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Lions' problems can be traced to their leader
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Author:  The Legend [ January 11th, 2012, 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader

Quote:
Ben is always getting blasted. His OL is NOT a very good pass protecting group. Whoever thinks they are sure don't watch Steelers games. They're especially bad without Pouncey.

Ben holds the ball a long time and he pays for it. He takes more shots than Stafford, not to mention, he's usually running for his life.


100% agree, their offense is built around big ben's legs buying team and escaping the rush to have the speedy receivers finally come open

Author:  mactank [ January 11th, 2012, 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader

Ya'll can bad mouth the leadership of the Lions all you want, but we have made huge strides from 0-16 three years ago. And the strides will continue. How many of you actually believed the Lions would be in the playoffs with a 10-6 record? I would have been happy with 9-6. That would STILL have made progress. So now we're in the off-season. Extend Calvin's contract, resign Avril, and some other free agents on the team, then Go after CB, OL, another Safety, and hope that Lishore, Best, and Smith are healthy. Anyone that doesn't believe that this a work in progress is sick in the head. We'll get there!

Now for Harbaugh........ The talent was there, all he had to do was bring in stud coaches. He did that, and game planned for Smith's weaknesses. Smart, but not that hard. Singletary"s tactics did not work, but the talent was there. He didn't know how to tap it and teach it.

Mayhew and Schwartz? They had to gut and rebuild..... They got the QB, who was beat up the first two years, but look at him now, They went D-Line, impressive. Then Line backers. Yes the O line is getting old, but they did well this year. That is one of the next steps along with DB's in draft and free agency. Keep in mind that we are at the point where we can afford to draft for need and not the best player available as we have had to do the last three years.

We'll get there.

GO LIONS!!!!!!

Author:  wjb21ndtown [ January 12th, 2012, 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader

The Legend wrote:
Quote:
Ben is always getting blasted. His OL is NOT a very good pass protecting group. Whoever thinks they are sure don't watch Steelers games. They're especially bad without Pouncey.

Ben holds the ball a long time and he pays for it. He takes more shots than Stafford, not to mention, he's usually running for his life.


100% agree, their offense is built around big ben's legs buying team and escaping the rush to have the speedy receivers finally come open



And a good ground game/screen game that negates blitzers. That's HUGE! Does Ben have to run a lot? Sure... IMO his greatest attribute is his ability to buy time, and that he's very difficult to bring down.

You can bash Pitts pass protect all you want. They run block well enough to keep the opposing teams DE's in check, and they screen well enough (and rush well against the blitz well enough) to keep teams from blitzing on them.

If I had a choice between a run block OL and a pass block OL I'd take the run block... And we can't run block at all...

Author:  Lions2SB2 [ January 12th, 2012, 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader

wjb21ndtown wrote:
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
Ben is always getting blasted. His OL is NOT a very good pass protecting group. Whoever thinks they are sure don't watch Steelers games. They're especially bad without Pouncey.

Ben holds the ball a long time and he pays for it. He takes more shots than Stafford, not to mention, he's usually running for his life.


100% agree, their offense is built around big ben's legs buying team and escaping the rush to have the speedy receivers finally come open



And a good ground game/screen game that negates blitzers. That's HUGE! Does Ben have to run a lot? Sure... IMO his greatest attribute is his ability to buy time, and that he's very difficult to bring down.

You can bash Pitts pass protect all you want. They run block well enough to keep the opposing teams DE's in check, and they screen well enough (and rush well against the blitz well enough) to keep teams from blitzing on them.

If I had a choice between a run block OL and a pass block OL I'd take the run block... And we can't run block at all...


Agree, this is why he is so good.

Author:  jcmessing [ January 18th, 2012, 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader

jcmessing wrote:
49ers wrote:
jcmessing wrote:
As a niner's fan you better pray that the Saint's don't come in there first, because they will run up and down the field in San Fran just as easily as the Packers, and definitely as easily as the Giants. You want to play any team without an offense that will expose the Niners offense when they are forced to go tit for tat. When they are down by 20 in the first half the niners will be forced to face the fact that they are a bubble team (See: Atlanta Falcons, 2010) that has a lot to prove before they can hang with the likes of the top tier in the NFL. We've seen this before with teams, and one bad playoff game certainly doesn't mean the Saints aren't potent, they've proven they can win in the playoffs.

No. I know my team better than you. Our offense is better than you realize. I want the Saints.


Well, 49ers, you got what you wished for. Good luck. Gotta say though, I'm sticking with my statement that the niners won't win a game in the playoffs.


Since my whole plan was to openly mock 49ers when the Saints won by 20 based on this post, I feel obligated to eat my words publicly. Congrats 49ers.

