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 Say it ain't So 
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Stadium Announcer

Joined: March 31st, 2005, 9:27 pm
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Harrington is da man

I agree this will be his break out year. Maybe not statistically but as a leader of the team. I believe that he realizes that its up to him to get pissed and not help the person who sacked him up without making a comment and then letting his lineman know about it. If he can't do this then he needs consider a new career.

I do like Joey and think that he has been a victim of poor play calling and lack of support. The offense has not exemplified his strengths, the long ball. Yet he does need to leard the touch of the dupm off.

Final point, I live in Wisconsin and have since Favre has started. He was not a favorite for many years because he made too many poor decisions with too many interceptions. It wasn't until his third full season that he started to establish himself. He has had some great seasons but he has had some terriable ones as well.

Favre or Montana - Montana
Favre or Elway - Elway
Favre or Young - Young

Who cares what unless you win it all!


April 12th, 2005, 9:43 pm
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wi LION wrote:
m2karateman

I agree with what you've said.

Except I heard that Bill "2" ordered the draft of Joey not Millen.

Either way this is the first year Joey has a running game and receivers who can hold on to the ball. At least thats the picture.

I'm also encouraged by Tollner calling the plays. Mooch was so predictable that he DC's knew what he would do two plays ahead of him.

What was Mooch's fasinication with the dump off, on third and four, for two yards and not going for the first down? Yeah I know he expected the RB to pick up the extra yards. But when it failed over and over again why didn't he call something different?


If it was Bill 2 that made the call, all the more reason for Mooch to put his pride in neutral and deal with the situation at hand. For now it has moved beyond Millen to the General of the Army. More and more, myself included, fans are beginning to realize that Mariucci is not the consumate play caller some thought he was when he was hired here. I remember some SF fans telling Lions fans that we would regret that move. It may yet happen, and that would be a shame. Millen has helped produce some strong drafts, and I'd hate to see his tenure end or be tainted because of head coaching hirings and firings. But make no mistake, if someone is going to leave, it will be Mariucci who goes before Millen. William Clay Ford has a very strong relationship with Matt and makes most personnel decisions based on Millens advice. Mariucci must devise a more vertical game plan and put it into play effectively or the remaining three years on his contract may be bought out. I think Millen is interested in one thing, and it's not Mariucci's future, or even his own. I think he wants to build a Super Bowl contender in Detroit and will do what it takes to make that happen. If nothing else just to shut the mouths of the people who doubted that he could do it.

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April 12th, 2005, 9:45 pm
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Wow....you guys are too insightful. I gotta find another place to talk. Not enough people to argue with here. LOL.

I dunno what to make of the Mooch/Millen relationship. I think Millen should have a tighter leash on Mooch, but I also think a coach needs control of the team. I really just don't trust Mooch.

I think, as it stands right now and on paper, Joey has all the tools necessary to succeed this year. Even before the draft, we have added a solid O-linemen, we have aded a proven veteran TE, we have seen what Jones can do, it seems both Rogers and Williams will be ready to go, Tollner "says" the offense will be tweaked. The offense should shape up nicely this year.

If all of this works out and Joey can't step up, then I'm there screaming for his head, no doubt. I'd like to see them sign another WR though because I don't think Rogers will stay healthy and Az is not capable of stepping up out of the slot.

We have some things to look forward to. I'm being real careful not to get my hopes up because something always happens, but this could be the year the offense finally clicks.

But none of that can ahppen if Joey is not given the reigns to run with. The future of the team relies on discovering whether Joey is or isn't the answer.

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April 12th, 2005, 10:23 pm
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I love a good argument!!! As long as I know what I'm talking about and have a point to prove...hmmm.


April 12th, 2005, 10:24 pm
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Actually, I think that the Garcia acquisition will put more pressure on Mooch that Harrington.

If Harrington fails it isn't on Millem beceause he drafted him, which didn't happen brcause the ford's forced it, it's on Mooch because he's supposed to be the offensive guru.

Mooch has always followed an offensive creator in his positions but has yet to follow through on his own.

Show me the money Mooch.


April 12th, 2005, 10:39 pm
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I think its funny how excuses are made for Joey, Millen but not for Mooch. Mooch is a proven winner on this level, making playoff runs with an inherited 49er team and then rebuilding a young team and making it back to the playoffs. Oh yeah, who was Mooch's QB on those teams? Garcia. The same guy who despite a down season last year was still statistically better than Harrington and with much less surrounding talent. 49ers advantage? They had a great president Carmen Policy who knew what he was doing!!! We have MILLEN who has made one great trade in 4 years and gotten lucky w/ one of several injured draft picks (S Rogers).
I completely disagree with the idea that the president should have a tighter leash on a head coach to the point where he controls his post game speech, playing time decisions, and reprimands him in private. You cant criticize a guy for not succeeding when you are overruling his decision making, in essence telling him what to do! Let him do his thing and judge whatever results HE gets. Otherwise you have to look at yourself. Milllen is overpowering enough, more control is just scary. This is a guy who thought he could win with inferior talent who simply had the right attitude. That is the insight he gained from the booth, MIKE. 5 wins preMooch and 11 wins w/ Mooch! By the way Joey was throwing those 3 yard passes to RBs well before Mooch showed up here, the RBs are the fifth of five options on those plays but Joey looks to them 2nd.


