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 Killer's Korner 
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
m2karateman wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Greenwood signed off the PS by Dallas. There goes that one.


Truthfully, they can have him. Injury prone, and wasn't very good when he was healthy. All he had was really good size for the position. His instincts sucked, and he often seemed overwhelmed and intimidated by playing on the big stage.

He'll be released in the upcoming weeks, I'll bet.


how do you know this? he barely played. Im not a big fan of the Lions throwing draft picks into the garbage without even a proper evaluation when they could cut just IR someone like Burleson. Truthfully, the NFLs, Injured Reserve system is the problem. Why cant someone go on IR and be out for lets say a 6 week minimum and then be available to return. the choice bw trying to hide someone on the inactive list for 6 weeks vs eliminating them from the entirety of the season seems kinda ridiculous.


September 25th, 2013, 5:15 pm
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
The Legend wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Greenwood signed off the PS by Dallas. There goes that one.


Truthfully, they can have him. Injury prone, and wasn't very good when he was healthy. All he had was really good size for the position. His instincts sucked, and he often seemed overwhelmed and intimidated by playing on the big stage.

He'll be released in the upcoming weeks, I'll bet.


how do you know this? he barely played. Im not a big fan of the Lions throwing draft picks into the garbage without even a proper evaluation when they could cut just IR someone like Burleson. Truthfully, the NFLs, Injured Reserve system is the problem. Why cant someone go on IR and be out for lets say a 6 week minimum and then be available to return. the choice bw trying to hide someone on the inactive list for 6 weeks vs eliminating them from the entirety of the season seems kinda ridiculous.


First...they now have the DTR (Designated To Return) policy in place, which the Lions unfortunately used on Montell Owens, which I thought at the time was a HUGE mistake. The DTR-IR should NOT be used on a special teams player. That was just dumb.

As for how I know, I don't. It's my guess. If you watched ANY of the pre-season games where Greenwood played, he looked flat out terrible. His coverage was sketchy at best, and that was against third and fourth string players. He didn't tackle well, and at times looked confused when he was on the field. At least twice I saw one of our other guys on defense telling him where he needed to be. That's not a good sign, particularly for a guy who spent an entire year off from playing and thus giving him an opportunity to STUDY the playbook and get to know the defense in that way. I know many fans had high hopes for him (as did I), and that his physical makeup is perfect for what we want at CB. But quite frankly, I just don't see why people get upset about this. Does anyone believe he had even the slightest chance of making this roster this year? I don't. And quite frankly I don't think he'll stick to the Dallas roster either.

Back to the NFL IR....I believe the reason the system is set up that way is to prevent teams from having free tryouts. You know, place underperforming players on the IR for a minor injury, find someone they like better for a cheaper price, then take said player off of IR and releasing him. It may be a Players Union thing. I can't say for sure. I believe that what the league SHOULD do is allow a team to do the DTR-IR move a maximum of five times, with the backfill on the roster coming strictly off of the teams practice squad. Once the player on IR returns, the team can then move the PS player back to the practice squad without having to place him on waivers. I'm sure there's probably a better way to handle it than what they have, but with the Union having to agree to it, I don't see it changing all that much any time soon.

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September 25th, 2013, 6:38 pm
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
i agree greenwood looked terrible. he also only practiced with the team for a total of about 2 weeks since being a 5th rd pick and had a tough transition from D3 to the NFL so i dont know how much value i would put in that preseason performance other than to say it showed he will be tough to keep on an active roster for an entire season bc a competitive team would not put him on the field for meaningful playing time. as far as projecting long term value or development, the preseason performance given the circumstances means little to nothing. also, i would say that greenwood's best shot at developing was probably with the team that drafted him. if dallas cant keep him on the 53 man roster all season which i would say is unlikely, greenwood gets cut bounces around for a little while and then is done in the NFL with little chance at having much of an NFL career


September 25th, 2013, 10:33 pm
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
Anyone with any comments or insight about the Lions recent moves on the DL? Israel Idonije played horribly vs Washington and Jason Jones had a season ending knee injury. In response the Lions cut Justin Bannan and signed DE/DT Andre Fluellen as well as DT D'Anthony Smith - an injury prone 25 yo former 3rd rd pick who couldnt make the Jaguars' roster was traded to Seattle for a few weeks and cut after missing his first 2 seasons on injured reserve.