Author:  49ers [ January 20th, 2012, 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader

jcmessing wrote:
Since my whole plan was to openly mock 49ers when the Saints won by 20 based on this post, I feel obligated to eat my words publicly. Congrats 49ers.

=D> :D

Author:  m2karateman [ January 26th, 2012, 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader

mactank wrote:
Ya'll can bad mouth the leadership of the Lions all you want, but we have made huge strides from 0-16 three years ago. And the strides will continue. How many of you actually believed the Lions would be in the playoffs with a 10-6 record? I would have been happy with 9-6. That would STILL have made progress. So now we're in the off-season. Extend Calvin's contract, resign Avril, and some other free agents on the team, then Go after CB, OL, another Safety, and hope that Lishore, Best, and Smith are healthy. Anyone that doesn't believe that this a work in progress is sick in the head. We'll get there!


First off, that was one misguided individual. There are some things that Schwartz still needs to work on, but the fact is that he's the right man for the job here. To state that he can't get the Lions over the hump and into the Super Bowl is foolishness. There's no evidence to that. He got the Lions into the playoffs a helluvalot sooner than most expected three seasons ago.

mactank wrote:
Now for Harbaugh........ The talent was there, all he had to do was bring in stud coaches. He did that, and game planned for Smith's weaknesses. Smart, but not that hard. Singletary"s tactics did not work, but the talent was there. He didn't know how to tap it and teach it.


I am not a Harbaugh fan, at all. I think he's an egotistical prick. However, football is more than about JUST collecting talent. Ask Jerry Jones. Ask Daniel Snyder. Most of the players were there in SF already. The fact is that Harbaugh created some cohesion and belief. Schwartz is doing the same here. I give Harbaugh all the credit he deserves for tapping into that talent and making it work so quickly. Not every coach could have done that. It's not just that simple.

mactank wrote:
Mayhew and Schwartz? They had to gut and rebuild..... They got the QB, who was beat up the first two years, but look at him now, They went D-Line, impressive. Then Line backers. Yes the O line is getting old, but they did well this year. That is one of the next steps along with DB's in draft and free agency. Keep in mind that we are at the point where we can afford to draft for need and not the best player available as we have had to do the last three years.


You start drafting based on needs, then you have problems all over again. Drafting based on needs gets you reaches and too often lands you a pedestrian talent. The Lions philosophy is to draft BPA with some common sense. If they stick to that, everything will be fine. Not having as many needs allows the Lions to move around in the draft a little more freely. They can move up or down to get into a position to grab a targeted player. That player may be targeted because of their immense talent, or it may be due to their ability to start for the Lions at a position of need. However, whatever the case the Lions should continue to work towards getting the best talent for the value of their picks. They haven't gone wrong doing that so far, it seems. No use in changing philosophies now.

Author:  DJ-B [ January 27th, 2012, 4:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader

m2karateman wrote:
mactank wrote:
Ya'll can bad mouth the leadership of the Lions all you want, but we have made huge strides from 0-16 three years ago. And the strides will continue. How many of you actually believed the Lions would be in the playoffs with a 10-6 record? I would have been happy with 9-6. That would STILL have made progress. So now we're in the off-season. Extend Calvin's contract, resign Avril, and some other free agents on the team, then Go after CB, OL, another Safety, and hope that Lishore, Best, and Smith are healthy. Anyone that doesn't believe that this a work in progress is sick in the head. We'll get there!


First off, that was one misguided individual. There are some things that Schwartz still needs to work on, but the fact is that he's the right man for the job here. To state that he can't get the Lions over the hump and into the Super Bowl is foolishness. There's no evidence to that. He got the Lions into the playoffs a helluvalot sooner than most expected three seasons ago.

mactank wrote:
Now for Harbaugh........ The talent was there, all he had to do was bring in stud coaches. He did that, and game planned for Smith's weaknesses. Smart, but not that hard. Singletary"s tactics did not work, but the talent was there. He didn't know how to tap it and teach it.


I am not a Harbaugh fan, at all. I think he's an egotistical prick. However, football is more than about JUST collecting talent. Ask Jerry Jones. Ask Daniel Snyder. Most of the players were there in SF already. The fact is that Harbaugh created some cohesion and belief. Schwartz is doing the same here. I give Harbaugh all the credit he deserves for tapping into that talent and making it work so quickly. Not every coach could have done that. It's not just that simple.

mactank wrote:
Mayhew and Schwartz? They had to gut and rebuild..... They got the QB, who was beat up the first two years, but look at him now, They went D-Line, impressive. Then Line backers. Yes the O line is getting old, but they did well this year. That is one of the next steps along with DB's in draft and free agency. Keep in mind that we are at the point where we can afford to draft for need and not the best player available as we have had to do the last three years.


