View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently July 22nd, 2014, 8:05 pm



Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 Az & Marion RELEASED 
Author Message
Varsity Benchwarmer
User avatar

Joined: March 23rd, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Westland
Post 
conversion02 wrote:
He probably realized that young, fast guys are the key to the future. Not old slow vets. Granted, I think Marion got shafted because Walker played like poop all last year, but that's the breaks.

They need to cut Walker too. If they cut him as well, I'll do a jig.

Rundown on the CAP savings:
1. Hakim's base: $2.35 mil, SB allocation $1.05 mil. 05 Cap number was $3.4 million. Cutting him saves the base, but moves the 06 allocation of $1.05 into 05, thus the 05 cap hit is $2.1 million instead of $3.4 million, for a savings of $1.3 million. ... or just take the $2.35 million base and subtract the $1.05 acceleration from 06 for a $1.3 million total.

2. Marions base is $1.35 million. He has 06 and 07 allocations of $375K and $375K (counting only the SB allocations). Subtract those two from the base and we get a savings of $600K.

Total savings from two cuts pre-June 1 for 2005 cap is $1.9 million.


Why aren't you counting this years bonus number as well?


April 25th, 2005, 8:56 pm
Profile YIM WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pm
Posts: 10286
Location: Sycamore, IL
Post 
Are you asking for Az's contract because he's signed through 06?

Only his SB for 05 affects the 05 cap. Hence subracting his 05 cap from his 05 salary, giving us $1.3M cap savings for 05. Next year, in 06, we would eat his $1,050,000 SB for that year.


April 25th, 2005, 9:07 pm
Profile
Varsity Benchwarmer
User avatar

Joined: March 23rd, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Westland
Post 
conversion02 wrote:
Are you asking for Az's contract because he's signed through 06?

Only his SB for 05 affects the 05 cap. Hence subracting his 05 cap from his 05 salary, giving us $1.3M cap savings for 05. Next year, in 06, we would eat his $1,050,000 SB for that year.


I thought the 06 SB would accelerate to 05 and there would be no money against the cap in 06 for Hakim??


April 25th, 2005, 10:11 pm
Profile YIM WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9848
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
thedanzone wrote:
I thought the 06 SB would accelerate to 05 and there would be no money against the cap in 06 for Hakim??


Az had a cap figure of 3.4 million this year, but that included his signing bonus. They save his salary of 2.35 million, but are still liable for 2.1 million for the 2005 and 2006 signing bonus. It saves them only $250,000 looking at it that way. However, the Lions would have to take the signing bonus hit anyways. So the consideration of the savings being $1.3 million comes from the idea that we are cutting his salary this year of $2.35 million, but picking up his 2006 signing bonus in 2005 of $1.05 million. Understand?

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


April 25th, 2005, 10:34 pm
Profile
Varsity Benchwarmer
User avatar

Joined: March 23rd, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Westland
Post 
m2karateman wrote:
thedanzone wrote:
I thought the 06 SB would accelerate to 05 and there would be no money against the cap in 06 for Hakim??


Az had a cap figure of 3.4 million this year, but that included his signing bonus. They save his salary of 2.35 million, but are still liable for 2.1 million for the 2005 and 2006 signing bonus. It saves them only $250,000 looking at it that way. However, the Lions would have to take the signing bonus hit anyways. So the consideration of the savings being $1.3 million comes from the idea that we are cutting his salary this year of $2.35 million, but picking up his 2006 signing bonus in 2005 of $1.05 million. Understand?


Yeah, I understand the math, but not the logic. Considering the money they can now spend from cutting Hakim is only $250,000 why pad it to 1.3 mil when the can't spend the whole 1.3mil?


April 25th, 2005, 10:57 pm
Profile YIM WWW
5th Round Pick - Traded
User avatar

Joined: November 15th, 2004, 7:24 am
Posts: 1055
Location: Alaska
Post 
I am sort of confused by the releasing of Marion. The only thing that comes to mind is that the Lions are expecting someone to get the ax after June 1. Does anyone know of any safeties due to be released after June one?


