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 Should Schwartz be Let Go? 
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
Ray Lewis clean on and off the field?

Umm, what?

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December 10th, 2011, 12:56 am
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
Honestly, if they finish 8-8 I think Mayhew has to consider it.



"It depends" is my answer. It depends on who is available. There is no doubt in my mind that Jim Harbaugh is a better coach than Jim Schwartz - no doubt. Harbaugh wouldn't tolerate this nonsense on his team. You know how I know? Because it doesn't EXIST on his team. Singletary had a problem-child or two. Look at all of the issues that Singletary had with V. Davis. They're gone under Harbaugh.

A lot of people want to compare us to the Steelers and the Ravens. Playing tough (Baltimore Ravens) is different than playing dirty. I think there are a few players that play dirty on the Steelers, but they also have superstars Troy P that maintain a clean image with tough guy play. Our superstar doesn't do that for us, he IS the dirty player on our D. I think people look at Pitts D as Troy's D, and Baltimore's D as Ray Lewis' D, and they play relatively clean football, and maintain a fairly clean off the field image. There's no question that the Lions D is Suh's Defense. He's labled dirty and so are the rest of them, and IMO that's clearly at the hands of Schwartz.

I said at the beginning of the season that I think Schwartz may be the guy to get us to the playoffs, but I don't think we'll go further with him. Sure, we've progressed under Schwartz, and there's a possiblity that he could take us further. However, if there's another guy out there better suited to take us all the way, I think we have grab him.

I've never heard of a team firing a coach for the sole purpose of "someone out there's better." I've always seen it as "this guy isn't working, so he's gone and now lets begin the search."

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December 10th, 2011, 5:17 am
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
I dont even feel like this deserves the time to type it but it needs to be said im tired of the (fake lions fans) we are no longer in the millen era let our coach and players play


December 10th, 2011, 5:39 am
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
thegodjr wrote:
I've never heard of a team firing a coach for the sole purpose of "someone out there's better." I've always seen it as "this guy isn't working, so he's gone and now lets begin the search."


That's exactly what the Lions did when they fired Morningwheg in favor of Mariucci.

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December 10th, 2011, 6:12 pm
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
IMO a coach hasnt taken you "as far as he can" until he reaches his peak (in wins) and then plateaus.. for at least 2 seasons. Schwartz is still on the uptick so its ridiculous to even talk about. I dont care if Cowher was available and came out and said hed come work for us for free, wed be retarded to take apart what has been built and try something new while it is still growing and improving. There is no doubt in my mind that a change in coaches like that would have us taking a step back rather than forward for at least a season if not 2.

Now if you are saying you think Schwartz will reach that plateua say this season, and we might be a 2-3 yr playoff team but not making it past 1st/2nd round in that time, and hell never get us further, you are entitled to your opinion, and i will just say i disagree. Also, if you are OK with a step back now because you think the steps forward under a supercoach (say cowher again) would be worth it and far surpass what schwartz is capable of even if it takes a few extra seasons, I can understand that line of reasoning as well, but again i disagree with it.

This conversations is way too soon IMO to even worry about.

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December 10th, 2011, 10:08 pm
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
m2karateman wrote:
thegodjr wrote:
I've never heard of a team firing a coach for the sole purpose of "someone out there's better." I've always seen it as "this guy isn't working, so he's gone and now lets begin the search."


That's exactly what the Lions did when they fired Morningwheg in favor of Mariucci.


That's also what we did when we fired Wayne O. We were a perpetual 8-8, 9-7 team, with a recent playoff apparence. We picked up Bobby Ross to "get us over the hump."


December 12th, 2011, 10:13 am
Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
Last weeks game was yet another joke, IMO. I know they were "during the whistle" calls, but IMO Gosder should have been taken out briefly to try to get him to focus. He had a false start and another penalty shortly there after. I'm not sure if he committed a 3rd or not, but I would like to see some accountability instilled in these guys.

