HARD HITTING DETROIT LIONS FORUM
http://www.lionbacker.com/forum/

Killer's Korner
http://www.lionbacker.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14958
Page 27 of 47

Author:  rao [ April 16th, 2013, 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

thelomasbrowns wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Personally wondering what the heck is going on with Willie Young's deal. Why would we give him a 1 year deal after the RFA tender? I could see a multi-year deal. If he wouldn't sign the RFA deal and we gave him any sort of raise, that's ridiculous.


Confirmed today we signed him for less. Sorry not to give you more ammo.


I really don't know why anyone would think they would have paid more. It seemed like common sense that they had pulled the RFA tender and offered less because of the market. It wasn't a huge savings, but at such a small contract they managed to save a fourth of the tender price.

Author:  inheritedlionsfan [ April 17th, 2013, 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

$1.5M deal with $300,000 signing bonus. So basically they save half a mil and he pockets 300K up front instead of nothing.

Author:  wjb21ndtown [ April 17th, 2013, 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

rao wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Personally wondering what the heck is going on with Willie Young's deal. Why would we give him a 1 year deal after the RFA tender? I could see a multi-year deal. If he wouldn't sign the RFA deal and we gave him any sort of raise, that's ridiculous.


Confirmed today we signed him for less. Sorry not to give you more ammo.


I really don't know why anyone would think they would have paid more. It seemed like common sense that they had pulled the RFA tender and offered less because of the market. It wasn't a huge savings, but at such a small contract they managed to save a fourth of the tender price.


I don't know the minutia of RFA, I don't know if Willie signed his RFA tender, I don't know if an RFA tender can be pulled after it is signed (I do know that it can be pulled before it is signed).

You guys don't understand, I don't want to have "more ammo," I want this team ran properly. IMO this is no different than offering Avril a $30M deal, and him not signing it. It's more by luck and stupidity of the player, than good management.

Author:  DJ-B [ April 17th, 2013, 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.

Author:  thelomasbrowns [ April 17th, 2013, 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

DJ-B wrote:
MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.


Exactly. The high tender was due to the fact that the alternative (7th round) would have meant another team could pick him up for loose change. It's the constant assumption that we are stupid, wrong, or both that bugs me. See: Dom contract, Nate contract, the list goes on and on...

Author:  wjb21ndtown [ April 17th, 2013, 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

thelomasbrowns wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.


Exactly. The high tender was due to the fact that the alternative (7th round) would have meant another team could pick him up for loose change. It's the constant assumption that we are stupid, wrong, or both that bugs me. See: Dom contract, Nate contract, the list goes on and on...


$1.2 M per year isn't "lose change." IMO we still over-paid for the guy. Like I said, he's 27, he doesn't fit our system and Gholston, even at a 4th round pick, would cost about 1/2 (or possibly a little less) than what Willie is currently making.

Author:  BillySims [ April 17th, 2013, 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.


Exactly. The high tender was due to the fact that the alternative (7th round) would have meant another team could pick him up for loose change. It's the constant assumption that we are stupid, wrong, or both that bugs me. See: Dom contract, Nate contract, the list goes on and on...


$1.2 M per year isn't "lose change." IMO we still over-paid for the guy. Like I said, he's 27, he doesn't fit our system and Gholston, even at a 4th round pick, would cost about 1/2 (or possibly a little less) than what Willie is currently making.



So, let's justy let him get out the door also. Who needs a DE anyway! You just won't be happy until we give every player on this team away will you wjb?

Author:  wjb21ndtown [ April 17th, 2013, 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

BillySims wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.


Exactly. The high tender was due to the fact that the alternative (7th round) would have meant another team could pick him up for loose change. It's the constant assumption that we are stupid, wrong, or both that bugs me. See: Dom contract, Nate contract, the list goes on and on...


$1.2 M per year isn't "lose change." IMO we still over-paid for the guy. Like I said, he's 27, he doesn't fit our system and Gholston, even at a 4th round pick, would cost about 1/2 (or possibly a little less) than what Willie is currently making.



So, let's justy let him get out the door also. Who needs a DE anyway! You just won't be happy until we give every player on this team away will you wjb?


Stupid, just stupid...

Author:  LionsAllDay [ April 17th, 2013, 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.


Exactly. The high tender was due to the fact that the alternative (7th round) would have meant another team could pick him up for loose change. It's the constant assumption that we are stupid, wrong, or both that bugs me. See: Dom contract, Nate contract, the list goes on and on...


$1.2 M per year isn't "lose change." IMO we still over-paid for the guy. Like I said, he's 27, he doesn't fit our system and Gholston, even at a 4th round pick, would cost about 1/2 (or possibly a little less) than what Willie is currently making.


