View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently August 27th, 2014, 4:52 am



Reply to topic  [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next
 How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It? 
Author Message
Afghan Allstar
User avatar

Joined: January 9th, 2006, 1:16 pm
Posts: 564
Location: San Diego, CA
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
modninerfan wrote:
And when we have a lead we play conservative football which explains why Alex Smith has a fraction of the Attempts, Yards, TD's as Stafford.


No offense to you...but that's also because he's a fraction of the QB that Stafford is.


January 11th, 2012, 2:25 am
Profile
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3327
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
buell17 wrote:
modninerfan wrote:
And when we have a lead we play conservative football which explains why Alex Smith has a fraction of the Attempts, Yards, TD's as Stafford.


No offense to you...but that's also because he's a fraction of the QB that Stafford is.



Very true. Smith would get buried if he were asked to do the things Stafford has to do.

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


January 11th, 2012, 9:10 am
Profile
1st Round Pick
User avatar

Joined: May 8th, 2010, 4:25 pm
Posts: 1292
Location: Cloudy Town, Minnesota. 763.18 miles from Ford Field
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
kdsberman wrote:
buell17 wrote:
modninerfan wrote:
And when we have a lead we play conservative football which explains why Alex Smith has a fraction of the Attempts, Yards, TD's as Stafford.


No offense to you...but that's also because he's a fraction of the QB that Stafford is.



Very true. Smith would get buried if he were asked to do the things Stafford has to do.


So true, but I am not taking anything away from Smith though.

_________________
Image

Follow me on Twitter: @W2G4U


January 11th, 2012, 1:20 pm
Profile WWW
Pop Warner Rookie
User avatar

Joined: October 12th, 2011, 6:52 pm
Posts: 104
Location: Modesto, CA
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
Lions2SB2 wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
buell17 wrote:
modninerfan wrote:
And when we have a lead we play conservative football which explains why Alex Smith has a fraction of the Attempts, Yards, TD's as Stafford.


No offense to you...but that's also because he's a fraction of the QB that Stafford is.



Very true. Smith would get buried if he were asked to do the things Stafford has to do.


So true, but I am not taking anything away from Smith though.


He is a fraction of the QB... if harbaugh asked smith to do what stafford was doing your still only looking at a 20-25 TD / 15-20 INT Season. But I think if Schwartz balances the offense it should help Stafford out immensely. He'd probably only throw for around 4000 yards and about 29-33 TD's a year (still incredible) but the turnovers would be minimal compared to this year. With an improved Offense it should hypothetically improve your D, it would then help make the opponent more 1 dimensional allowing KVB, Avril, Suh and co. to rush the passer without getting gashed by running backs like the Gore did. When I look at the D, I see a lot of really talented players... just because Saints dropped 40+ doesnt mean its broken lol.

I'll show another example so you guys dont think I only watch the niners lol, a great example of how this works is watching the Broncos and Tim Tebow. The pundits would say, its not Tebow its the Defense they're playing lights out. Well why are they all of a sudden playing lights out? look at the turnovers committed, when you guys dropped 40+ on them Tebow turned it over 2 times(3 fumbles 1 INT). Same story when they played BUF... generally when tebow keeps the turnovers to 0 his D will dominate. Now, if the broncos could move the ball like the Lions we're talking 11+ wins easy for them.

The Lions are one of those teams that could be 7-9 just as easily as being 13-3 because of turnovers...

_________________
“Jim's a dynamic man with incredible determination, willpower and energy. He's the ultimate in a driven person who has high expectations. The people around him respond. He's on the cutting edge with an outstanding football mind.” - Bill Walsh

Image


January 11th, 2012, 2:37 pm
Profile WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9850
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
With all due respect, turnovers weren't the problem for the Lions....on offense or defense. The problems were third down conversions on both sides of the ball. Teams were able to extend drives on the defense, particularly Green Bay and New Orleans in the final two games. On offense, it was the inability to convert short third downs late in the game AND burning time off the clock by using the running game. Mikel LeShoure, according to Schwartz, was drafted with the purpose of helping in that regard. It was a good plan, but the problem was that A) he got hurt, B) the offensive line doesn't get enough push in that predictable of a situation, and C) Linehan's plays aren't all that great so as to help the running game.

The Lions have to be able to convert more third downs, particularly in short yardage situations. But likewise, receivers need to hold onto the damn ball better in those situations as well. Pettigrew, Burleson, even CJ....I can recall several third down drops by them, and others, through the season. That simply can't happen at the rate it did.

