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 Lions start to struggle this is the reason 
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
m2karateman wrote:
thegodjr wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
so what you believe is that sacks and QB pressures is strictly a measure of the offensive line? The QB has NOTHING to do with that?

If that's the case, you know NOTHING about football.

Did I say that?

EDIT: still didn't answer the original question


thegodjr wrote:
Those numbers are indisputable. Unless you want to argue that Stafford is causing the OL to play worse (lol)


Did you not say this? And the fact is, Stafford CAN cause the OL to APPEAR to play worse. You keep throwing out those statistics, like it is evidence against strictly the offensive line. It is nothing of the kind. It is evidence against the entire offense.

How so?

Let me explain.

Remember Jon Kitna? Remember when he was the Lions QB? What was the number one criticism of Kitna? Do you remember?

He holds the ball too long.

Anybody, please, correct me if I'm wrong on this. Wasn't that the major criticism of Jon Kitna as a Lion?

Now, when a QB holds the ball too long....what does that result in? Pressure? Hits? Sacks?

What about this scenario.....a RB is supposed to stay in to pickup a blitz. The QB reads the blitz, changes the RB duties, and he's supposed to pick up that blitz. The RB either fails on the block, or fails to hear the change. The QB gets pressured, hit or sacked. Is that the fault of the offensive line?

A wide receiver runs the wrong route. The QB is looking for him, but can't see where he is, and as a result holds the ball longer than he wanted to. He's gotten a full 3.5 seconds to throw the ball, but he gets pressured, hit or sacked.
Is that the offensive lines fault as well?

The offensive coordinator, knowing that he is facing a team with a strong pass rush, still keeps calling plays that don't slow down the rush, don't keep extra blockers in, and basically plays right to the strengths of the opposing team. I suppose that is the fault of the offensive line as well.

So....all your statistics aren't a prosecution of the offensive line....it's a prosecution of the entire offense. And comparing a five game sample to a two game sample is EXTREMELY misleading.

It's funny that others on this board notice that Stafford's play has been different the past two games, but you can't see it. You want to say that the offensive line is the cause of this difference in play, and is the cause of the increase in pressures, hits and sacks. I say the offensive line is still playing the same that they have in the first five games, and that Stafford is playing differently.

thegodjr wrote:
let me ask you guys who don't believe the OL is the problem... how do you feel the line has played overall, in both run and pass blocking?


And let me repeat what I said before......IN ALL SEVEN GAMES THE OFFENSIVE LINE HASN'T DONE THAT WELL. Their level of play, in my opinion, is no worse in games six and seven than it was in games one and two.

Now if that doesn't answer your frickin' sacred question, I don't know what answer you are looking for.

Wow. I honestly believe you have failed to comprehend most of what I have written. I am not even going to take the time to correct you, I am just going to laugh :lol:

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October 27th, 2011, 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
thegodjr wrote:
Wow. I honestly believe you have failed to comprehend most of what I have written. I am not even going to take the time to correct you, I am just going to laugh :lol:

Apparently I failed to comprehend myself, as it seems as though you're blaming the Offense's faults/issues directly and only on the OLine, is that not what you're saying?

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October 27th, 2011, 4:28 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
thegodjr wrote:
Wow. I honestly believe you have failed to comprehend most of what I have written. I am not even going to take the time to correct you, I am just going to laugh :lol:


Of course. It's pretty easy to hide behind that "you just don't understand" wall, isn't it? That's where all the other folks who are losing an argument go to. Say hello to them.

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October 27th, 2011, 5:39 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
Another the place they have been struggling is at the S position. Yes Spievey has three picks but I believe two of them were bad throws where he looked like he was the open receiver. They are out of position more than they are in position and haven't been overly effective at filling the running lanes. Even when they get there they are dropping their shoulder and not wrapping up allowing the runner to just bounce off. Delmas has also looked totally outmatched in coverage against good TEs. I know Delmas is a great rah-rah guy but he needs to step up his play on the field.