April 26th, 2005, 1:22 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9848
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
thedanzone wrote:
Yeah, I understand the math, but not the logic. Considering the money they can now spend from cutting Hakim is only $250,000 why pad it to 1.3 mil when the can't spend the whole 1.3mil?


Look at it this way. If Az had remained on the team and played this season his cap figure would have been $3.4 million. Since they cut him pre-June 1st his cap figure is $2.1 million. You are looking at strictly his salary minus two years of signing bonus. The signing bonus from this year shouldn't be deducted from his salary, just the SB from next year.
If this was the last year of his contract and they cut him, the savings would be his entire salary, right? Because there is no way they can make up the signing bonus in the overall savings. It's money already on the books.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


April 26th, 2005, 6:53 am
Profile
NFL Team Captain

Joined: January 27th, 2005, 9:12 pm
Posts: 1610
Location: Midland, MI
Post 
All I can say is please sign James Butler before someone else does. We need someone back there bigger than Mooch


April 26th, 2005, 6:42 pm
Profile
National Champion
User avatar

Joined: April 12th, 2005, 12:35 am
Posts: 881
Location: Boston, MA
Post 
Actually, I hear that the Lions were pretty close to resigning Az Hakim to a lesser deal. The problem was that, when Matt Millen handed Az the pen, he dropped it in the end zone. \:D/


April 26th, 2005, 10:50 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Player
User avatar

Joined: April 5th, 2005, 7:03 am
Posts: 7411
Location: Ford Field - 35 yard line / Row 32
Post 
Strawberries&Chocolat wrote:
Actually, I hear that the Lions were pretty close to resigning Az Hakim to a lesser deal. The problem was that, when Matt Millen handed Az the pen, he dropped it in the end zone. \:D/



That is frickin' funny. LMAO.


April 26th, 2005, 10:54 pm
Profile WWW
League MVP

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
Posts: 3530
Location: WSU
Post 
i dont like either cut. looks like we are not saving anything by cutting az bc having a lesser player replace him this year + SB allocation is more than just keeping him. Further last season was Az' best season as a Lion as he made big plays for us especially early in the season when we were winning. This year we would finally have a chance to use him appropriately as a #3 WR bc of the high likelihood that Roy and Mike will actually be healthy. If this cut made financial sense I would agree with it. Hakim is being judged by his performance in 03 and 04 where he was basically the #1 WR and asked to do things he wasnt brought here for...
hope we will find a starting caliber FS in case Holt doesnt pan out...


April 27th, 2005, 1:02 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9848
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
The Legend wrote:
i dont like either cut. looks like we are not saving anything by cutting az bc having a lesser player replace him this year + SB allocation is more than just keeping him. Further last season was Az' best season as a Lion as he made big plays for us especially early in the season when we were winning. This year we would finally have a chance to use him appropriately as a #3 WR bc of the high likelihood that Roy and Mike will actually be healthy. If this cut made financial sense I would agree with it. Hakim is being judged by his performance in 03 and 04 where he was basically the #1 WR and asked to do things he wasnt brought here for...
hope we will find a starting caliber FS in case Holt doesnt pan out...


Kevin Johnson straight up would be a better player. At a reduced payscale of $1.3 million, Johnson is a bargain. Az made fewer 'big plays' than what you allude to, and had more big drops than what you offer. Johnson may not be as fast, but runs better routes and has FAR better hands. You can't score if you can't catch. And if you check your history, Az WAS brought here to play flanker, which is the top receiver in the WCO. Your arguments are flawed.
I do agree that the Brock Marion cut came too early. They should have waited until they at least had a quality backup or promising rookie to play behind Holt. Vernon Fox is neither.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


April 27th, 2005, 4:02 pm
Profile
League MVP

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
Posts: 3530
Location: WSU
Post 
Mike,

I was mostly writing about Hakim vs a 5th receiver that may now make the team such as Vines or Kircus. Hakim is def better than both, we will be proceeding with a less talented player unless the Lions use the capspace generated to add someone else who is better. As for KJ you are just delusional and expecting that the grass is greener somewhere else.

