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 Lions' problems can be traced to their leader 
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
49ers wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Players act of their own volition. These are grown men playing this game, not elementary school children. They act, not based on what their coach tells them to do, but based on what they feel they have to. If the players, as you say, act as an extension of their coach, then the Jets would be absolutely over the top with their penalties.

I'm going to disagree to a point. Vernon Davis: selfish player that didn't care until Singletary kicking him out of a game, then reemed him out publicly and privately. He turned it around because the coach CONDEMNED his actions, the opposite of what Mike Nolan did. Dre Bly also, with his famous "Dre bein Dre" speach after he celebrated an interception when the Niners were being blown out, and proceeded to fumble it back to the other team. Dre refused to change, and was released. Again, an action that wasn't condoned.

The team changed. The attitude changed. Stupid penalties STOPPED. Selfish actions STOPPED. Singletary, however, couldn't coach and was therefore released.

Harbaugh comes in with this "I'm gonna play my game and I don't care what you say" attitude. The players all have the same attitude. But as far as stupid play goes, he doesn't condone it. When Goldson threw a punch, he was pulled from the game, as well as reemed out by Harbaugh.

You said Jets players. Rex Ryan isn't angry the same way Schwartz is. Rex is always smiling and laughing with his players. He challenges them to play tough and play hard. NO EXCUSES. That's what he preaches, and his players play the way he preaches.

Schwartz is different. I see "controlled rage" when I look at him. It's just how I see it. He's an angry guy, and his players portray that. How many STUPID penalties did you see vs the Saints in which the players threw a punch or a ball at a player, or pushed a ref, etc? So many. Too many.

It all starts at the top. No other team in the NFL behaves like the Lions do. NOT ONE. Schwartz is allowing it.

I'm not here to bash you personally. Please know that.


So, you don't know the man. You have never met him. But, you can just look at him and see him as being a future axe murderer. Maybe he just looks angry to you because he has a tooth ache. Now run along. I would think you spend you time on your teams site. Not ours.


December 7th, 2011, 3:44 am
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
Pablo wrote:
Sounds like a certain 49ers fan who has been posting on here recently.


You have the power to change that. LOL.


December 7th, 2011, 3:46 am
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
49ers wrote:
Pablo wrote:
He writes things to stir things up, more than what he really believes. Sounds like a certain 49ers fan who has been posting on here recently.

So my whole purpose is to stir things up? I don't really believe in what I say?

Don't know why you would think that. I believe that the Lions nearly have all the pieces to succeed, I've said that quite a few times. Their coaching is killing them. I've never liked Schwartz as a coach.

I don't know how someone could watch that game yesterday, see all those players losing their cool, and NOT blame the coach for that. A coach in control doesn't allow that bs. That's all on Schwartz.


So, your claiming to be Peter King? :roll:


December 7th, 2011, 3:48 am
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
49ers wrote:
“We’re undisciplined. Undisciplined. Undisciplined,” Raiola said “We [expletive] it up. It’s very disheartening to do this [expletive] in big games. We got to clean it up. We ain’t going to win [expletive] games like this if you play like that.”

If a team is undisciplined, who's fault is that? The players say they are undisciplined. Who is at fault? Who's job is it to discipline?


The players, actually. These are grown men making their own decisions on the field. I agree that Schwartz hasn't handled it like I think he should, or you think he should....at least that WE see. Nobody knows what is being said behind the locker room door. No NFL coach is going to tell their players "get away with as much as you can, even if it means taking a personal foul that moves us away from scoring range."

You said in another post that you've never liked Schwartz, so your opinion is not unbiased. On top of that, you feel what Harbaugh did was OK, but what Schwartz did was not with the whole handshake debacle. I don't accept Schwartz running down Harbaugh, but the root cause of that whole incident was Harbaugh being a douchebag. So again, your opinion is not totally unbiased.

Players CAN control themselves. Not every players on the Lions has gone ballistic and started smacking people on the field, or after the whistle. Individuals choose their own actions, and not always based on what their coach will accept or not accept. And, the coach can't simply cut any player he wants....at least not on this team. He doesn't have that power. He can, however, bench a player for his actions. But, at the same time, the ultimate goal for any head coach in the NFL is not to be a disciplinarian, or a friend, or a mentor, or a therapist. Their goal is to win games.