October 28th, 2011, 6:33 am
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
sweetd20 wrote:
Another the place they have been struggling is at the S position. Yes Spievey has three picks but I believe two of them were bad throws where he looked like he was the open receiver. They are out of position more than they are in position and haven't been overly effective at filling the running lanes. Even when they get there they are dropping their shoulder and not wrapping up allowing the runner to just bounce off. Delmas has also looked totally outmatched in coverage against good TEs. I know Delmas is a great rah-rah guy but he needs to step up his play on the field.


I'm going to kind of agree with this. Yes, the picks came off bad throws, but Spievey was where he was supposed to be in those instances. Can't blame him for a bad throw. Where I definitely agree is on the run support. They aren't filling the lanes quick enough, and I've said since day one that Delmas is more of a hitter than tackler. Levy was doing the same thing earlier this year, and now he's finally starting to wrap the ball carrier rather than just try and knock him down.

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October 28th, 2011, 12:19 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
Quote:
Stafford has taken 8 sacks and 15 hits the past two games (keep in mind while having happy feet and trying to avoid hits) according to http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=749090 ... -two-games

I'm having a hard time finding stats for the first 5 games, but if we cross reference my previous findings with stats from here (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... ified=true) we see that the first 5 games we gave up 6 sacks and 23 QB hits

Here's what the averages are:
first 5 games: 1.2 sacks/gm and 4.6 hits/gm
last 2 games: 4 sacks/gm and 7.5 hits/gm

It should be noted that a lot of those hits in the first 5 games were due to him standing tall in the pocket to deliver an accurate ball, a play that he has elected not to make the past two weeks to avoid getting hit (which should amount to LESS hits, all things being equal)

Stafford's play has regressed due to happy feet and anxiety in the pocket. Which is a direct effect of our piss-poor OL.


the ol as a unit has been worse and seem confused schematically on who to block even when the opponents arent bringing more than 4 or 5 guys vs the pass


October 28th, 2011, 4:48 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
TheRealWags wrote:
thegodjr wrote:
Wow. I honestly believe you have failed to comprehend most of what I have written. I am not even going to take the time to correct you, I am just going to laugh :lol:

Apparently I failed to comprehend myself, as it seems as though you're blaming the Offense's faults/issues directly and only on the OLine, is that not what you're saying?

What? No, I have said plenty of times that Staffords play has been poor. I just believe he is playing poorly because of the inadequate protection he is getting. Here's what I said:
Quote:
the first 5 games, Stafford would stand tall in the pocket and take a shot, if necessary, to deliver an accurate ball. The clock in his head was ticking right on time. The past two, he has been throwing off his back foot a lot, and his mechanics have been way off. Also, the clock in his head is moving much faster than before, which was proven in the ATL game when he was actually given great protection for a play, but still rushed the throw (the commentators noted this as well). This is due to the fact he 1) does not want to continue to take the beating he has been and 2) he doesn't trust his OL. Both of those reasons are due to poor OL play. Also, I don't see how he holds the ball for too long... he tries to get the ball out quick - too quick - and that is why he is playing poorly. Watch the tapes for Heaven's sake. It's all so obvious. You're looking into it too much and as a result are getting cute with your assessment.

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October 29th, 2011, 6:23 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
m2karateman wrote:
thegodjr wrote:
Wow. I honestly believe you have failed to comprehend most of what I have written. I am not even going to take the time to correct you, I am just going to laugh :lol:


Of course. It's pretty easy to hide behind that "you just don't understand" wall, isn't it? That's where all the other folks who are losing an argument go to. Say hello to them.

