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steve spagnolia
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Author:  allenslions [ January 8th, 2012, 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  steve spagnolia

i think the lions should let gunny retire and hire spags .as much as i love gunny spags 4-3 scheme is just a better fit for us and better suited at stopping the run.spags is also more prone to call blitzes and i would like to see durant and tulloch used more like this.they were both good blitzers with there former teams.

Author:  thegodjr [ January 8th, 2012, 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

yeah... too bad this is Schwartz's defense

I'm tired of hearing about firing our coordinators. The only thing that would accomplish is to set our team back a few years. Fairweather fans overreacting at its finest

Author:  aManNamedSuh [ January 8th, 2012, 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

thegodjr wrote:
yeah... too bad this is Schwartz's defense

I'm tired of hearing about firing our coordinators. The only thing that would accomplish is to set our team back a few years. Fairweather fans overreacting at its finest


I was going to say, wasn't the big thing when Gunny was hired was that he liked to blitz and blitz often.

Author:  The Legend [ January 8th, 2012, 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

i disagree, the LBs we have are not good blitzers and when we blitzed we either didnt generate any additional pressure or got burned. i think our dl didnt get many hold calls bc of "the dirty reputation" but the play declined when kvb's snaps increased and lo jack and young got hurt. we might think about grabbing a DE especially if melvin ingram is going to be available around pick 20 it would be a short trade up to grab him or possibly we could get someone to replace Levy; Burfict might be available around there as well and might instantly make our worst LB slot our best. janorris jenkins the top corner available at that area of the draft has too many character, drug issues and I wouldnt consider him.

Author:  Killwill25 [ January 8th, 2012, 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

Gun isn't the one missing tackles in the backfield

Author:  allenslions [ January 8th, 2012, 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

wow.really thats the responces i get.first tulloch and durant were both very good blitzers for there former teams and used properly.and we would be starting over from scratch.wha what .were talking a minor technique changes not wholesale philosophy changes .were not talking a 3-4 .and no gunny doesnt miss tackles but he wont stray from that 2 deep zone either will he.

Author:  thelomasbrowns [ January 8th, 2012, 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

You get pressure from the front 4 and you have an extra guy in coverage. That's the system and it ain't gonna change. If anything, we have to be sure that were not overly aggressive on the line--works great against the pass but as we saw this year, it's a liability against the run.

Author:  kdsberman [ January 8th, 2012, 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

allenslions wrote:
i think the lions should let gunny retire and hire spags .as much as i love gunny spags 4-3 scheme is just a better fit for us and better suited at stopping the run.spags is also more prone to call blitzes and i would like to see durant and tulloch used more like this.they were both good blitzers with there former teams.


I would absolutely love Spags as a D-coordinator, but am also fine with Gunther remaining as long as SOMETHING happens to improve this atrocious defense.

Whether linebackers are part of the problem or not, I still would love to have Vontaze Burfict. I think he would be an instant upgrade to the linebacker position and he can blitz very well from what I've seen.

Author:  allenslions [ January 8th, 2012, 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

hey vontaze is a great player there is no question about that.but drafting him ignores the real problem area and thats at safety an cornerback.now a guy like mark barron would help this defence out alot more the vontaze because of two things.
1-his ability to come up and stop the run is second to none and his coverage ability is far supiorior to delmas against tightends an backs.
2.it would allow delmas to do what he does best play the deep middle and cover the slot on 3rd downs.by drafting barron your also getting more out of delmas.
and as for shwartz not willing to adapt his defensive scheme at all.well lets hope he isnt that ego driven.because his scheme will never be good against the run no matter what personal he has.even when he was with the titans they would only lineup in the wide9 technique on passing downs.

Author:  The Legend [ January 9th, 2012, 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

Quote:
hey vontaze is a great player there is no question about that.but drafting him ignores the real problem area and thats at safety an cornerback.now a guy like mark barron would help this defence out alot more the vontaze because of two things.
1-his ability to come up and stop the run is second to none and his coverage ability is far supiorior to delmas against tightends an backs.
2.it would allow delmas to do what he does best play the deep middle and cover the slot on 3rd downs.by drafting barron your also getting more out of delmas.
and as for shwartz not willing to adapt his defensive scheme at all.well lets hope he isnt that ego driven.because his scheme will never be good against the run no matter what personal he has.even when he was with the titans they would only lineup in the wide9 technique on passing downs


barron is an ok player but he isnt ed reed or polamalu. burfict is an exceptional talent and should be a bigger upgrade over Levy then Barron would be over spievey.

pt 1 - he s a solid player but lets not forget the entire Bama defense is full of dominant players. things might not be quite the same in the pro s when some of his teammates arent so clearly winning battles. Barron doesnt seem to be an exceptional athlete so you dont know how well the rest will translate.

pt 2 - delmas cover the slot on 3rd downs? Thats not what the Lions did this year, eric wright covered the slot receiver and delmas continued to take a deep zone

i would hope nobody in their right mind would take barron over burfict or melvin ingram. maybe a round 2 consideration. i think lester the other bama safety could end up w a better pro career than barron.

