations, I don't think it happens.

As for how I got the data for Kalimba Edwards, there is a website put together by a gentleman known as NetRat (real name Greg) who keeps information in a spreadsheet regarding the Lions players salaries and payment structuring. It's not altogether accurate, but I have found it to be real close.

http://www.obc.net/greg/lions.html

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April 17th, 2005, 3:04 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
As for how I got the data for Kalimba Edwards, there is a website put together by a gentleman known as NetRat (real name Greg) who keeps information in a spreadsheet regarding the Lions players salaries and payment structuring. It's not altogether accurate, but I have found it to be real close.

http://www.obc.net/greg/lions.html


The best info I've found in regards to salaries AND signing bonuses.


April 17th, 2005, 3:21 pm
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Absolutely. This is great. Thanks.


April 17th, 2005, 4:37 pm
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