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 Lions start to struggle this is the reason 
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
Oh i completely agree. I see the issues this team has, and don't really see solutions either. They definitely aren't playing the same.

As for the 07 comparisons, when they went 6-2, those two losses were huge blowouts. You could see they didn't even belong on the field with the better teams in the league. This year, we're in the game, even playing as bad as we've played.


October 26th, 2011, 11:19 am
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
let me ask you guys who don't believe the OL is the problem... how do you feel the line has played overall, in both run and pass blocking?

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October 26th, 2011, 12:39 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
njroar wrote:
Oh i completely agree. I see the issues this team has, and don't really see solutions either. They definitely aren't playing the same.

As for the 07 comparisons, when they went 6-2, those two losses were huge blowouts. You could see they didn't even belong on the field with the better teams in the league. This year, we're in the game, even playing as bad as we've played.



+1


Thing is all I care about right now is next week. The Defense can't live on Chunky Suh-p

It's time for a TEBOW-N STEAK

Go Lions

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October 26th, 2011, 1:03 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
Ferris wrote:
njroar wrote:
Oh i completely agree. I see the issues this team has, and don't really see solutions either. They definitely aren't playing the same.

As for the 07 comparisons, when they went 6-2, those two losses were huge blowouts. You could see they didn't even belong on the field with the better teams in the league. This year, we're in the game, even playing as bad as we've played.



+1


Thing is all I care about right now is next week. The Defense can't live on Chunky Suh-p

It's time for a TEBOW-N STEAK

Go Lions

I first read this as "Tebow and steak" :lol:

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2011 AAL: Jahvid Best
Rushing: 390 Yards : 4.6 YPC : 2 TD : 65 YPG
Receiving: 287 Yards : 10.6 YPR : 1 TD : 47.8 YPG
0 Fumbles, 0 Fumbles lost
2 concussions


October 26th, 2011, 1:06 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
thegodjr wrote:
let me ask you guys who don't believe the OL is the problem... how do you feel the line has played overall, in both run and pass blocking?

As far as run blocking, it's non-existent. Defenders are 2 yards in the backfield before the ball is handed off most times. And Passing, Stafford takes more shotgun snaps than anyone in the league so that says alot as well. But then again I'm not one of the guys who don't believe the O-line is the problem. lol

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October 26th, 2011, 6:47 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
thegodjr wrote:
let me ask you guys who don't believe the OL is the problem... how do you feel the line has played overall, in both run and pass blocking?


I never said our offensive line isn't a problem, and neither did anyone else. What I've said is that the blocking isn't any better or worse now than it was in the first five games. We all know the offensive line hasn't played well, in ANY of this seasons games. Even the ones where they didn't give up sacks, that was more due to Stafford having a quick delivery than their holding off the opposing pass rush. But the fact is that EVERY team in the NFL gives up QB pressures, QB hits and QB sacks. The Lions are not the worst in the league on this. And they aren't the worst in the league in rushing.

What I, and others, are contending is that in the two Lions losses, it has been Matt Stafford who played worse than in the first five games (four and a half, actually, since he stunk it up in the first half of the Dallas game). Is it exclusively Matt's fault the Lions lost? Hell no. Is it exclusively the o-lines fault? Hell no. And that's what this all boils down to. It was team effort that won them five games, and it was lack of team effort (or more accurately, lack of team execution) that lost them these past two games. But don't sit there and say the reason Stafford has been struggling is simply because of the o-line, because that simply isn't the case. Stafford hasn't played the last two games like he did the first five. Whatever the reason, whether it be that he hasn't gotten in rhythym or he is dealing with minor injuries or whatever, he hasn't been the same. He's holding the ball a little longer, he's missing open receivers, he's staring down receivers.....watch the tapes for Heaven's sake. It's all so obvious.

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October 26th, 2011, 9:43 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
m2karateman wrote:
thegodjr wrote:
let me ask you guys who don't believe the OL is the problem... how do you feel the line has played overall, in both run and pass blocking?