Author:  The Legend [ January 9th, 2012, 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

Quote:
wow.really thats the responces i get.first tulloch and durant were both very good blitzers for there former teams and used properly


how are u assessing that they were good blitzers for their previous teams? it certainly doesnt show in any statistical measure. Durant had 2 sacks in 4 seasons and averaged 5 tackles for loss per season, this year he had a sack and 6 tackles for loss. tulloch had 4.5 sacks in 5 seasons w 3 tackles for loss per season, this year he set a career high with 3 sacks and tied his career high with 5 tackles for loss.

i continue to disagree with your assessment that Tulloch and Durant were not used properly. your only explanation seems to be "wow" I dont think that they should have been blitzed any more or less than how cunningham used them this year. i think tulloch is decent when blitzing but both him and durant are better as read and react players.

.
Quote:
and we would be starting over from scratch.wha what .were talking a minor technique changes not wholesale philosophy changes .were not talking a 3-4 .and no gunny doesnt miss tackles but he wont stray from that 2 deep zone either will he


you dont think spags would use any 2 deep zone? im not opposed to spagnuola being the d coordinator but Cunningham is the more experienced, more passionate coach and spags might always be looking for that next head coaching gig if he were to have success. It sounds like your argument for grabbing Spags is because he would blitz more which to me didnt seem to work against GB/NOx2, doesnt fit our personnel, and would be a disagreement with our head coach's philosophy. remember cunningham had a blitz happy personality in his previous stops. anyway, he s probably heading back to Philly.

Author:  allenslions [ January 9th, 2012, 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

no the reason i want spags is to bring a more traditional 4-3 defence and not play yes man to shwartz.the wide9 as a base defence desnt work against the run.it puts to much pressure on the linebackers.with the wide9 our tackles instead of taking on interior lineman allowing our backer to attack the ball carrier.they take themselves out of the play allowing guards to jump our backers giving the running back huge lanes to run thru.cause no sane scout would ever blame our linebackers for the bad run defence and i know because as other board members will tell you i am a pro scout.and isnt it funny that tulloch and durrant had major decreases in there tackle numbers and levy who wowed everyone his rookiee year now appears to have taken a big step back.oh yeah his rookie season the hadnt moved to the wide9 as there fulltime base yet.as for the prospects i,ll leave that to the draft forum.and if you want to come over there and bump heads with a real scout. bring it

Author:  WarEr4Christ [ January 9th, 2012, 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

Just a little food for thought, and some questions to boot.

how good does a defense need to be when an offense scores so quickly? If we had a solid run game, more time is taken off the clock, their defense is worn down, and we still dominate from two facets instead of one really good one.

Is our defense on the field more, because Staff and company can really move the offense well? I'm not saying our defense is gassed, but they definitely weren't as dominant as I thought. I think with proper players in key positions we could be much better, but also having a run game would help too.

I'm not as football literate as some so I may be talking out of the side of my head, but it just seems that both sides of the ball should compliment each other.

If you look at what NO did against us on 4th down, they kept our offense off the field by moving the chains. This allowed them to score, and wore down our defense. If we had the same option, we could do some things better on our own defense, I'd think.

Author:  UK Lion [ January 9th, 2012, 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

Fair points WarER but it's not like we were stopping their offense when our D was fresh either (outside of the two fumbles).

I think, though, that in all this worrying about our defensive performance on Saturday we should be asking the question: who has stopped the Saints offense at home this season? Excluding the game against the Lions, the Saints have scored an average of 45.57 points per game at home this season. Against playoff teams (again, excluding the Lions) whether home or away the Saints averaged 38.8 points a game.

Yes, we didn't force them to punt once - but we had 2 takeaways (one of which should have been returned for a TD were it not for the refs), on another day could have had 3 more, and should have stopped one drive twice were it not for two terrible spots (one gifting them a non-existant yard, the other giving Brees forward progress even though his backward move was entirely voluntary). We were also playing against arguably the best offense in the NFL at home.

Our D could definitely improve, but I'm not for calling for Gun's head yet.

Author:  WarEr4Christ [ January 9th, 2012, 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steve spagnolia

The picture in my head actually has pretty decent example from College football several years ago.

John Navarre was the U of M qb and Michigan had a pretty stout team that was blowing people up on both sides of the ball. They were heading into the game against Oregon (the Ducks) Everyone was talking about how strong the Wolverines were, and how this was going to be a big challenge for Oregon.

What happened? Oregon came out running and throwing and chewed up clock and scored a lot of points. Michigan got cold (sat on the shaded side of the field) and when they did get the ball it took forever for them to ramp up. So in the mean time they had 3 and outs and Oregon had touchdowns. Why? Because their offense ate clock, and scored points. Their defense didn't get exposed to the mighty Michigan Offense operating on full cylnders because they had to warm up again. The 2nd half proved different, but in the end, Oregon smacked Michigan in the mouth.

If Detroit had a solid running game, NO can't score points if their O is on the bench. Same with us, or Defense was already suspect in key areas, but was disected because, we couldn't tackle, we couldn't get pressure, we couldn't stop the run. As the game went on, this got worse. But if our Offense could have kept Brees on the bench for significant amounts of time, we stood a better chance.

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