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 Has Cris Carter lost his mind? 
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Post Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
Freep wrote:
Is Calvin Johnson one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL? Not according to one ESPN analyst
Calvin Johnson not one of the top five receivers in the NFL? That’s what one prominent ESPN analyst said this morning.

“Calvin Johnson, he’s very, very good at Madden or Tecmo Bowl or whatever they’re playing now,” ESPN’s Cris Carter said on the Mike & Mike in the Morning radio show. “But out on the field when I watch film and I break down the film, he’s not to the point of these guys yet. That doesn’t mean he can’t play, he’s just not there yet.”

Carter listed his top six receivers as Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Greg Jennings, Reggie Wayne, DeSean Jackson and Roddy White.

When host Mike Greenberg read an email saying Calvin Johnson is just as good as the Houston Texans’ Andre Johnson, Carter interrupted to say, “The only thing that they have the same is the name.”

Taken one pick after the Detroit Lions chose Charles Rogers in the 2003 draft, Andre Johnson has five Pro Bowl appearances and three 100-catch seasons. Calvin Johnson, entering his fifth NFL season, is coming off his first Pro Bowl and has never caught more than 78 passes in his career.

“I can’t put you in the top five if you’re not worthy,” Carter said. “His route-running isn’t worthy of the top five, his consistent playmaking week in and week out. Man, I don’t care who they put out there, they throw a ball near you, catch it, son.”

When Greenberg and another ESPN analyst, former coach Herm Edwards, said Johnson’s numbers may not match some other receivers' because of the quarterbacks he’s played with, Carter said he didn’t buy that argument.

“Calvin Johnson, right now you don’t have to double team him to take him out of the game,” Carter said. “Now, I made eight Pro Bowls, I made it with five different quarterbacks and they weren’t always great so I don’t want to hear the excuse that I’m not playing with a great quarterback. Larry Fitzgerald last couple years hadn’t played with a great quarterback but he still gets the numbers, he still gets open, he still makes plays week in and week out. So I don’t want to hear about the quarterback situation. That’s all part of the process.

“Now he is a good player, he’s just not great yet.”


Johnson had his best season last year catching touchdowns from three different quarterbacks. Matthew Stafford started just three games because of injuries, and Shaun Hill (10 starts) and Drew Stanton (three) also played significant minutes.

At 6-foot-5 and 236 pounds, Johnson is one of the most physically gifted players in the NFL. He ranked 27th overall and fourth among receivers (behind Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald and White) in an NFL Network poll of the game's top-100 players for 2011 this off-season.

“He’s emerging,” Carter said. “He’s going to be there, but he hasn’t gotten there yet. I can’t just put him in the top five.”

Contact Dave Birkett: 313-222-8831 or dbirkett@freepress.com. Follow him on Twitter @freeplions.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110812/S ... ext|SPORTS

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August 12th, 2011, 12:02 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
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Has Cris Carter lost his mind?


No. I think arguments can be made either way. Anyone see the Jets game lat year - a very winnable game (one pointer). CJ was covered by Revis and got an early catch on the first drive - after that, nada. He had the same number of catches as our other Johnson, Bryant.

The best play their best in the big games against the best.

I think Carter's point is he needs to be consistently great to be considered one of the greats and I can't argue him for that.

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August 12th, 2011, 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
I think the quarterback comments are usually not valid because even a bad QB usually tries to get it to their best player, the problem is that the Lions QB's DO NOT throw to Calvin for some reason.


There is some games where he gets no (0) targets the entire quarter. Calvin can only catch whats thrown to him, and sometimes there is no balls even coming his way.


August 12th, 2011, 12:18 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
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“Now he is a good player, he’s just not great yet.”




I guess some writers use this same argument as to why Chris Carter isn't in the HOF yet.

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August 12th, 2011, 12:29 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
Pablo wrote:
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Has Cris Carter lost his mind?


No. I think arguments can be made either way. Anyone see the Jets game lat year - a very winnable game (one pointer). CJ was covered by Revis and got an early catch on the first drive - after that, nada. He had the same number of catches as our other Johnson, Bryant.

The best play their best in the big games against the best.

I think Carter's point is he needs to be consistently great to be considered one of the greats and I can't argue him for that.