So let me know if I'm getting this right. Here is what you believe;

1. The coaches don't see anything in this guy, yet care to pay him 1.2M
2. He doesn't deserve one 1.2 M year to prove his worth
3. We don't need DE depth, even if its a 3 year player with some upside

All are reasons that I think you don't want him because of. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, if we let him go we'd be sitting with Ronnell and Jones as our only DEs, and Jones is planned to play DT in nickel packages. THAT would be disgusting.

Author:  wjb21ndtown [ April 17th, 2013, 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.


Exactly. The high tender was due to the fact that the alternative (7th round) would have meant another team could pick him up for loose change. It's the constant assumption that we are stupid, wrong, or both that bugs me. See: Dom contract, Nate contract, the list goes on and on...


$1.2 M per year isn't "lose change." IMO we still over-paid for the guy. Like I said, he's 27, he doesn't fit our system and Gholston, even at a 4th round pick, would cost about 1/2 (or possibly a little less) than what Willie is currently making.


So let me know if I'm getting this right. Here is what you believe;

1. The coaches don't see anything in this guy, yet care to pay him 1.2M
2. He doesn't deserve one 1.2 M year to prove his worth
3. We don't need DE depth, even if its a 3 year player with some upside

All are reasons that I think you don't want him because of. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, if we let him go we'd be sitting with Ronnell and Jones as our only DEs, and Jones is planned to play DT in nickel packages. THAT would be disgusting.



I've already said that we "need" LoJack back before I'd cut him. IMO he should have been given the lowest tender of $1.2M and let go. I would have taken the extra 7th round pick.

1) The coaches don't "pay" him, the team does.
2) The guy is 27 years old, I don't see him getting much better, if at all.
3) Sure we need depth, but guess what else we need... STARTERS!!!

That's the point. It's stupid to pay him $1.5 as "DE depth" when we're lacking starters at other positions. Bennet's salary is just sick, and he's a proven player. I would rather put that money toward signing someone like Freeny or Abraham than keep him as "depth" for $1.5, when we can have a rookie do the SAME DAMN JOB for 1/2 the price. Willie has a modicum amount of "potential" and possibly a slightly higher "ceiling," but guess who else you can say the same about? Gholston, for 1/2 the price, for 3 years.

I'd like to see what we can get for Shaun Hill as well. This team isn't going anywhere without its horses. I'd rather clean house, get some solid depth and young talent, and try to rebuild this thing right, rather than patch it together for the next three years, until CJ is approaching the twilight of his career.

Author:  thelomasbrowns [ April 17th, 2013, 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.


Exactly. The high tender was due to the fact that the alternative (7th round) would have meant another team could pick him up for loose change. It's the constant assumption that we are stupid, wrong, or both that bugs me. See: Dom contract, Nate contract, the list goes on and on...


$1.2 M per year isn't "lose change." IMO we still over-paid for the guy. Like I said, he's 27, he doesn't fit our system and Gholston, even at a 4th round pick, would cost about 1/2 (or possibly a little less) than what Willie is currently making.


When I said 'loose change,' I was referring to the 7th rd. pick the team would have to give up.

Author:  wjb21ndtown [ April 17th, 2013, 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

thelomasbrowns wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.


Exactly. The high tender was due to the fact that the alternative (7th round) would have meant another team could pick him up for loose change. It's the constant assumption that we are stupid, wrong, or both that bugs me. See: Dom contract, Nate contract, the list goes on and on...


$1.2 M per year isn't "lose change." IMO we still over-paid for the guy. Like I said, he's 27, he doesn't fit our system and Gholston, even at a 4th round pick, would cost about 1/2 (or possibly a little less) than what Willie is currently making.


When I said 'loose change,' I was referring to the 7th rd. pick the team would have to give up.


But that's not all the team would have to give up, which is my point. If they picked him up on his RFA tender, they have to pay him the RFA tender. They would owe him is RFA money, which is why 1) I don't think many teams would want him, and 2) I'd be more than happy to take the 7th for him.

Author:  rao [ April 17th, 2013, 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

wjb21ndtown wrote:
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.


Exactly. The high tender was due to the fact that the alternative (7th round) would have meant another team could pick him up for loose change. It's the constant assumption that we are stupid, wrong, or both that bugs me. See: Dom contract, Nate contract, the list goes on and on...


$1.2 M per year isn't "lose change." IMO we still over-paid for the guy. Like I said, he's 27, he doesn't fit our system and Gholston, even at a 4th round pick, would cost about 1/2 (or possibly a little less) than what Willie is currently making.


So let me know if I'm getting this right. Here is what you believe;

1. The coaches don't see anything in this guy, yet care to pay him 1.2M
2. He doesn't deserve one 1.2 M year to prove his worth
3. We don't need DE depth, even if its a 3 year player with some upside

All are reasons that I think you don't want him because of. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, if we let him go we'd be sitting with Ronnell and Jones as our only DEs, and Jones is planned to play DT in nickel packages. THAT would be disgusting.



I've already said that we "need" LoJack back before I'd cut him. IMO he should have been given the lowest tender of $1.2M and let go. I would have taken the extra 7th round pick.