Yes, I agree that Schwartz needs to address these issues. And he can rant and rave in the locker room and punish players responsible. But in the end, it's the choice of the players to either follow him or not.

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December 7th, 2011, 10:31 am
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
m2karateman wrote:
49ers wrote:
If a team is undisciplined, who's fault is that? The players say they are undisciplined. Who is at fault? Who's job is it to discipline?
The players, actually.

Well you would be the one and only person I've ever seen say this then.

m2karateman wrote:
You said in another post that you've never liked Schwartz, so your opinion is not unbiased. On top of that, you feel what Harbaugh did was OK, but what Schwartz did was not with the whole handshake debacle. I don't accept Schwartz running down Harbaugh, but the root cause of that whole incident was Harbaugh being a douchebag. So again, your opinion is not totally unbiased.

Really? Then explain these quotes, searchable on this forum:
49ers wrote:
Harbaugh should have been less enthusiastic and shook his hand a little better
49ers wrote:
I wouldn't have done what Harbs did. He was in the wrong for doing it. He could have gone about it a totally different way and still got his point across. When he was jumping up and down, I was a little embarrassed. Act like you've been there before man.

Maybe you're thinking of what someone else said. Harbs was wrong, I said it before. I remember feeling embarrassed for watching that whole thing play out. Harbs was very wrong for doing what he did to Schwartz. I understand why he did it, I just disagree with doing it at all.

m2karateman wrote:
Players CAN control themselves. Not every players on the Lions has gone ballistic and started smacking people on the field, or after the whistle. Individuals choose their own actions, and not always based on what their coach will accept or not accept. And, the coach can't simply cut any player he wants....at least not on this team. He doesn't have that power. He can, however, bench a player for his actions. But, at the same time, the ultimate goal for any head coach in the NFL is not to be a disciplinarian, or a friend, or a mentor, or a therapist. Their goal is to win games.

Yes, I agree that Schwartz needs to address these issues. And he can rant and rave in the locker room and punish players responsible. But in the end, it's the choice of the players to either follow him or not.

A coach that has control doesn't have players that lose their cool or act out. Belichick is a great example. Randy Moss was a little punk, made it to the Patriots and behaved. When he was waived from the Pats, he started to act up again. Coincidence? Or did Belichick have control? What about Chad Ochocinco? How much have you heard from him? No comments. No showing off during practice (his only chance really haha). Even his twitter is dead. Coincidence? Or does Belichick have control of their actions on and off the field?

If one player did one thing (Suh), and he kept being a jackass, then OK. I still blamed Schwartz, but I was also blaming Suh. Now that it's been several players, I'm blaming Schwartz more than anyone. He's lost control. I stand by what I said before.

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December 7th, 2011, 2:35 pm
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
BillySims wrote:
So, you don't know the man. You have never met him. But, you can just look at him and see him as being a future axe murderer. Maybe he just looks angry to you because he has a tooth ache. Now run along. I would think you spend you time on your teams site. Not ours.

I'm very truthful and honest. When I bashed TO as a player (when he was a 49er), I was ridiculed, even though I was a 49er fan. I am not very biased in my thoughts and comments. TO was a cancer, and I didn't care how awesome he was as a player, I wanted him out. I've been happy since the day he left.

All I ever see from Schwartz is a scowl that seems to be hiding something. He comes off as a guy that is reserved and angry. What does it matter what I think, anyway? It's an opinion that I see. If you disagree, that's fine. I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

Besides, a lot of Lions fans agree with me. That can be found on this forum too. How come you aren't talking to them about this?

Detroit Link agreeing with me: http://www.foxsportsdetroit.com/11/30/1 ... kID=615548

So does Tony Dungy: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... e-for-suh/

And a host of others I could post.

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December 7th, 2011, 2:46 pm
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
PS - I understand the hate. When someone says something you don't like to hear, your first reaction is anger and disgust. It's easy to retaliate when a fan of another team says it too, so I don't take it personally. It'll take time, but I think you'll see I may be on to something.

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December 7th, 2011, 2:48 pm
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
49ers...I'd love to hate all over your parade but you do have some valid points. What I'd like to address is your comments about " controlled rage" that you seem to think our coach has.

A team doesn't always take on the persona of a coach when on the field. sometimes they take the persona of the dominant on field leader of the team. Take the ravens of the past. Billick is NOT an angry guy at all but at times his team would commit 13-15-heck even 17 penalties in a game! does that mean Brian Billick is a closet rage-a-holic? he even looked upset when his team pissed away games due to silly penalties. and yet...he has yet to display any rage publicly. Much like our very own Swartz.

