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 detroit's receivers 
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bigguy131 wrote:
I don't see where everone thinks Vines is so great. If you match him with Kircus, Kircus out played him last year. They both only had 3 receptions, Vines average per catch 17.0 yds. Kircus had 22.7 yds. and a TD. Vines or Kircus did not have any tackles on special teams. I am pretty sure Kircus has better speed and IMO has more upside. I think Vines is good to but to rate him better I just don't see it.


The only reason Kircus had a larger per catch average than Vines is because of his forty some yard TD catch against Dallas. Vines caught the ball better. You are forgetting the drops Kircus has had, as well as the times it was obvious he ran the wrong route. Vines may not have the speed David does, but he is more sure handed and more involved during Special Teams play.

I would have loved to have seen Kircus develop into a playmaker, but it simply hasn't, nor will it, happen.

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May 12th, 2005, 12:41 pm
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Not trying to be Kircus homer, but you think 2 more tackles made 2 years ago is worth more than a TD catch made last year in traffic ? Vines dropped passes last year to, I do not think any of our receivers caught every thing thrown their way. Again not trying to start a fight I just do not see Vines being that much better. :D


May 12th, 2005, 1:13 pm
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It looks like their stats are really pretty close. Vines is one year older, but has 1 year less NFL experience.

Scotty
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7128/career

David
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6511/career

I still think Scotty would be a better fit though. His is a little heavier and has shown me more on the field. Kircus has had 3 years to prove himself and he hasn't, Scotty has only played with us last year and looks as good if not better than Kircus.

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May 12th, 2005, 1:24 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
bigguy131 wrote:
I don't see where everone thinks Vines is so great. If you match him with Kircus, Kircus out played him last year. They both only had 3 receptions, Vines average per catch 17.0 yds. Kircus had 22.7 yds. and a TD. Vines or Kircus did not have any tackles on special teams. I am pretty sure Kircus has better speed and IMO has more upside. I think Vines is good to but to rate him better I just don't see it.


The only reason Kircus had a larger per catch average than Vines is because of his forty some yard TD catch against Dallas. Vines caught the ball better. You are forgetting the drops Kircus has had, as well as the times it was obvious he ran the wrong route. Vines may not have the speed David does, but he is more sure handed and more involved during Special Teams play.

I would have loved to have seen Kircus develop into a playmaker, but it simply hasn't, nor will it, happen.


Seems like you are saying because a reciever has a couple drops he is no good then I guess the only reciever who should be on our squad is Charles simply because he hasn't had a chance to drop any yet. Let them fight it out in camp and the best one should win.

Also as to wrong routes and inconsistencies all of our recievers have that problem. He had to deal with being the 2nd reciever on occasions while we all know he was only prepared to be the 4th or 5th option. Even Az had trouble making the necessary adjustments, so lay off the kids and let them develop.

As to the coaches not playing him so he must be garbage I am assuming Holt who did not get much playing is only starting because there is no one else to play. Get out from the rocks you guys live under and realize sometimes football guys do things that make no sense so don't try to apply logic to it.


May 12th, 2005, 1:36 pm
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Pablo wrote:
I think the battle comes down between Vines and Savoy. I'd really like to see Savoy play in the preseason before I make this call. I see him making the PS if nothing else.

Regardless, the Lions now have 4 legit WRs. It's all a matter of health and productivity now.


I agree 100 percent... Kircus isnt far behind, it depends how hard he works in the offseason, but Vines and Savoy are definitely my tops

Personally I like Savoy


May 12th, 2005, 2:16 pm
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Rhys_Pieces wrote:
Seems like you are saying because a reciever has a couple drops he is no good then I guess the only reciever who should be on our squad is Charles simply because he hasn't had a chance to drop any yet. Let them fight it out in camp and the best one should win.

Also as to wrong routes and inconsistencies all of our recievers have that problem. He had to deal with being the 2nd reciever on occasions while we all know he was only prepared to be the 4th or 5th option. Even Az had trouble making the necessary adjustments, so lay off the kids and let them develop.

As to the coaches not playing him so he must be garbage I am assuming Holt who did not get much playing is only starting because there is no one else to play. Get out from the rocks you guys live under and realize sometimes football guys do things that make no sense so don't try to apply logic to it.