1) The coaches don't "pay" him, the team does.
2) The guy is 27 years old, I don't see him getting much better, if at all.
3) Sure we need depth, but guess what else we need... STARTERS!!!

That's the point. It's stupid to pay him $1.5 as "DE depth" when we're lacking starters at other positions. Bennet's salary is just sick, and he's a proven player. I would rather put that money toward signing someone like Freeny or Abraham than keep him as "depth" for $1.5, when we can have a rookie do the SAME DAMN JOB for 1/2 the price. Willie has a modicum amount of "potential" and possibly a slightly higher "ceiling," but guess who else you can say the same about? Gholston, for 1/2 the price, for 3 years.

I'd like to see what we can get for Shaun Hill as well. This team isn't going anywhere without its horses. I'd rather clean house, get some solid depth and young talent, and try to rebuild this thing right, rather than patch it together for the next three years, until CJ is approaching the twilight of his career.


Bennett is not a proven player. He had one good season as a pass rusher on a team with one of the worst sack rates in the NFL. There wasn't a single proven young pass rusher available in free agency this year. Cliff Avril was actually the only young player to even put up more than 1 season of 8+ sacks. This was not a good year for young pass rushers in free agency.

Author:  wjb21ndtown [ April 17th, 2013, 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
MY though was this, Hes RFA. THey have to tender him or let him go UFA right. Maybe they were in talks, but hadn't decided on his value yet, so his agent and the Lions agree that they tender him High to prevent another team from poaching him for a 7th while they negotiated. For all we know this was going along the entire time, and he didn't sign the RFA because they were still mid-negotiation. Not saying that's what happened, but it would fit the timeline and explain the weird behavior. I cant imagine he was offered the legit RFA at 2 Million and declined to sign it thinking he would get more having proven nothing yet. If he did, he/his agent are idiots, not even taking into account the lower market value of DEs this year.


Exactly. The high tender was due to the fact that the alternative (7th round) would have meant another team could pick him up for loose change. It's the constant assumption that we are stupid, wrong, or both that bugs me. See: Dom contract, Nate contract, the list goes on and on...


$1.2 M per year isn't "lose change." IMO we still over-paid for the guy. Like I said, he's 27, he doesn't fit our system and Gholston, even at a 4th round pick, would cost about 1/2 (or possibly a little less) than what Willie is currently making.


So let me know if I'm getting this right. Here is what you believe;

1. The coaches don't see anything in this guy, yet care to pay him 1.2M
2. He doesn't deserve one 1.2 M year to prove his worth
3. We don't need DE depth, even if its a 3 year player with some upside

All are reasons that I think you don't want him because of. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, if we let him go we'd be sitting with Ronnell and Jones as our only DEs, and Jones is planned to play DT in nickel packages. THAT would be disgusting.



I've already said that we "need" LoJack back before I'd cut him. IMO he should have been given the lowest tender of $1.2M and let go. I would have taken the extra 7th round pick.

1) The coaches don't "pay" him, the team does.
2) The guy is 27 years old, I don't see him getting much better, if at all.
3) Sure we need depth, but guess what else we need... STARTERS!!!

That's the point. It's stupid to pay him $1.5 as "DE depth" when we're lacking starters at other positions. Bennet's salary is just sick, and he's a proven player. I would rather put that money toward signing someone like Freeny or Abraham than keep him as "depth" for $1.5, when we can have a rookie do the SAME DAMN JOB for 1/2 the price. Willie has a modicum amount of "potential" and possibly a slightly higher "ceiling," but guess who else you can say the same about? Gholston, for 1/2 the price, for 3 years.

I'd like to see what we can get for Shaun Hill as well. This team isn't going anywhere without its horses. I'd rather clean house, get some solid depth and young talent, and try to rebuild this thing right, rather than patch it together for the next three years, until CJ is approaching the twilight of his career.


Bennett is not a proven player. He had one good season as a pass rusher on a team with one of the worst sack rates in the NFL. There wasn't a single proven young pass rusher available in free agency this year. Cliff Avril was actually the only young player to even put up more than 1 season of 8+ sacks. This was not a good year for young pass rushers in free agency.



Freeny and Abraham aren't proven?

By proven, I mean at least he's proven that he CAN start. Young hasn't even proven that he's quality depth.

Author:  rao [ April 17th, 2013, 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer's Korner

wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Bennett is not a proven player. He had one good season as a pass rusher on a team with one of the worst sack rates in the NFL. There wasn't a single proven young pass rusher available in free agency this year. Cliff Avril was actually the only young player to even put up more than 1 season of 8+ sacks. This was not a good year for young pass rushers in free agency.



Freeny and Abraham aren't proven?

By proven, I mean at least he's proven that he CAN start. Young hasn't even proven that he's quality depth.


I put the word young in my statement for a reason. Both Freeny and Abraham don't qualify.

Page 27 of 47 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/