Perhaps, Fluellen is brought on to be some veteran insurance mostly at DE to replace Jones. Devin Taylor beat out Fluellen for the 53 man roster but perhaps the team realizes Taylor's value is developmental while Fluellen is more likely to be reliably in game situations given experience advantage particularly in the Lions system. The surprise is the release of Bannan who looked like a fundamentally sound veteran 4th DT that plays the position as smart as you would expect a veteran to play but doesnt make big plays. Maybe, conditioning was an issue as Bannan has only played in short stretches. Still, Bannan did beat out Fluellen in camp so its strange that he would be cut about the same time as Fluellen being added on. I dont know a whole lot about Smith but it seems he did play a fair amount for Seattle, not sure what changed that they ended up cutting him. Is he a developmental player or someone that can get into the rotation right away? If Taylor and Smith play into the rotation, does Fluellen get cut for the 10 millionth time? What made the Lions keep Fluellen over Bannan now, when they chose Bannan 3 weeks ago?


September 25th, 2013, 10:50 pm
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
The Legend wrote:
Anyone with any comments or insight about the Lions recent moves on the DL? Israel Idonije played horribly vs Washington and Jason Jones had a season ending knee injury. In response the Lions cut Justin Bannan and signed DE/DT Andre Fluellen as well as DT D'Anthony Smith - an injury prone 25 yo former 3rd rd pick who couldnt make the Jaguars' roster was traded to Seattle for a few weeks and cut after missing his first 2 seasons on injured reserve.

Perhaps, Fluellen is brought on to be some veteran insurance mostly at DE to replace Jones. Devin Taylor beat out Fluellen for the 53 man roster but perhaps the team realizes Taylor's value is developmental while Fluellen is more likely to be reliably in game situations given experience advantage particularly in the Lions system. The surprise is the release of Bannan who looked like a fundamentally sound veteran 4th DT that plays the position as smart as you would expect a veteran to play but doesnt make big plays. Maybe, conditioning was an issue as Bannan has only played in short stretches. Still, Bannan did beat out Fluellen in camp so its strange that he would be cut about the same time as Fluellen being added on. I dont know a whole lot about Smith but it seems he did play a fair amount for Seattle, not sure what changed that they ended up cutting him. Is he a developmental player or someone that can get into the rotation right away? If Taylor and Smith play into the rotation, does Fluellen get cut for the 10 millionth time? What made the Lions keep Fluellen over Bannan now, when they chose Bannan 3 weeks ago?


You have the stuff about Smith all out of order. He was on IR for his first two seasons with the Jags then played 8 games for them last year before again being put on IR. He was always on the Jags roster, so saying he couldn't make their roster isn't really correct. He had 5 tackles in the 2 games he has played so far this season for the Seahawks and was cut because it voids the 7th rounder they gave up for him.

It's Smith that was picked up to replace Bannan and Fluellen is just back because he plays both DE and DT to make up for the loss of Jones. I wouldn't be surprised if they just decided to go back to the same system they have done in the past with 4 DEs and 5 DTs. Idonije, Young, and Ansah doesn't seem any worse than last years KVB, Avril, and Young.


September 25th, 2013, 11:46 pm
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
Quote:
You have the stuff about Smith all out of order. He was on IR for his first two seasons with the Jags then played 8 games for them last year before again being put on IR. He was always on the Jags roster, so saying he couldn't make their roster isn't really correct. He had 5 tackles in the 2 games he has played so far this season for the Seahawks and was cut because it voids the 7th rounder they gave up for him.


out of order? oohhhhkkkaayyy if that makes you feel better, whatever. smith was announced as being a cut by jax writers but traded to seattle before the official cuts were finalized. he didnt make the jags roster. looks like seattle got a free rental for a few weeks and thats it.