Well having a couple drops doesn't make him a good receiver either, but having more drops than catches does make him a bad receiver. That has pretty much been the case with Kircus. As for Az, he's not here anymore for pretty much the same reasons. Same thing with Stephen Alexander and Bill Schroeder. None of them have held onto the ball when it counts......and it always counts.

When it comes down to it, Scottie Vines made more of his opportunities than Kircus did. He caught the ball when it was thrown to him. Kircus has not produced when called upon. Not all of our receivers have the problems running the right routes, as you claim. Once in while for a rookie can be expected, but not as often as it seemed with Kircus. One catch in a crowd doesn't forgive the other blunders. In the pros, you produce or you are let go. Period. Vines made some good catches with good coverage on him.

I agree that the players should fight it out in camp, and that's exactly what will happen. The whole idea behind this thread is who we thought will be the winners of that fight, not who we are dictating have to be the winners.

And Holt is starting now because there is no one else to play. Tell me who is on the roster that can start ahead of him.

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May 12th, 2005, 9:38 pm
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LOL, I can't believe we are wasting this much time talking about our fifth receivers...

Come on... that's what pre-season is for... LOL


May 12th, 2005, 10:28 pm
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Brian wrote:
LOL, I can't believe we are wasting this much time talking about our fifth receivers...

Come on... that's what pre-season is for... LOL



You're reading my mind.

It's like arguing over who's hotter - Carney Wilson or Kirsty Alley? Hey, they're both heifers!!


May 13th, 2005, 9:02 am
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Kirstie at least used to be attractive...

Image

Carney was nasty...before and after
Image

On a total off the track note...anyone notice that all these people that stapled their stomach or shortened their intestinal track that got really skinny real fast are starting to look big again???

Al Roker, nurse on ER, Star Jones, and some people I even know personally.


Nobody is saying Vines is far and away better but Kircus hasn't progressed. Seriously if they cut Foster who was far more productive than either of those guys then it's really not worth arguing.

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May 13th, 2005, 10:51 am
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theAlphaMale wrote:
Nobody is saying Vines is far and away better but Kircus hasn't progressed. Seriously if they cut Foster who was far more productive than either of those guys then it's really not worth arguing.


The Lions traded Larry Foster on Draft day to the Arizona Cardinals for a 7th round pick in 2003. They used that pick to select 'Blue' Adams.

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May 13th, 2005, 10:56 am
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ok details details...

my point is that they dropped the guy who was more productive in his 1st year than Kircus and Vines combined for their entire tenure basically than these guys aren't worth fight over. I like Vines but wouldn't bat an eye if they gave him a bus ticket outta town but there are people around that seemingly would commit Hara-kiri if Kircus left town :lol:

"uhhh...kircus was cut...and now so am I"
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May 13th, 2005, 11:11 am
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"You stated that you felt the Lions 'could have gotten better for a million bucks' in reference to Kevin Johnson. Who? Kevin Johnson may not be the player he was three years ago, but as a fourth receiver he can step in and be a factor. For someone with his credentials, I don't think a million for a one year contract is a bad deal at all."

Just wanted to say ditto to this.

If someone else better was available in FA at the WR spot that has better hands and some experience that can convert 3rd downs than let me know. I mean, come on, I looked at some of the "hot" available FA at WR and they had both Az Hakim and Tai Streets rated in their top five. (I think that might have been a Pat Kirwan piece.)

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May 13th, 2005, 11:17 am
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Isn't it good and a sign that hopefully we have turned the corner that we are debating the last reciever on the team not the starting recievers, not the CB's, not the DL or even the OL that to me is a good sign. Let's hope it translate to a wonderful season. 10-6 and at least one playoff win, (finger crossed for a superbowl appearance)


May 13th, 2005, 11:27 am
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theAlphaMale wrote:
... I like Vines but wouldn't bat an eye if they gave him a bus ticket outta town but there are people around that seemingly would commit Hara-kiri if Kircus left town :lol:

"uhhh...kircus was cut...and now so am I"
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This is so true and so funny!


May 13th, 2005, 11:30 am
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theAlphaMale wrote:
Image


One little mishap with a steak knife and everybody tags you as being suicidal...............

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May 13th, 2005, 2:04 pm
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