Swartz IS fiery..much like your own coach. but to be on the level...if he didn't look pissed when the players start acting like asshats on the field i think we would then have a serious problem. him being upset when the guys who are supposed to be in control of themselves fail misserably that is...well... normal in my book.

Sorry bud, but you views of the "SWARTZ OF RAGE" is you being biased. we see him more than you...he's not that kinda guy.

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December 7th, 2011, 3:06 pm
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
49ers wrote:
BillySims wrote:
So, you don't know the man. You have never met him. But, you can just look at him and see him as being a future axe murderer. Maybe he just looks angry to you because he has a tooth ache. Now run along. I would think you spend you time on your teams site. Not ours.

I'm very truthful and honest. When I bashed TO as a player (when he was a 49er), I was ridiculed, even though I was a 49er fan. I am not very biased in my thoughts and comments. TO was a cancer, and I didn't care how awesome he was as a player, I wanted him out. I've been happy since the day he left.

All I ever see from Schwartz is a scowl that seems to be hiding something. He comes off as a guy that is reserved and angry. What does it matter what I think, anyway? It's an opinion that I see. If you disagree, that's fine. I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

Besides, a lot of Lions fans agree with me. That can be found on this forum too. How come you aren't talking to them about this?

Detroit Link agreeing with me: http://www.foxsportsdetroit.com/11/30/1 ... kID=615548

So does Tony Dungy: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... e-for-suh/

And a host of others I could post.


I've listened to a lot of Schwartz interviews and press conferences, and the 'Schwartz is angry' meme just doesn't ring true. Yes, he's excitable in game situations, but he's far from the only coach like that. If you go by PFT and other sites more concerned with hits than facts, Schwartz is a borderline schizophrenic and the team facility is akin to a workout area at a jail. The reality is much more mundane, I'm afraid.

I think what people don't appreciate from you is your parroting the narrative that the national media is selling re: The Lions. We'll see how you react when the 49ers lose a few games, and the 'fiery' Harbaugh becomes 'crazy' Harbaugh and your 'tough' defense becomes 'dirty.' You may think that's not a possibility, but these things turn on a dime.

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December 7th, 2011, 3:11 pm
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
thelomasbrowns wrote:
I think what people don't appreciate from you is your parroting the narrative that the national media is selling re: The Lions.

Well this isn't true. It might appear that way but I wrote what I thought first, then went on google to see who agreed and disagreed with me. If people disagreed, I would read as to why in case I wanted to retract my statements. This wasn't the case, I found more that agreed than disagreed, so I decided to post a couple to show that I'm not alone. I felt I needed to do so because, well hell, I'm the only one saying it and I needed backup. :nerd:

And it doesn't mean I'm right. You guys say Schwartz isn't that way, and I'd trust a Lions fan more than someone else. I just see his scowl (even his pre-game scowl, just before the Saints game) and can't help but think it. Am I right? Maybe not. But I can't help but think it when I see him on camera for some reason.

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December 7th, 2011, 9:44 pm
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
49ers wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
I think what people don't appreciate from you is your parroting the narrative that the national media is selling re: The Lions.

Well this isn't true. It might appear that way but I wrote what I thought first, then went on google to see who agreed and disagreed with me. If people disagreed, I would read as to why in case I wanted to retract my statements. This wasn't the case, I found more that agreed than disagreed, so I decided to post a couple to show that I'm not alone. I felt I needed to do so because, well hell, I'm the only one saying it and I needed backup. :nerd:

And it doesn't mean I'm right. You guys say Schwartz isn't that way, and I'd trust a Lions fan more than someone else. I just see his scowl (even his pre-game scowl, just before the Saints game) and can't help but think it. Am I right? Maybe not. But I can't help but think it when I see him on camera for some reason.



I can understand someone having the feeling that Schwartz is "angry". However, as I said before, based on what you are judging it on, you can point to countless numbers of coaches and say the same thing. Jon Gruden had a constant scowl on his face. The only time I ever recall seeing him smile as a coach was when Tampa Bay finally won the Super Bowl.

Don Coryell was another one. He was one of the angriest looking coaches I had seen. But by all accounts, he was a very easy going guy.