I'm "losing" an argument based off opinion? Ohhhhhkay :roll:

(maybe if I tell him he's right, he'll go away)

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2011 AAL: Jahvid Best
Rushing: 390 Yards : 4.6 YPC : 2 TD : 65 YPG
Receiving: 287 Yards : 10.6 YPR : 1 TD : 47.8 YPG
0 Fumbles, 0 Fumbles lost
2 concussions


October 29th, 2011, 6:31 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
While I'm still not a fan of the OL, I thought they played fairly well yesterday. Best of all, they managed to cut down on the ridiculous holding and false start penalties. Here's more:
Mlive wrote:
Detroit Lions notes: Offensive line protects Matthew Stafford, opens up running lanes
Published: Sunday, October 30, 2011, 10:15 PM Updated: Sunday, October 30, 2011, 10:41 PM
By Philip Zaroo | MLive.com MLive.com

DENVER -- It had been a rough couple of weeks for the Detroit Lions, having to deal with their first two losses of the season, but the offensive line, in particular, was under a microscope.

Against Atlanta and San Francisco, the Lions gave up a total of eight sacks and quarterback Matthew Stafford was frequently on the run, rarely able to settle in and throw the ball without having to worry about pressure.

But the guys up front got back on track in Sunday's 45-10 thrashing of Denver.

Despite allowing a couple of sacks to the Broncos, the Lions were able to control the game from the beginning, running the ball efficiently and giving Stafford the time -- sometimes a lot of time -- to find his targets.

On the first of his three touchdown passes in the game, Stafford had plenty of time to find receiver Titus Young wide open in the end zone to put the Lions on top, 7-3.

The blocking was especially important because Stafford injured his right ankle last week against the Falcons. He said it gradually felt better each day, but it still wasn't 100 percent.

"The guys knew I wasn't going to be crazy mobile back there," Stafford said. "We had to use the run game, and an effective run game, at that. We ran the ball. We got yards. I know they stopped us there late in the game, but we did a good job of mixing it up. We threw some screens in there and hit them with some big plays. That's been lacking the last few weeks."

Detroit's combination of Maurice Morris and Keiland Williams ran the ball 24 times for 83 yards and one touchdown. Nothing earth-shattering, in terms of raw numbers, but combined with Stafford's 267 yards passing in just three quarters, the Lions offense was doing what it wanted.

"As you win, of course it feels great, but this one felt really good because we had control of the game the whole time," right guard Rob Sims said. "Going into a bye week makes it more important. Just going down the line, way more things happened that were good than bad. This is the one game I really feel like we put it together."

Morris, who scored Detroit's lone rushing touchdown on a leap over the top from the 1-yard line in the second quarter, has heard the criticism aimed at the offensive line, but came to the defense of his blockers.

"Guess what? I don't care what kind of heat the offensive line takes," Morris said. "They do a great job every week and, you know, they've been showing it this week, last week. Trust me, they do their job and they do it well."

Sims shouldered some of the blame for the Lions' recent problems.

"Me, personally, I know one thing I do is bring energy to this team, and my energy had been down for a little bit," he said. "I had to look in the mirror and -- that's my role on this team. That's my role, and the stuff that I do on this team, that's just my role, and I need to do those kind of things to win.

"I think everybody else took the same lesson and just stopped trying to do too much. We just did our jobs and it worked out."

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2011/10/detroit_lions_notes_offensive.html

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October 31st, 2011, 2:37 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
slybri19 wrote:
While I'm still not a fan of the OL, I thought they played fairly well yesterday. Best of all, they managed to cut down on the ridiculous holding and false start penalties. Here's more:

Mlive wrote:
Detroit Lions notes: Offensive line protects Matthew Stafford, opens up running lanes
Published: Sunday, October 30, 2011, 10:15 PM Updated: Sunday, October 30, 2011, 10:41 PM
By Philip Zaroo | MLive.com MLive.com

DENVER -- It had been a rough couple of weeks for the Detroit Lions, having to deal with their first two losses of the season, but the offensive line, in particular, was under a microscope.

Against Atlanta and San Francisco, the Lions gave up a total of eight sacks and quarterback Matthew Stafford was frequently on the run, rarely able to settle in and throw the ball without having to worry about pressure.

But the guys up front got back on track in Sunday's 45-10 thrashing of Denver.

Despite allowing a couple of sacks to the Broncos, the Lions were able to control the game from the beginning, running the ball efficiently and giving Stafford the time -- sometimes a lot of time -- to find his targets.

