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 "Dirty" play 
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Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

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Post "Dirty" play
I thought about posting this in the thread about Suh's fine but I think it warrants its own thread.

It's clear that Suh is now "on the radar" as a repeat offender when it comes to personal fouls and late hits. It doesn't matter if the reputation is fair or if the rules are stupid. He is going to be targeted by officials, fined by the league, and will almost certainly be called "dirty."

However, I hope he continues playing the same way. For once, Detroit has a player that is legitimately feared, and it is hits like the ones on Delhomme and Dalton that contribute to this fear. If reducing penalties also means reducing Suh's intimidation factor, then I say it's not worth it. I'd rather have opposing QB shaking in their boots before the game even starts, even if that means the Lions give up a first down and 15 yards. People are going to criticize Suh for being undisciplined but I think that is the effect Schwartz wants.

Remember last year when Bart Scott said the Lions were dirty? The exact quote was "dirtiest football team I played since the Titans." That's right--the Titans were well-known as "dirty" players under Jeff Fisher...and Jim Schwartz. Here's a link about it that surfaced after Scott's remarks last year: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/07/bart-scott-calls-lions-a-dirty-team-compares-them-to-the-titans/

ProFootballTalk wrote:
It’s fitting that he’d mention the Titans. Coach Jim Schwartz spent several years as the Titans’ defensive coordinator before coming to Detroit.

Even now, the Titans have a reputation for goading opponents into personal fouls via allegedly dirty tactics.


My guess is that Schwartz not only tolerates aggression and intimidation from players like Suh and Vanden Bosch but probably encourages it. Anybody see the smirk on Schwartz's face during the press conference when he discussed the personal fouls in the Bengals game? Killer wrote about it here in case anyone missed it: http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2011/08/the_jim_schwartz_smirk_speaks.html If you watch the presser, you'll see the smirk. He's practically grinning.

Obviously the penalties aren't a desired effect but likely just the cost of playing the game so aggressively. Fans will criticize Schwartz for not controlling the team and the players will be called undisciplined or dirty. I'm beginning to believe that this is all part of the plan.

Thoughts?

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August 18th, 2011, 2:33 pm
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Post Re: Dirty play
mwill2 wrote:
I thought about posting this in the thread about Suh's fine but I think it warrants its own thread.

...

Thoughts?



My thought is, Why do you think this warrants its own thread? I don't get it.

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August 18th, 2011, 2:51 pm
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Post Re: Dirty play
I think because he wanted a thread discussing if "Dirty Play" is an intentional tactic of this coaching staff, and not so much tied to a single player. Thats an idea we may contginue to discuss all season or even beyond as more evidence is compiled, whereas none of it may have to do with Suh (likely some of it will). Just my .02.

Also I think he meant "Play" as in "How you Play the game" and not as in "That specific Play where Suh tackled Dalton".


August 18th, 2011, 2:53 pm
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Post Re: Dirty play
this is why Fairley is a perfect pick

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August 18th, 2011, 2:54 pm
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Post Re: Dirty play
thegodjr wrote:
this is why Fairley is a perfect pick


+1 (meaning it is not just Swartz, but also Mayhew)

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August 18th, 2011, 2:56 pm
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Post Re: Dirty play
DJ-B wrote:
I think because he wanted a thread discussing if "Dirty Play" is an intentional tactic of this coaching staff, and not so much tied to a single player. Thats an idea we may contginue to discuss all season or even beyond as more evidence is compiled, whereas none of it may have to do with Suh (likely some of it will). Just my .02.

Also I think he meant "Play" as in "How you Play the game" and not as in "That specific Play where Suh tackled Dalton".


Correct. This has nothing to do with Suh's fine and therefore doesn't go in a thread about Suh's fine. Pretty straightforward if one actually reads what I wrote. The topic is "Dirty Play" as a strategy.

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August 18th, 2011, 3:06 pm
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Post Re: Dirty play
Pablo wrote:
thegodjr wrote:
this is why Fairley is a perfect pick


+1 (meaning it is not just Swartz, but also Mayhew)

This is why I love this FO and coaching staff, they are all on the same page. That is how you build a winner.

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August 18th, 2011, 4:39 pm
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Post Re: "Dirty" play
I don't necessarily think that Schwartz is encouraging them to play "Dirty", but I think the foundation of this Defense now and well into the future will be that intensity of agressiveness that Suh displayed when he threw Delhomme around like a trainer in the Bear cage in an episode of "When Animals Attack" on the Discovery channel.

I'm sure ALL OF YOU remember the reputation that Bill Laimbeer had in his playing days. EVERYONE but Pistons fans hated his guts, but we LOVED him. Suh is going to be viewed the same way I think. You love him if he's on your team, you'll hate and fear him if he isn't.