One of the reasons most of the Lions fans will say that Schwartz isn't that way is because we hear him on local radio making jokes, answering difficult questions without blowing up, etc. He's very deadpan we he jokes, but he is pretty funny.

And hey, a guy who listens to Megadeth and Metallica can't be all bad.

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December 8th, 2011, 9:58 am
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
Does it really matter if an NFL coach exudes a scowl? Cowher, Gruden, Switzer, Parcells, even Bellicheck has a look of intensity on his face.

I don't really give a crap if Schwartz is angry, has anger issues, wants to punt puppies, hates his mother, smashes dollhouses as a hobby, or is otherwise affected by his emotions.
What I do care about is whether the team he is coaching has discipline, poise, and focus on the field that is transferred into execution and performance on par with their talent.
The latter has not happened, so I have an issue with Schwartz. I am guessing that he will be able to shelve his supposed "anger" issues long enough to clean up the issues the Lions are having and move forward. Then Lions fans can get back to the business of being proud of the team they support, which is improving steadily.

FOR THE RECORD, THE 49ers ARE OVER-RATED AND WILL NOT WIN A PLAYOFF GAME, MARK IT DOWN.


December 8th, 2011, 12:23 pm
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
jcmessing wrote:
Does it really matter if an NFL coach exudes a scowl? Cowher, Gruden, Switzer, Parcells, even Bellicheck has a look of intensity on his face.

I don't really give a crap if Schwartz is angry, has anger issues, wants to punt puppies, hates his mother, smashes dollhouses as a hobby, or is otherwise affected by his emotions.
What I do care about is whether the team he is coaching has discipline, poise, and focus on the field that is transferred into execution and performance on par with their talent.
The latter has not happened, so I have an issue with Schwartz. I am guessing that he will be able to shelve his supposed "anger" issues long enough to clean up the issues the Lions are having and move forward. Then Lions fans can get back to the business of being proud of the team they support, which is improving steadily.

FOR THE RECORD, THE 49ers ARE OVER-RATED AND WILL NOT WIN A PLAYOFF GAME, MARK IT DOWN.

I WHOLE HEARTEDLY AGREE WITH EVERY WORD IN THIS POST

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December 8th, 2011, 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
Pablo wrote:
49ers wrote:
.

"2. It's been years since I've seen a team as undisciplined and as angry as Detroit." -Peter King

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1fgWo4XXr

Peter King agrees with me. You guys are viewing it from within, so it doesn't look as bad.

I don't hate the Lions. I love the team and city, AND FANS. You guys have suffered long enough. You are blind because of the record of the Lions, and you're currently outside looking in as far as playoffs are concerned. Schwartz isn't going to get the job done. Too many mistakes. Too many anger problems. Schwartz is condoning the behavior, not condemning it.


Peter King also predicted the Lions would win the Super Bowl before the season started!!!

He writes things to stir things up, more than what he really believes. Sounds like a certain 49ers fan who has been posting on here recently.



Before the start of the season all he could go by is talent. Perhaps he thinks we have the talent, but after watching our play believes that we lack the discipline. Seems reasonable to me... if not plausible.


December 9th, 2011, 10:51 am
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Post Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
49ers wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
I think what people don't appreciate from you is your parroting the narrative that the national media is selling re: The Lions.

Well this isn't true. It might appear that way but I wrote what I thought first, then went on google to see who agreed and disagreed with me. If people disagreed, I would read as to why in case I wanted to retract my statements. This wasn't the case, I found more that agreed than disagreed, so I decided to post a couple to show that I'm not alone. I felt I needed to do so because, well hell, I'm the only one saying it and I needed backup. :nerd:

And it doesn't mean I'm right. You guys say Schwartz isn't that way, and I'd trust a Lions fan more than someone else. I just see his scowl (even his pre-game scowl, just before the Saints game) and can't help but think it. Am I right? Maybe not. But I can't help but think it when I see him on camera for some reason.


What you are interpreting as a scowl is called INTENSITY. And that is the look I have always wanted from my HC. Tom Landry is dead. The Modern NFL pretty much requires brash and Intense HC's. HC's that show no emotion at all are a dying breed. And if Harbaugh had acted like he has been there before, instead of doing Cartwheels and then trying to punch his hand through Schwartz's back and out his chest, then the scrum after our game wouldn't have happened. I would beat him into a bloody pulp.


December 9th, 2011, 11:10 pm
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