I agree Pablo! For all the potential Calvin still hasn't proven anything yet.

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August 12th, 2011, 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
Pablo wrote:
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Has Cris Carter lost his mind?


No. I think arguments can be made either way. Anyone see the Jets game lat year - a very winnable game (one pointer). CJ was covered by Revis and got an early catch on the first drive - after that, nada. He had the same number of catches as our other Johnson, Bryant.

The best play their best in the big games against the best.

I think Carter's point is he needs to be consistently great to be considered one of the greats and I can't argue him for that.



I give alot of credit to Revis. I remember seeing him reach in between Johnsons hands and knock the ball away on a couple of plays. I do wonder if Johnson would have benifited from a 1rst or 2nd string QB though? Not taking anything away from Revis, AWESOME corner, just really would like to see if Johnson would do better against a cornerback of that caliber with a better QB.

As for Carter's point that he had played with 5 different qb's, it was over a much greater period of time.

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August 12th, 2011, 1:00 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
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Why Cris Carter is right - and very wrong - about Detroit Lions' Calvin Johnson
Published: Friday, August 12, 2011, 12:10 PM
Updated: Friday, August 12, 2011, 1:56 PM
By Tom Kowalski

ALLEN PARK - According to several reports, ESPN's Cris Carter said today that he doesn't believe the Detroit Lions' Calvin Johnson is among the top six receivers in the NFL.

According to Carter, the top receivers are Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Greg Jennings, Reggie Wayne, DeSean Jackson and Roddy White. A very impressive list and, since it's just Carter's personal opinion, nobody should have a problem with that.

Carter, though, really gets himself into trouble when tries to defend his position by saying, "Calvin Johnson, right now you don't have to double team him to take him out of the game.''

I watched every play that Calvin Johnson ran last year in person and then I watched every play again (at least once) on tape. Carter was quoted as saying he came to his conclusions because "I break down the film.''

Fair enough. Carter, a soon-to-be Hall of Fame receiver, certainly knows a great deal about football and the passing game. I'd be curious to see if he could be more specific about EXACTLY what tape he's referring to that shows Johnson can be taken out of the game with single coverage.

There were two games last year when Calvin Johnson was held to one catch - a 13-yarder against the Jets and a 44-yarder against the Packers. In that Green Bay game, the Packers had Charles Woodson stuck to Johnson underneath and always - always - had help over the top. Woodson is going to be a Hall of Famer and deserves a lot of credit for the job he did on Johnson but he certainly didn't do it alone.

In the Jets game, New York cornerback Darrelle Revis played a lot of one-on-one against Johnson (like he does against every receiver in the league - including the Cris Carter Six). Johnson beat Revis on a 13-yard slant in the first three minutes and then didn't catch another pass.

I went back to my notes from the breakdown of that film. Remember that crucial rollout/incomplete pass by Drew Stanton that was such a key play in the game in the fourth quarter? Here's what I said about it then: "On that third down, the Jets put eight in the box and doubled Calvin Johnson on the outside - apparently the Jets don't have THAT much faith in Revis Island. Anyway, the Lions run the bootleg ...''

With the game on the line, the Jets double-teamed Johnson. Again, I think we'd like to see the many film examples that show Johnson can be taken out of the game with single coverage.
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August 12th, 2011, 2:06 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
While I don't exactly agree that CJ is "good, not great", I do believe that Carter has a point in that great players find a way to get the ball. It's not that our QBs were simply not throwing to CJ. There were a number of times last season, particularly early in the season, that the ball was thrown his way and he didn't make the catch. This is the same thing I was saying when I suggested early last year that the Lions should field offers to trade CJ in exchange for draft picks and a starting quality LT (Marcus McNeill was the name most prominently mentioned). Every excuse was made as to why Calvin wasn't getting the ball. Now that the players have more quality players at other positions, I wouldn't consider it. However, at the time we didn't have those players and we didn't really know how good some of our newer players were. Backus wasn't playing too well, and Stafford was on the sidelines (again) as a result because of the Peppers planting.