I don't want him to go out and commit flagrant penalties that have the potential to cause serious injury to other players. But I DO want him to be a full throttle exhibition of BRUTE FORCE each and every play and someone that other teams fear and constantly have to account for. He just needs to find that fine line between the two, and know when to shut it down when the ball is gone. Go ahead and double team Suh, then it's Corey Williams, Fairley, KVB, or Avril coming at you. Hell, even on the play where he clobbered Dalton, did you see Sammie Hill in there? He was driving back 2 OL and he created that opportunity for Suh. We don't need him making flagrant penalties that cost us points or games late in the 4th quarter, but you have to love what his pressence will do to the psyche of opposing QB's if he can continue to show this "animal like" tendency on the field. I want the opposing QB to be shaking like David Carr back there.

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August 19th, 2011, 2:47 am
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Post Re: Dirty play
LionFan57 wrote:
mwill2 wrote:
I thought about posting this in the thread about Suh's fine but I think it warrants its own thread.

...

Thoughts?



My thought is, Why do you think this warrants its own thread? I don't get it.


Besides, people keep confusing Lionbacker with Footballs future, where everything must be crammed into a select few threads with 100 pages each to sort through. To heck with that garbage.


August 19th, 2011, 9:03 am
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Post Re: "Dirty" play
You know what I like about him is he starting to show that the Lions aren't going to just get pushed around anymore, were going to be hard hitting team.

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August 19th, 2011, 1:10 pm
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Post Re: "Dirty" play
Lions2SB2 wrote:
You know what I like about him is he starting to show that the Lions aren't going to just get pushed around anymore, were going to be hard hitting team.


I think teams got that message last year, from the very first game against Chicago. As I recall, the commentators were going on and on about how physical the Lions were playing, even late in the game. And that never went away, it was a constant throughout last season.

Between Suh, KVB and Delmas other teams have taken notice of just how physical the Lions defense has gotten.

Now if we could just get our offensive line to start punching people in the mouth (not the fans, Dom, the opposing team).

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August 19th, 2011, 2:07 pm
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Post Re: "Dirty" play
OK, so I brought this up in August and thought I'd resurrect the question now since it is all over the media.

While I think a great deal of the coverage on the Lions "dirty" play is a media creation/exaggeration, I firmly believe Schwartz and Co. are happy to accept a few penalties and bad press if it means intimidating the opponent. Obviously it didn't work vs. Chicago but I believe this aggressive attitude has won several games this season.

Anybody else think the Lions are being coached/encouraged to play "dirty"--or right up to the edge of dirty?

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November 14th, 2011, 4:32 pm
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Post Re: "Dirty" play
I think they're being coached to play hard up to - and slightly beyond - the whistle... including pushing the rules to their limits. I also believe it is completely obvious that Schwartz can be given credit for that approach. Aren't those things fairly obvious?

So here's my thinking on that:

- I believe the Bad Boys / Laimbeer analogy is not a very good one. In football, the extracurricular stuff can really end up with a lot of people getting hurt.

- Football is full of very large, mean people. Suh isn't any bigger or stronger than Melton or Paea - and some other teams are going to have even bigger or scarier players as well (Peppers/Urlacher). The point is, the Lions are not going to strike fear into other teams (at least good ones) - the other teams are going to hit them back. And they are going to hit people you really don't want them hitting hard (Megatron, Stafford). In case you didn't get it - that is the message the Bears sent yesterday.

- The game is already far different now than when the Titans had Haynesworth & the fearsome rep. If you haven't noticed, the league wants to clean it up, and has a very significant focus on protecting QBs, WRs, etc from head shots and other dangerous hits. So... to START building a team with that mentality at this time ... seems nothing short of stupid. I'm starting to think Schwartz is kind of stupid.


November 14th, 2011, 4:57 pm
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Post Re: "Dirty" play
I guess I'm a little confused about all the talk of dirty play???

It's totally over blown by the media and the opposing fans are jumping on the band wagon.

I really only saw 5 plays that were questionable:

The Peppers arm bar on CJ - although I don't think it was intentional

The Suh push on Cutler that knocked him to the ground, a second after the whistle was blown - probably could have pulled up on that one, it wasn't a vicious push and didn't draw a flag and the ref was standing right there

The Suh/Cutler helmet issue - purely unintentional kinda like the Peppers arm bar IMO. Cutler tried to go down to the ground while in the grasp of Suh. I do beleive that Suh was trying to slam Cutler and Cutler was trying to get on the ground as quick as possible, causing the helmet to come flying off. Still didn't see anything dirty about the play and again it wasn't penalized.

The Fairley Body slam - that was definitely an intentional slam and he was penalized for it. Does that make him dirty??? Very poor judgement, I haven't seen enough from Fairley to say he's dirty, but it cost us 15 yards.

The DJ Moore/Matt Stafford tussle - Yeah the QB dragged you down by your helmet, get up and make fun of him for throwing another pick, don't run up and launch yourself at him. This was really the dirtiest play of the game IMO, with the Fairley play following a close second.

Anyone have anything else to add???

I just don't get the Dirty Player talk it's really B.S. and the media is hyping it up.

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November 14th, 2011, 9:03 pm
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Post Re: "Dirty" play
fairly crushing cutler made me happy yesterday. :twisted: slow motion replays w grass in the helmet made it better..
suh blew up the o-line a few times too and that was awesome. bring the heat!!!!!!!!! =D>

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November 14th, 2011, 10:43 pm
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