September 26th, 2013, 2:49 am
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
Looks like Fluellen in for Jones to me as a DE (ie not in for Bannan - so not a reversing of that decision). Fluellen on the roster then allows you to take a risk at DT on a development player over Bannan as if a DT goes down, on game day Fluellen can fill the spot if your developmental player isn't ready yet.

I worry about where we're at at DE, though. Ansah's made bigger strides towards being an NFL DE than I expected (which is great - he had one run stop against WAS (where he shifted sideways to the edge of the field with a tackle on him all the way, but matched the RB's pace and got off the block for a tackle) that I thought was great for someone who was just expected to be a raw pass rusher at this stage). Willie Young is holding up better vs the run than I expected. But Idonije looked poor vs WAS (Morris' TD run in particular) and Devin Taylor is a very unproven commodity.

Given how much we normally like to rotate the D-Line and that all 4 D-Ends have question marks to varying degrees, I think the loss of Jones could be bigger than Burleson.

I think it says a lot about Ronnell Lewis that he hasn't even had a look in.

Are there any DEs out there in FA or potential trades we could look at?

Also, why has Matt Willis seemingly not been considered?


September 26th, 2013, 6:11 am
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
UK Lion wrote:
Looks like Fluellen in for Jones to me as a DE (ie not in for Bannan - so not a reversing of that decision). Fluellen on the roster then allows you to take a risk at DT on a development player over Bannan as if a DT goes down, on game day Fluellen can fill the spot if your developmental player isn't ready yet.

I worry about where we're at at DE, though. Ansah's made bigger strides towards being an NFL DE than I expected (which is great - he had one run stop against WAS (where he shifted sideways to the edge of the field with a tackle on him all the way, but matched the RB's pace and got off the block for a tackle) that I thought was great for someone who was just expected to be a raw pass rusher at this stage). Willie Young is holding up better vs the run than I expected. But Idonije looked poor vs WAS (Morris' TD run in particular) and Devin Taylor is a very unproven commodity.

Given how much we normally like to rotate the D-Line and that all 4 D-Ends have question marks to varying degrees, I think the loss of Jones could be bigger than Burleson.

I think it says a lot about Ronnell Lewis that he hasn't even had a look in.
Are there any DEs out there in FA or potential trades we could look at?

Also, why has Matt Willis seemingly not been considered?


Careful what you say here, UK Lion. Some on this forum will talk your ear off about how Ronnell Lewis should have been kept and Willie Young should have been cut, because Lewis supposedly displayed better skill during pre-season than Young did.

Never mind the fact that Lewis was drafted to be a special teams player, and couldn't even hack doing that. Never mind that he's three inches shorter, with shorter arms, and is slower than Young. And never mind the fact that no other team, that I know of, has even sniffed at the idea of adding Lewis to their roster since he was released by the Lions.

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September 26th, 2013, 10:10 am
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
Flu was brought back because he can play both DE and DT, so he helps with the rotation. Taylor is going to see more time as well, which should minimize the amount of time him or Flu are in at DE. Young and Ansah, even with limited time because Jones was the starter the first two games, are 6th in the league in 4-3 DE QB disruptions. The DL has been doing very well against the run, except for the big chunk runs which have come because of losing the outside seal, or poor tackling.

I think the reason Willis isn't being considered is because even before Nate broke his arm, they've needed an outside receiver, not another slot. Broyles has been held back to take it slow on his knee (his 9 month recovery time is just as impressive as AP's) but he's ready to step into Nate's role. They need a receiver for the outside, which is why as much as I dislike Durham, we're limited to CJ, Durham and Edwards outside. Fuller is worse than Durham at this point, so Willis would only be depth in the slot, which we don't need. The TE's and RB's slide into the slot, so there's a logjam there. I think it's going to come down to the trade deadline, or we'll be waiting for the draft.