April 13th, 2005, 1:17 am
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OK Legend, some things you failed to mention. Mooch took over a team that was built for the offense he would be running from the coach who basically taught him what he knew. Marty was Mariucci's recommendation to Millen and Mooch's protege', so the five wins can be linked to Steve. Also, Millen had to tear down this team and everyone knew it. Look at how much dead cap space we had when he came into town. It was gonna get ugly and anyone who knew the score knew that to be true. So don't blame Millen for that, he did what needed to be done. Mariucci lived through that in San Fran. In no way has Mariucci succeeded here in Detroit. I like that Steve doesn't go off on the media or publicly lambaste his players, but his refusal to show any support for Joey has been highly noted in the press. As for Joey making passes to the running backs when they are his last option, do you know that for sure? As I recall, Garcia made plenty of throws to his running backs in San Francisco. I also know that to try and read through five targets in less than four seconds is near impossible. And tell me, what's your explanation for what occurred at the end of the season when Joey was throwing for higher yardage when the QB coach was calling plays, per Matt's direction? The game was more vertical and things were opening up. And who normally does the playcalling? Steve has his strong points as a coach, but his ingenuity and conservativeness isn't among them. His plays need to be tweaked, case closed. There is a reason why a coach who went 10-6 and took him team to the playoffs gets fired. What do you suppose that was?

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April 13th, 2005, 6:46 am
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m2karateman wrote:
There is a reason why a coach who went 10-6 and took him team to the playoffs gets fired. What do you suppose that was?
It really had almost nothing to do with play calling. That was about a new owner (he's been called the worst owner in sports :oops: ) doing one of MANY stupid things.

I like Millen, Mooch, and Harrington. IMO all three have to bring in results this season and I think all three know it.


April 13th, 2005, 7:00 am
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I think the problem that most people have with Mariucci is that they expected him to come in and make a huge impact, based on his experience in SF. He did a good job keeping a good team in contention during his days there, until they hit salary cap hell. The real test to a coach is whey they have to make a horrible team good. They have improved, just not as fast as people had hoped. So therefore, people are questioning his ability as a coach.

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April 13th, 2005, 7:02 am
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As a coach I think Mariucci does well, but as a playcaller I think he has failed to make the type of impact he should. His game is monotonous and predictable and lacks creativity. Teams have it figured out. An offensive coach has to change things year to year to remain effective. He also has to work with the players he has instead of wishing for other players. My biggest knack against Mariucci other than that is his obvious lack of support for Harrington. He has got to make things work with him.

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April 13th, 2005, 7:24 am
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Mooch hasn't lived up to the expectations!! He also seems to be very stubborn. I believe a good coach tweaks his system to fit the personnel that he has on hand. Mooch has forced Harrington to do it his way, no matter what. Joey needs a system that he is comfortable in to succeed. If the OC can do that and keep Mooch happy by running the WCO (as much as possible) than thats ok.

As for keeping a tighter rein on Mooch, I certainly don't agree. Millen has had a hands off approach to letting his head coaches run the team. I just hope Mooch does the same thing with the OC. If the OC has to look over his shoulder, wondering if Mooch is happy with the plays he calls, than he won't be very effective.

I just wish Joey would've called plays in the huddle of what he thought they should do and not cared about what Mooch thinks. Maybe he would get more respect from his teammates.

I think Mooch has been a professional in his job. He just hasn't been the type of leader I expected. Mooch's play calling stinks!!


April 13th, 2005, 8:44 am
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I think I mentioned this before but Wojo (Bob Wojonowski sp?) was on the radio and was discussing who some things that you hate about a player/coach/gm are the things that make them great as well.

Mooch is frustrating because he is slow to change and not reactionary. That gets maddening when for the 1st half of the season EVERY 1st down was a run play. On the other hand it can be a great strength as well. Who wants a coach that panders to the whims of the media and fans. He didn't get where he is today by being a total dolt. In Millens 1st 2 years I was extremely down on him but I think he has come a loooooooooonngg way. I also am NOT and never have been a big Joey supporter but IMO he still has a chance to be good enough to lead a team to the promise land. I am not saying he has been that good but we have all seen the occasions when he can thread the needle down field as good as anyone.

I guess thats why I mentioned the coordinators earlier because I think if the offensive play calling gets more agreesive then Joey will be more effective. For whatever reason I do not believe his arm likes 5-7 yard passes...

I would also compare Mooch to some basketball coaches who play a slowed down style because they lack the talent to run and gun. Many coaches despite their lack of talent can overachieve by playing extremely conservative ball and eating up the clock. In the NFL you can simply win games by being the team that doesn't turn the ball over and playing smart. Also he apparent lack of love with Joey could be many things. I always felt that Mooch would end up putting Mike in and that never happened. But there are many coaches that push their players by not showing them favor and blowing sunshine up their butt. And we have no idea about the private conversations that occur with the coach and his players. I will say from day one with Mooch...I knew we had a media savey guy who could play it to his favor (how did I know...because he didn't speak in broken English was one clue LMAO GG Bobby, Marty :lol: )

In the end we really don't know poop until we see what happens on the field. Like last years draft...what freakin expert predicted Matt Millen would swindle other teams and steal potentially 2 of the best players from that class from under every elses nose?

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April 13th, 2005, 9:21 am
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Post Re: Say it ain't So
HarringtonFan17 wrote:
I have been hearing so many rumors


Rumors are teh gheyness. Pay them no mind. There are way too many people around passing themselves off as connected to "sources" and blah blah blah. Look at the Killer, it is his entire job to know what's going on and he is wrong like 80% of the time :roll:

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April 13th, 2005, 9:56 am
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