I never said our offensive line isn't a problem, and neither did anyone else. What I've said is that the blocking isn't any better or worse now than it was in the first five games. We all know the offensive line hasn't played well, in ANY of this seasons games. Even the ones where they didn't give up sacks, that was more due to Stafford having a quick delivery than their holding off the opposing pass rush. But the fact is that EVERY team in the NFL gives up QB pressures, QB hits and QB sacks. The Lions are not the worst in the league on this. And they aren't the worst in the league in rushing.

What I, and others, are contending is that in the two Lions losses, it has been Matt Stafford who played worse than in the first five games (four and a half, actually, since he stunk it up in the first half of the Dallas game). Is it exclusively Matt's fault the Lions lost? Hell no. Is it exclusively the o-lines fault? Hell no. And that's what this all boils down to. It was team effort that won them five games, and it was lack of team effort (or more accurately, lack of team execution) that lost them these past two games. But don't sit there and say the reason Stafford has been struggling is simply because of the o-line, because that simply isn't the case. Stafford hasn't played the last two games like he did the first five. Whatever the reason, whether it be that he hasn't gotten in rhythym or he is dealing with minor injuries or whatever, he hasn't been the same. He's holding the ball a little longer, he's missing open receivers, he's staring down receivers.....watch the tapes for Heaven's sake. It's all so obvious.

do you honestly believe the dribble you're spewing?

I don't like repeating myself, but it bears repeating...

first 5 games: 1.2 sacks/gm and 4.6 hits/gm
last 2 games: 4 sacks/gm and 7.5 hits/gm

Those numbers are indisputable. Unless you want to argue that Stafford is causing the OL to play worse (lol)

Now for my subjective opinion- the first 5 games, Stafford would stand tall in the pocket and take a shot, if necessary, to deliver an accurate ball. The clock in his head was ticking right on time. The past two, he has been throwing off his back foot a lot, and his mechanics have been way off. Also, the clock in his head is moving much faster than before, which was proven in the ATL game when he was actually given great protection for a play, but still rushed the throw (the commentators noted this as well). This is due to the fact he 1) does not want to continue to take the beating he has been and 2) he doesn't trust his OL. Both of those reasons are due to poor OL play. Also, I don't see how he holds the ball for too long... he tries to get the ball out quick - too quick - and that is why he is playing poorly. Watch the tapes for Heaven's sake. It's all so obvious. You're looking into it too much and as a result are getting cute with your assessment.

EDIT: you didn't even answer my original question you quoted....

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Rushing: 390 Yards : 4.6 YPC : 2 TD : 65 YPG
Receiving: 287 Yards : 10.6 YPR : 1 TD : 47.8 YPG
0 Fumbles, 0 Fumbles lost
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October 27th, 2011, 2:06 am
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
so what you believe is that sacks and QB pressures is strictly a measure of the offensive line? The QB has NOTHING to do with that?

If that's the case, you know NOTHING about football.

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October 27th, 2011, 6:36 am
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
m2karateman wrote:
so what you believe is that sacks and QB pressures is strictly a measure of the offensive line? The QB has NOTHING to do with that?

If that's the case, you know NOTHING about football.

Did I say that?

EDIT: still didn't answer the original question

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2011 AAL: Jahvid Best
Rushing: 390 Yards : 4.6 YPC : 2 TD : 65 YPG
Receiving: 287 Yards : 10.6 YPR : 1 TD : 47.8 YPG
0 Fumbles, 0 Fumbles lost
2 concussions


October 27th, 2011, 8:32 am
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
thegodjr wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
so what you believe is that sacks and QB pressures is strictly a measure of the offensive line? The QB has NOTHING to do with that?

If that's the case, you know NOTHING about football.

Did I say that?

EDIT: still didn't answer the original question


thegodjr wrote:
Those numbers are indisputable. Unless you want to argue that Stafford is causing the OL to play worse (lol)


Did you not say this? And the fact is, Stafford CAN cause the OL to APPEAR to play worse. You keep throwing out those statistics, like it is evidence against strictly the offensive line. It is nothing of the kind. It is evidence against the entire offense.

How so?

Let me explain.

Remember Jon Kitna? Remember when he was the Lions QB? What was the number one criticism of Kitna? Do you remember?