I firmly believe Calvin is THE MOST athletically gifted receiver in the league, ever since he stepped foot onto the NFL playing field that's basically been true. However, he doesn't make the most of those gifts. Carter is dead on about Calvin's route running. It is not as sharp as it should be. He tends to round off his cuts, and often takes too long to turn on his breaks. Andre Johnson has worked with different QBs and has not had too much talent around him, yet he's found ways to get the ball.

I don't believe Reggie Wayne or Greg Jennings are as good as Calvin. However, they ARE more consistent pass catchers and are better at getting open.

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August 12th, 2011, 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
Seifert wrote:
Cris Carter's takedown of Calvin Johnson
August, 12, 2011
By Kevin Seifert

I know. I know. I KNOW. ESPN analyst and friend of the NFC North blog Cris Carter sent Detroit Lions fans into a rage Friday morning by omitting Calvin Johnson from his personal list of the NFL's best wide receivers.

You can listen to Carter's appearance on "Mike & Mike in the Morning" through this link . The receiver discussion begins at about the 16-minute mark.

Carter put six players in his group of elites. In order, they were:
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Greg Jennings
Reggie Wayne
DeSean Jackson
Roddy White

When a listener suggested that Calvin Johnson should be ranked on par with Andre Johnson, Carter said: "The only thing they have the same is the name."

Carter went on to say: "Calvin Johnson, he's very, very good at Madden and Tecmo Bowl or whatever they're playing now. But on film, when I watch film, and I break down the film, he's not to the point of these guys yet. That doesn't mean he can't play. He just not there yet."

Carter also didn't accept co-host Mike Greenberg's suggestion that Johnson's career has been bogged down by poor and/or inconsistent quarterback play. Carter replied:
"... We're trying to determine greatness and impact on the NFL game. Calvin Johnson, you don't have to double-team him to take him out of the game. Now, I made eight Pro Bowls. I made it with five different quarterbacks. They weren't always great. So I don't want to hear the excuse that I'm not playing with a great quarterback.

"Larry Fitzgerald the last couple years, he hasn't played with a great quarterback, but he still gets the numbers. He still gets open. He still makes plays week in and week out. I don't want to hear about the quarterback situation. That's all part of the process. Now, [Calvin Johnson] is a good player. He's just not great yet."

I know these kinds of rankings spur debate and get everyone fired up, but you probably know by now how irrelevant I think they are. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and Carter provided his -- forcefully as always. Is Calvin Johnson the best receiver in the NFL? No. Is he one of the best? Most people would say yes. Is he among the top six? Who cares?

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post?id=29806

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August 12th, 2011, 4:29 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
I think Carter has over stated his "research" on this... but premise is not far off. We rate CJ high because of almost proven potential, not results. Carter wants him to put up to shut up (not that CJ is that big of a trash talker mind you). He hasn't performed or put up stats to the level of some of these other guys and I think Carter doesn't want excuses for that, which I can kinda see. I do think he went far in saying that he can be taken out with single man coverage, because that just isn't the case. CJ just needs one more 1300 yard season and people will stop suggesting he is not top 5. With what I think he can do, a 1400-1500 yard season this year he'll be ranked higher.

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August 12th, 2011, 5:45 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
CJ has led the league in TD's atleast once if I remember correctly.


August 12th, 2011, 5:54 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
His analysis wasn't off, but his "watching tape" is bogus. Everyone has played CJ with double or triple coverage or they've paid dearly. GB played Woodson + safety all game long. Revis stuck on CJ with Safety help. I pray teams listen to Carter and try to single cover CJ all season.


August 12th, 2011, 6:03 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
njroar wrote:
I pray teams listen to Carter and try to single cover CJ all season.


Touchdown everytime.


August 12th, 2011, 6:04 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
hamma77 wrote:
CJ has led the league in TD's atleast once if I remember correctly.


He tied with Fitz (12) his rookie year and was tied for 2nd (12) last year as well, Bowe lead the league with 15 (Jennings also had 12 last year).

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August 12th, 2011, 6:16 pm
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Post Re: Has Cris Carter lost his mind?
I understand yards are really important too but at the end of the day it's about getting in the end zone. Getting 400 yards as a team and scoring only 13 points does not mean your a good offense.

I don't see anyway numbers included he's not a top 5 receiver. I can understand the argument of him not being the best..but top 5 I don't get it.


August 12th, 2011, 6:28 pm
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