On the first of his three touchdown passes in the game, Stafford had plenty of time to find receiver Titus Young wide open in the end zone to put the Lions on top, 7-3.

The blocking was especially important because Stafford injured his right ankle last week against the Falcons. He said it gradually felt better each day, but it still wasn't 100 percent.

"The guys knew I wasn't going to be crazy mobile back there," Stafford said. "We had to use the run game, and an effective run game, at that. We ran the ball. We got yards. I know they stopped us there late in the game, but we did a good job of mixing it up. We threw some screens in there and hit them with some big plays. That's been lacking the last few weeks."

Detroit's combination of Maurice Morris and Keiland Williams ran the ball 24 times for 83 yards and one touchdown. Nothing earth-shattering, in terms of raw numbers, but combined with Stafford's 267 yards passing in just three quarters, the Lions offense was doing what it wanted.

"As you win, of course it feels great, but this one felt really good because we had control of the game the whole time," right guard Rob Sims said. "Going into a bye week makes it more important. Just going down the line, way more things happened that were good than bad. This is the one game I really feel like we put it together."

Morris, who scored Detroit's lone rushing touchdown on a leap over the top from the 1-yard line in the second quarter, has heard the criticism aimed at the offensive line, but came to the defense of his blockers.

"Guess what? I don't care what kind of heat the offensive line takes," Morris said. "They do a great job every week and, you know, they've been showing it this week, last week. Trust me, they do their job and they do it well."

Sims shouldered some of the blame for the Lions' recent problems.

"Me, personally, I know one thing I do is bring energy to this team, and my energy had been down for a little bit," he said. "I had to look in the mirror and -- that's my role on this team. That's my role, and the stuff that I do on this team, that's just my role, and I need to do those kind of things to win.

"I think everybody else took the same lesson and just stopped trying to do too much. We just did our jobs and it worked out."

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2011/10/detroit_lions_notes_offensive.html




I think sometimes we're to quick to give the O-line credit for playing a good game when the reality is that they just faced a weaker defense. It's no mystery that the O-line looks very bad (thus giving Stafford & our running game fits) when the Lions face a tougher defense and / or an elite pass rusher.

In the interest of the ongoing debate about [in my words] which causes the Lions a bigger problem; Stafford, OR, the O-Line...

ESPN.com wrote:
Oct/31, 11:15 AM ET
By Kevin Seifert


Let's make our weekly comparison between the Total Quarterback Rating and passer rating for each NFC North quarterback. In some cases, it can give us a deeper insight into how each quarterback performed. At the bottom of this post is a cumulative comparison of each metric. Keep in mind that half of the NFC North was on its bye in Week 8.

Matthew Stafford
Week 8 passer rating: 130.8
NFL rank: 1
Week 8 QBR: 94.6
NFL rank: 1
Comment: Whether you look at passer rating or QBR, Sunday was the best statistical day of Stafford's career. From a QBR perspective, his 16-of-22 performance in the first half was particularly important. Of those 16 completions, 11 went for first downs. Of his 191 total yards in the first half, 135 came in the air.

Christian Ponder
Week 8 passer rating: 102.7
NFL rank: 6
Week 8 QBR: 52.0
NFL rank: 12
Comment: Ponder's QBR was relatively lower than his passer rating because in part because he took four sacks, had a fumble and managed 4 yards on four carries. But make no mistake: Ponder had a winning performance that we'll examine more closely later Monday.


Season overview: Passer rating vs. QBR

Player ---- Passer rating --- NFL rank --- QBR --- NFL rank*

Aaron Rodgers --- 125.7 --- 1 --- 86.5 --- 1

Matthew Stafford --- 99.1 --- 5 --- 55.6 --- 16

Jay Cutler --- 84.0 --- 15 --- 45.7 --- 20

Christian Ponder --- 77.5 --- N/A --- 51.0 --- N/A

*Does not include Monday night's game

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October 31st, 2011, 10:16 pm
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