September 26th, 2013, 10:48 am
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
m2karateman wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
Looks like Fluellen in for Jones to me as a DE (ie not in for Bannan - so not a reversing of that decision). Fluellen on the roster then allows you to take a risk at DT on a development player over Bannan as if a DT goes down, on game day Fluellen can fill the spot if your developmental player isn't ready yet.

I worry about where we're at at DE, though. Ansah's made bigger strides towards being an NFL DE than I expected (which is great - he had one run stop against WAS (where he shifted sideways to the edge of the field with a tackle on him all the way, but matched the RB's pace and got off the block for a tackle) that I thought was great for someone who was just expected to be a raw pass rusher at this stage). Willie Young is holding up better vs the run than I expected. But Idonije looked poor vs WAS (Morris' TD run in particular) and Devin Taylor is a very unproven commodity.

Given how much we normally like to rotate the D-Line and that all 4 D-Ends have question marks to varying degrees, I think the loss of Jones could be bigger than Burleson.

I think it says a lot about Ronnell Lewis that he hasn't even had a look in.
Are there any DEs out there in FA or potential trades we could look at?

Also, why has Matt Willis seemingly not been considered?


Careful what you say here, UK Lion. Some on this forum will talk your ear off about how Ronnell Lewis should have been kept and Willie Young should have been cut, because Lewis supposedly displayed better skill during pre-season than Young did.

Never mind the fact that Lewis was drafted to be a special teams player, and couldn't even hack doing that. Never mind that he's three inches shorter, with shorter arms, and is slower than Young. And never mind the fact that no other team, that I know of, has even sniffed at the idea of adding Lewis to their roster since he was released by the Lions.


Young is not faster than Ronnell Lewis. Lewis is a very athletically gifted player, just not good at the technique or mental part. Lewis may have looked slower just because his reaction time was damn near at a stand still sometimes.

I'll admit I was wrong about Young coming into this season. He's actually been playing much better than I thought he would and he's managed to bring some of his preseason game into the real season finally. I'm glad the staff made the decision they did and that I was wrong about keeping Lewis over Young.


September 26th, 2013, 10:50 am
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
njroar wrote:
I think the reason Willis isn't being considered is because even before Nate broke his arm, they've needed an outside receiver, not another slot.

Fair point, hadn't thought of that (tbh, wasn't sure whether Willis was a slot or outside guy). Cheers.

rao wrote:
I'll admit I was wrong about Young coming into this season.

I wanted Young over Lewis but have to say I was wrong about Young, too: he's playing better than I expected as well. Maybe he reads the board and my "shiniest turd" comment spurred him into action :wink:


September 26th, 2013, 2:32 pm
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
rao wrote:
Young is not faster than Ronnell Lewis. Lewis is a very athletically gifted player, just not good at the technique or mental part. Lewis may have looked slower just because his reaction time was damn near at a stand still sometimes.

I'll admit I was wrong about Young coming into this season. He's actually been playing much better than I thought he would and he's managed to bring some of his preseason game into the real season finally. I'm glad the staff made the decision they did and that I was wrong about keeping Lewis over Young.


That is what I meant by slower than Young. Footspeed over 40 yards is meaningless for a DE, as it is with just about any other position in football outside of WR. With the DE, it is about reaction time and how quick he gets up to speed in his first two or three steps. Lewis played like he was stuck in cement at the snap of the ball, and he was hesitant in his rush.

I am not, and never have said, that Young is a complete defensive end. He is a pure rusher, and unfortunately his pass rush arsenal is limited, mostly due to a long frame. However, he gets the pocket pressure we need, and has the long arms to either knock down passes or force QBs to adjust in the pocket to get the open passing lane. Lewis rarely got his arms up when it was obvious the QB was back to pass and throwing his way.

I think the Lions will have to keep scouring the free agent/practice squad market for someone that can come in as a more all around end. Andre Fluellen is a good fill in for now, but he's more DT than DE all day long. Young has been forced into a starting role, but even I know that's not his true role on this team. I almost wish the Lions would look into getting Lawrence Jackson back. He wasn't a strong pass rusher, but he was the best DE the Lions had against the run.