For Schwartz to argue the refs roughing the passer call on Tulloch was just ridiculous, IMO. It is that mentality that perpetuates the garbage. It was an "after the play" call, even if it was not an after the whistle call, and IMO he should have been sat a series. Instead Schwartz argues with the refs over the call, enforces Tulloch's behaviour, and sends a message to the team that they can do it again. What's worse is, that play, if I'm not mistaken, knocked Ponder out of the game, and brought in Webb, whom we were CLEARLY not prepared to play against. What a joke.


December 12th, 2011, 10:17 am
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
thegodjr wrote:
I've never heard of a team firing a coach for the sole purpose of "someone out there's better." I've always seen it as "this guy isn't working, so he's gone and now lets begin the search."


That's exactly what the Lions did when they fired Morningwheg in favor of Mariucci.


That's also what we did when we fired Wayne O. We were a perpetual 8-8, 9-7 team, with a recent playoff apparence. We picked up Bobby Ross to "get us over the hump."


We know how well that worked out.

In other news, first non-losing season since 2000. HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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December 12th, 2011, 10:18 am
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
thegodjr wrote:
I've never heard of a team firing a coach for the sole purpose of "someone out there's better." I've always seen it as "this guy isn't working, so he's gone and now lets begin the search."


That's exactly what the Lions did when they fired Morningwheg in favor of Mariucci.


That's also what we did when we fired Wayne O. We were a perpetual 8-8, 9-7 team, with a recent playoff apparence. We picked up Bobby Ross to "get us over the hump."


Yep. I was stunned at how quick people forgot about the 12-4 season that gave us our only playoff victory in the last 50+ years. I am also shocked that Fontes never got another job anywhere.


December 12th, 2011, 12:14 pm
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
I'm not shocked about Fontes. IMO he never really seemed to have the drive to win a SB. He had a Miami attitude in an intense environment. He was a lackadaisical attitude the majority of the time, and he came off as crass in many situations that he should have been much more upset about. He was a "players coach" that did just enough to keep his job, and he didn't really push the talent given to him. If he would have gotten another job I think it would have been a John Keuster situation (stepping stone kind of guy to get a team out of the basement).


December 12th, 2011, 12:37 pm
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Last weeks game was yet another joke, IMO. I know they were "during the whistle" calls, but IMO Gosder should have been taken out briefly to try to get him to focus. He had a false start and another penalty shortly there after. I'm not sure if he committed a 3rd or not, but I would like to see some accountability instilled in these guys.

For Schwartz to argue the refs roughing the passer call on Tulloch was just ridiculous, IMO. It is that mentality that perpetuates the garbage. It was an "after the play" call, even if it was not an after the whistle call, and IMO he should have been sat a series. Instead Schwartz argues with the refs over the call, enforces Tulloch's behaviour, and sends a message to the team that they can do it again. What's worse is, that play, if I'm not mistaken, knocked Ponder out of the game, and brought in Webb, whom we were CLEARLY not prepared to play against. What a joke.


Tell me what was wrong on the Tulloch penalty? He threw an interception, thus he isn't a QB anymore, he's a defender and able to be blocked and hit. The Fox Broadcaster tried to paint it like he was hit in the back, but he wasn't. That was a completely legal hit. The refs were just looking for an excuse to throw the flag. Schwartz had every right to be upset about that call. That call and the personal foul in the NE/Washington game were complete jokes of calls. The refs need to start being accountable for knowing their rules and having some consistency.


December 12th, 2011, 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
This entire thread is ridiculous. Especially if they make the playoffs this year. If they beat Oakland and SD and make the playoffs, yet still have bad penalties etc, should he be "re-evaluated"? Hell no. I don't think there's any reason for that. Maybe we don't win the way us fans would like, but we're winning. That's all that matters to me.