The Ravens were starving for receivers worse than we were, the first red flag that should go up is that he was cut by them. Sorry to break it to you but one of the reasons he has been released 3x in two years now is that he doesnt care to run routes with precision, his hands are no longer as exceptional as they once were and he gets frustrated bc he is no longer a no.1 wideout.

Johnson 16 G 35rec-373, 1 td, 6 plays>20 yards and 19 first downs.
Hakim 12 G 31-533, 3 td, 9 plays>20 yards and 24 first downs.

Hakim did drop some balls but dont bs me by saying that he is supposed to be the #1 WR in our offense as a flanker, you know that is wrong. When Az came here they were expecting Crowell and Schroeder to be the top receivers with Az as a big play slot guy, problem was Crowell never made it back. As for the big plays, yes they were there (>17 yards a catch). Hakim was a big part in wins vs CHI and ATL and kept us in games vs WAS and MIN. If you saw those games there is no way you can argue. Vs WAS especially he showed his toughness and was one of the few guys in that game playing with a sense of urgency. Joey left him out to dry in that game but Hakim did his best and played damn well. His reward, an injury that kept him out the next 4 weeks. I know you will probably laugh off any assessment that Hakim is actually a tough player but you are wrong. This is a guy that came back after a hip dislocation and is now regaining his form. That injury runs the risk of amputation bc in such an injury the bone compresses the blood flow to the hip (Bo Jackson).


April 27th, 2005, 8:25 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9848
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
The Legend wrote:
Mike,
As for KJ you are just delusional and expecting that the grass is greener somewhere else.

Johnson 16 G 35rec-373, 1 td, 6 plays>20 yards and 19 first downs.
Hakim 12 G 31-533, 3 td, 9 plays>20 yards and 24 first downs.

Hakim did drop some balls but dont bs me by saying that he is supposed to be the #1 WR in our offense as a flanker, you know that is wrong. When Az came here they were expecting Crowell and Schroeder to be the top receivers with Az as a big play slot guy, problem was Crowell never made it back.


Likewise, don't try and BS me. When Az was brought here Crowell had just had surgery and it was understood that he would NOT be ready for the beginning of the season and possibly have to go on the IR for the season. Az was brought in to play FLANKER, not the slot, at the onset of the season. IF Crowell was able to make it back and return to form, then Az would be moved to the slot. He didn't get a third receiver FA contract, he got a starting WR contract.

I'm not going to argue with you about Johnson's personality problems. I understand all that. But he is still a better possession receiver. As a fourth wideout with a contract less than half of Hakims, he's a better value and more easily expendable should he prove to be too much of a headache. Also, I never questioned Hakims toughness, not once. His comeback from his hip injury is something I admire, as it has kept more than a few away from the game for life. I'm sure that the Lions would have kept Az had he been willing to renegotiate his contract. Those are details we may never know. I wouldn't have minded seeing Az remain on the roster if they could have reduced his cap number, but that's not our call. As for the numbers you show, they are a good argument as long as you don't look at Kyle Boller and take into account how inconsistent he was.

You mentioned games that Az helped us win or kept us in. I think Eddie Drummond did more toward keeping us in games than Az did. Also, you failed to mention the passes Az dropped that ended potential scoring drives, or certain scores that were dropped. I'm looking at Az getting cut as more of a financial thing. But his drops were certainly taken into account by Millen and Mooch. Your arguments to have him stay on the team obviously weren't enough in their eyes, and wouldn't have been in mine. I have nothing personally against Az. I wish him well. But his performances never justified his inflated pay.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


April 28th, 2005, 1:21 pm
Profile
Pro Bowl Player
User avatar

Joined: April 19th, 2005, 2:10 pm
Posts: 2478
Location: Michigan
Post 
:finger: thebirdman.gif bootyshake.gif argue.gif boxing.gif


April 28th, 2005, 2:27 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.