You start drafting based on needs, then you have problems all over again. Drafting based on needs gets you reaches and too often lands you a pedestrian talent. The Lions philosophy is to draft BPA with some common sense. If they stick to that, everything will be fine. Not having as many needs allows the Lions to move around in the draft a little more freely. They can move up or down to get into a position to grab a targeted player. That player may be targeted because of their immense talent, or it may be due to their ability to start for the Lions at a position of need. However, whatever the case the Lions should continue to work towards getting the best talent for the value of their picks. They haven't gone wrong doing that so far, it seems. No use in changing philosophies now.


Boom, Headshot. Dead correct on all counts.

Also, i think people dont understand what Mayhew/Schwartz mean when they say BPA. They mean BPA... ON THEIR DRAFT BOARD. Not Yours, Not Mine, Not El Pelo's, Not McShays..... They build that board based on multiple things. First and Foremost, raw talent. But they also Upgrade players and Downgrade players based on their Position. Many thought Fairley would go top 5, some top 3.... But if Fairley AND Peterson had been available at the Lions pick, we allknow they would have taken Petersen, because he was rated Over fairley on our board, because he was at a position of need. Our FO takes into account positions of need, but they build it into their board. When Draft day comes they can then feel good about taking the Best Player Available from that board... because it is already taking need and common sense into account. I thought this was pretty obvious to everyone that this is what they mean when they say BPA... and it is working... and I hope they stick with it.

Author:  liontrax [ January 27th, 2012, 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lions' problems can be traced to their leader

DJ-B wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
mactank wrote:
Ya'll can bad mouth the leadership of the Lions all you want, but we have made huge strides from 0-16 three years ago. And the strides will continue. How many of you actually believed the Lions would be in the playoffs with a 10-6 record? I would have been happy with 9-6. That would STILL have made progress. So now we're in the off-season. Extend Calvin's contract, resign Avril, and some other free agents on the team, then Go after CB, OL, another Safety, and hope that Lishore, Best, and Smith are healthy. Anyone that doesn't believe that this a work in progress is sick in the head. We'll get there!


First off, that was one misguided individual. There are some things that Schwartz still needs to work on, but the fact is that he's the right man for the job here. To state that he can't get the Lions over the hump and into the Super Bowl is foolishness. There's no evidence to that. He got the Lions into the playoffs a helluvalot sooner than most expected three seasons ago.

mactank wrote:
Now for Harbaugh........ The talent was there, all he had to do was bring in stud coaches. He did that, and game planned for Smith's weaknesses. Smart, but not that hard. Singletary"s tactics did not work, but the talent was there. He didn't know how to tap it and teach it.


I am not a Harbaugh fan, at all. I think he's an egotistical prick. However, football is more than about JUST collecting talent. Ask Jerry Jones. Ask Daniel Snyder. Most of the players were there in SF already. The fact is that Harbaugh created some cohesion and belief. Schwartz is doing the same here. I give Harbaugh all the credit he deserves for tapping into that talent and making it work so quickly. Not every coach could have done that. It's not just that simple.

mactank wrote:
Mayhew and Schwartz? They had to gut and rebuild..... They got the QB, who was beat up the first two years, but look at him now, They went D-Line, impressive. Then Line backers. Yes the O line is getting old, but they did well this year. That is one of the next steps along with DB's in draft and free agency. Keep in mind that we are at the point where we can afford to draft for need and not the best player available as we have had to do the last three years.


You start drafting based on needs, then you have problems all over again. Drafting based on needs gets you reaches and too often lands you a pedestrian talent. The Lions philosophy is to draft BPA with some common sense. If they stick to that, everything will be fine. Not having as many needs allows the Lions to move around in the draft a little more freely. They can move up or down to get into a position to grab a targeted player. That player may be targeted because of their immense talent, or it may be due to their ability to start for the Lions at a position of need. However, whatever the case the Lions should continue to work towards getting the best talent for the value of their picks. They haven't gone wrong doing that so far, it seems. No use in changing philosophies now.


Boom, Headshot. Dead correct on all counts.

Also, i think people dont understand what Mayhew/Schwartz mean when they say BPA. They mean BPA... ON THEIR DRAFT BOARD. Not Yours, Not Mine, Not El Pelo's, Not McShays..... They build that board based on multiple things. First and Foremost, raw talent. But they also Upgrade players and Downgrade players based on their Position. Many thought Fairley would go top 5, some top 3.... But if Fairley AND Peterson had been available at the Lions pick, we allknow they would have taken Petersen, because he was rated Over fairley on our board, because he was at a position of need. Our FO takes into account positions of need, but they build it into their board. When Draft day comes they can then feel good about taking the Best Player Available from that board... because it is already taking need and common sense into account. I thought this was pretty obvious to everyone that this is what they mean when they say BPA... and it is working... and I hope they stick with it.


+1 :cheers:

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