He holds the ball too long.

Anybody, please, correct me if I'm wrong on this. Wasn't that the major criticism of Jon Kitna as a Lion?

Now, when a QB holds the ball too long....what does that result in? Pressure? Hits? Sacks?

What about this scenario.....a RB is supposed to stay in to pickup a blitz. The QB reads the blitz, changes the RB duties, and he's supposed to pick up that blitz. The RB either fails on the block, or fails to hear the change. The QB gets pressured, hit or sacked. Is that the fault of the offensive line?

A wide receiver runs the wrong route. The QB is looking for him, but can't see where he is, and as a result holds the ball longer than he wanted to. He's gotten a full 3.5 seconds to throw the ball, but he gets pressured, hit or sacked.
Is that the offensive lines fault as well?

The offensive coordinator, knowing that he is facing a team with a strong pass rush, still keeps calling plays that don't slow down the rush, don't keep extra blockers in, and basically plays right to the strengths of the opposing team. I suppose that is the fault of the offensive line as well.

So....all your statistics aren't a prosecution of the offensive line....it's a prosecution of the entire offense. And comparing a five game sample to a two game sample is EXTREMELY misleading.

It's funny that others on this board notice that Stafford's play has been different the past two games, but you can't see it. You want to say that the offensive line is the cause of this difference in play, and is the cause of the increase in pressures, hits and sacks. I say the offensive line is still playing the same that they have in the first five games, and that Stafford is playing differently.

thegodjr wrote:
let me ask you guys who don't believe the OL is the problem... how do you feel the line has played overall, in both run and pass blocking?


And let me repeat what I said before......IN ALL SEVEN GAMES THE OFFENSIVE LINE HASN'T DONE THAT WELL. Their level of play, in my opinion, is no worse in games six and seven than it was in games one and two.

Now if that doesn't answer your frickin' sacred question, I don't know what answer you are looking for.

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October 27th, 2011, 10:40 am
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
Couldn't it be possible that the Lions are forced to throw the ball more because they can't run with Best being hurt? And because he's throwing, and the defense knows it, sacks and pressures are more frequent?

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October 27th, 2011, 10:52 am
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
49ers wrote:
Couldn't it be possible that the Lions are forced to throw the ball more because they can't run with Best being hurt? And because he's throwing, and the defense knows it, sacks and pressures are more frequent?


It really has nothing to do with Best being hurt or not. They weren't running the ball that well when Best was healthy. It has to do with the fact that the Lions running game just isn't that good. Whether that be blocking, playcalling, lack of vision for the RB, or a mixture of the three....that's just how it's been.

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October 27th, 2011, 11:00 am
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
Stafford cant complete screens and flips to Morris, best, Williams, or any other rb. It doesn't matter who the rb is.

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October 27th, 2011, 11:38 am
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
Regarding the "QB's fault" vs. "OL fault" in regard to offensive effectiveness, I'd suggest that the biggest change we've seen over the past two weeks is how opponents are challenging the receivers at the line. Our guys aren't getting off the jam quickly enough and that is contributing to the sense of increased pressure, and to the skittishness we've seen from Stafford. Even if the pressure doesn't get in his face, there's no sense in holding the ball an extra moment unless you see a potential passing lane opening up. If a lane isn't opening, then throwing at the receiver's feet is sometimes a better option than taking a sack.

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October 27th, 2011, 12:06 pm
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Post Re: Lions start to struggle this is the reason
thegodjr wrote:
let me ask you guys who don't believe the OL is the problem... how do you feel the line has played overall, in both run and pass blocking?

i think the glaring weaknesses in our OL is the same. backus needs chip block help all day or he is abused regularly and raoila gets blown up about a yard or two on most plays. sims has helped some, peterman is ok and gosder is pretty solid, but makes mistakes with penalties.
gotta keep the quick reads for stafford and dink and dunk til the safeties creep up and opens the deep ball for CJ. Burleson dropped a huge pass last sunday that killed a drive in the 4th quarter. hope they can get something going..

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October 27th, 2011, 2:58 pm
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