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December 12th, 2011, 1:24 pm
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
njroar wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Last weeks game was yet another joke, IMO. I know they were "during the whistle" calls, but IMO Gosder should have been taken out briefly to try to get him to focus. He had a false start and another penalty shortly there after. I'm not sure if he committed a 3rd or not, but I would like to see some accountability instilled in these guys.

For Schwartz to argue the refs roughing the passer call on Tulloch was just ridiculous, IMO. It is that mentality that perpetuates the garbage. It was an "after the play" call, even if it was not an after the whistle call, and IMO he should have been sat a series. Instead Schwartz argues with the refs over the call, enforces Tulloch's behaviour, and sends a message to the team that they can do it again. What's worse is, that play, if I'm not mistaken, knocked Ponder out of the game, and brought in Webb, whom we were CLEARLY not prepared to play against. What a joke.


Tell me what was wrong on the Tulloch penalty? He threw an interception, thus he isn't a QB anymore, he's a defender and able to be blocked and hit. The Fox Broadcaster tried to paint it like he was hit in the back, but he wasn't. That was a completely legal hit. The refs were just looking for an excuse to throw the flag. Schwartz had every right to be upset about that call. That call and the personal foul in the NE/Washington game were complete jokes of calls. The refs need to start being accountable for knowing their rules and having some consistency.



The Qb was an "defenseless player" that was not making an attempt in any way to go after the ball. The guy with the ball was well on his way to going out of bounds on his own, a path he chose right after intercepting the ball. This is no different than when Warren Sapp nailed that guy just because he could. It was a proper flag and it almost cost us the game (and probably would have cost us the game had that face mask not been called on that final play).

People here like to whine and cry about the way the refs call the games, but we're going to get those flags as long as we keep acting like cheap shot artists.


December 12th, 2011, 1:28 pm
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Post Re: Should Schwartz be Let Go?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
njroar wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Last weeks game was yet another joke, IMO. I know they were "during the whistle" calls, but IMO Gosder should have been taken out briefly to try to get him to focus. He had a false start and another penalty shortly there after. I'm not sure if he committed a 3rd or not, but I would like to see some accountability instilled in these guys.

For Schwartz to argue the refs roughing the passer call on Tulloch was just ridiculous, IMO. It is that mentality that perpetuates the garbage. It was an "after the play" call, even if it was not an after the whistle call, and IMO he should have been sat a series. Instead Schwartz argues with the refs over the call, enforces Tulloch's behaviour, and sends a message to the team that they can do it again. What's worse is, that play, if I'm not mistaken, knocked Ponder out of the game, and brought in Webb, whom we were CLEARLY not prepared to play against. What a joke.


Tell me what was wrong on the Tulloch penalty? He threw an interception, thus he isn't a QB anymore, he's a defender and able to be blocked and hit. The Fox Broadcaster tried to paint it like he was hit in the back, but he wasn't. That was a completely legal hit. The refs were just looking for an excuse to throw the flag. Schwartz had every right to be upset about that call. That call and the personal foul in the NE/Washington game were complete jokes of calls. The refs need to start being accountable for knowing their rules and having some consistency.



The Qb was an "defenseless player" that was not making an attempt in any way to go after the ball. The guy with the ball was well on his way to going out of bounds on his own, a path he chose right after intercepting the ball. This is no different than when Warren Sapp nailed that guy just because he could. It was a proper flag and it almost cost us the game (and probably would have cost us the game had that face mask not been called on that final play).

People here like to whine and cry about the way the refs call the games, but we're going to get those flags as long as we keep acting like cheap shot artists.

Agree with you that the flag was correct, although for different reasons.

The defensless player rule wasn't the one that applied - yes, he was a defenseless player but the contact wasn't of the type that is prohibited by that rule (helemt to helmet, or top of helmet to anywhere).

The Passer out of the Play rule was the one that applied, which says that you musn't unnecessarily contact the QB once the ball has left his hand "until the passer assumes a distinctly defensive position". I think it's tough to argue that Ponder was in that position.


December 12th, 2011, 1:39 pm
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