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September 26th, 2013, 2:44 pm
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
m2karateman wrote:
rao wrote:
Young is not faster than Ronnell Lewis. Lewis is a very athletically gifted player, just not good at the technique or mental part. Lewis may have looked slower just because his reaction time was damn near at a stand still sometimes.

I'll admit I was wrong about Young coming into this season. He's actually been playing much better than I thought he would and he's managed to bring some of his preseason game into the real season finally. I'm glad the staff made the decision they did and that I was wrong about keeping Lewis over Young.


That is what I meant by slower than Young. Footspeed over 40 yards is meaningless for a DE, as it is with just about any other position in football outside of WR. With the DE, it is about reaction time and how quick he gets up to speed in his first two or three steps. Lewis played like he was stuck in cement at the snap of the ball, and he was hesitant in his rush.

I am not, and never have said, that Young is a complete defensive end. He is a pure rusher, and unfortunately his pass rush arsenal is limited, mostly due to a long frame. However, he gets the pocket pressure we need, and has the long arms to either knock down passes or force QBs to adjust in the pocket to get the open passing lane. Lewis rarely got his arms up when it was obvious the QB was back to pass and throwing his way.

I think the Lions will have to keep scouring the free agent/practice squad market for someone that can come in as a more all around end. Andre Fluellen is a good fill in for now, but he's more DT than DE all day long. Young has been forced into a starting role, but even I know that's not his true role on this team. I almost wish the Lions would look into getting Lawrence Jackson back. He wasn't a strong pass rusher, but he was the best DE the Lions had against the run.


He had harsh words for the Wide-9 on his way out. I think he burned his bridges with the Lions.

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September 26th, 2013, 2:52 pm
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
Too bad cuz isnt he job hunting right now?


September 26th, 2013, 5:56 pm
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Post Re: Killer's Korner
m2karateman wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
Looks like Fluellen in for Jones to me as a DE (ie not in for Bannan - so not a reversing of that decision). Fluellen on the roster then allows you to take a risk at DT on a development player over Bannan as if a DT goes down, on game day Fluellen can fill the spot if your developmental player isn't ready yet.

I worry about where we're at at DE, though. Ansah's made bigger strides towards being an NFL DE than I expected (which is great - he had one run stop against WAS (where he shifted sideways to the edge of the field with a tackle on him all the way, but matched the RB's pace and got off the block for a tackle) that I thought was great for someone who was just expected to be a raw pass rusher at this stage). Willie Young is holding up better vs the run than I expected. But Idonije looked poor vs WAS (Morris' TD run in particular) and Devin Taylor is a very unproven commodity.

Given how much we normally like to rotate the D-Line and that all 4 D-Ends have question marks to varying degrees, I think the loss of Jones could be bigger than Burleson.

I think it says a lot about Ronnell Lewis that he hasn't even had a look in.
Are there any DEs out there in FA or potential trades we could look at?

Also, why has Matt Willis seemingly not been considered?




Careful what you say here, UK Lion. Some on this forum will talk your ear off about how Ronnell Lewis should have been kept and Willie Young should have been cut, because Lewis supposedly displayed better skill during pre-season than Young did.

Never mind the fact that Lewis was drafted to be a special teams player, and couldn't even hack doing that. Never mind that he's three inches shorter, with shorter arms, and is slower than Young. And never mind the fact that no other team, that I know of, has even sniffed at the idea of adding Lewis to their roster since he was released by the Lions.


Lewis' problems are beyond what can be seen on a football field. Besides the offseason arrest, he was allegedly out of shape and then he got a DUI almost immediately after being cut. no team will take a chance on him if he cant handle himself. willie young has looked good but idiotic mistakes and a basic lack of instinct and fundamentals make me wonder how long it will last, his role is only going to get bigger and bigger now with jones injured so its a great opportunity for young to prove himself. the lions clearly picked the right player but given lewis' self destructing behavior it was really a no contest and the coaches knew a lot more about lewis behind the scenes than was revealed through the media.


September 26th, 2013, 6:50 pm
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