I agree that improving the LB corps needs to happen as well, particularly on the weakside. Levy was a disaster. He should be relegated to backup for all three positions, and get an honest-to-God weakside player. Doug Hogue may be that guy, but we'll see. If the coaching staff thinks he is, then re-evaluate the middle spot, because Tulloch didn't impress. He was nothing more than a slightly improved version of Paris Lennon. Moreso, the biggest area of improvement needed is at safety. Spievey and Delmas started out the season OK, but did a backslide throughout the year. Somebody, ANYBODY, needs to pull Delmas aside and show him how to use his arms in tackling. Take him to a Judo or Jujitsu class, ask him to carry beer barrels in the off-season, tell him to lift the offensive linemen and carry them from one weight station to another.....whatever it takes, he needs to learn to use his arms to wrap up the ball carrier. I appreciate his life-like imitation of a pinball, but I'd rather not see it on the field of play. As for Spievey......he needs to be a backup, I think. Just hasn't got instincts, and his coverage skills are plain bad. I don't know how he got through Iowa as a corner, but as an NFL safety he couldn't cover a blade of grass if he were a blanket.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


January 11th, 2012, 3:00 pm
Profile
1st Round Pick
User avatar

Joined: May 8th, 2010, 4:25 pm
Posts: 1292
Location: Cloudy Town, Minnesota. 763.18 miles from Ford Field
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
modninerfan wrote:
Lions2SB2 wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
buell17 wrote:
modninerfan wrote:
And when we have a lead we play conservative football which explains why Alex Smith has a fraction of the Attempts, Yards, TD's as Stafford.


No offense to you...but that's also because he's a fraction of the QB that Stafford is.



Very true. Smith would get buried if he were asked to do the things Stafford has to do.


So true, but I am not taking anything away from Smith though.


He is a fraction of the QB... if harbaugh asked smith to do what stafford was doing your still only looking at a 20-25 TD / 15-20 INT Season. But I think if Schwartz balances the offense it should help Stafford out immensely. He'd probably only throw for around 4000 yards and about 29-33 TD's a year (still incredible) but the turnovers would be minimal compared to this year. With an improved Offense it should hypothetically improve your D, it would then help make the opponent more 1 dimensional allowing KVB, Avril, Suh and co. to rush the passer without getting gashed by running backs like the Gore did. When I look at the D, I see a lot of really talented players... just because Saints dropped 40+ doesnt mean its broken lol.

I'll show another example so you guys dont think I only watch the niners lol, a great example of how this works is watching the Broncos and Tim Tebow. The pundits would say, its not Tebow its the Defense they're playing lights out. Well why are they all of a sudden playing lights out? look at the turnovers committed, when you guys dropped 40+ on them Tebow turned it over 2 times(3 fumbles 1 INT). Same story when they played BUF... generally when tebow keeps the turnovers to 0 his D will dominate. Now, if the broncos could move the ball like the Lions we're talking 11+ wins easy for them.

The Lions are one of those teams that could be 7-9 just as easily as being 13-3 because of turnovers...


Well obviously turnovers are big. If your QB keeps turning over the ball it will be extremely hard on your defense.

m2karateman wrote:
With all due respect, turnovers weren't the problem for the Lions....on offense or defense. The problems were third down conversions on both sides of the ball. Teams were able to extend drives on the defense, particularly Green Bay and New Orleans in the final two games. On offense, it was the inability to convert short third downs late in the game AND burning time off the clock by using the running game. Mikel LeShoure, according to Schwartz, was drafted with the purpose of helping in that regard. It was a good plan, but the problem was that A) he got hurt, B) the offensive line doesn't get enough push in that predictable of a situation, and C) Linehan's plays aren't all that great so as to help the running game.

The Lions have to be able to convert more third downs, particularly in short yardage situations. But likewise, receivers need to hold onto the damn ball better in those situations as well. Pettigrew, Burleson, even CJ....I can recall several third down drops by them, and others, through the season. That simply can't happen at the rate it did.


This. The Lions sucked at stopping the Saints on 3rd down and they weren't much better at picking up the first down on 3rd down.

_________________
Image

Follow me on Twitter: @W2G4U


January 11th, 2012, 3:14 pm
Profile WWW
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3327
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
m2karateman wrote:
With all due respect, turnovers weren't the problem for the Lions....on offense or defense. The problems were third down conversions on both sides of the ball. Teams were able to extend drives on the defense, particularly Green Bay and New Orleans in the final two games. On offense, it was the inability to convert short third downs late in the game AND burning time off the clock by using the running game.



This

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


January 11th, 2012, 4:44 pm
Profile
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
It's our offense, not our D that let us down in Cincy. If we would have taken advantage of those two turnovers, it would have been a different game. After the 2nd turnover and the subsequent 3 and out, NO marched right down the field, effortlessly, and scored. Our D was tired, dejected, and out of gas/emotion. Our offense never matched NOs intensity after that, failed to answer, and our D stayed in the dumps.

Fix the damn OL and this will be a MUCH better team.


January 11th, 2012, 5:04 pm
Pop Warner Rookie
User avatar

Joined: October 12th, 2011, 6:52 pm
Posts: 104
Location: Modesto, CA
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
I completely forgot you guys drafted Leshoure... and regarding the 3rd down conversions, thats something I didnt notice, and definitely not something I would have assumed as being a problem considering the yardage totals you guys put up. But then again I've been only able to catch a handful of the games, Niners/Raiders/Saints etc... not stopping third down conversions could be a sign of a tired defense as well... which a solid running game with some upgrades on defense could fix.

_________________
“Jim's a dynamic man with incredible determination, willpower and energy. He's the ultimate in a driven person who has high expectations. The people around him respond. He's on the cutting edge with an outstanding football mind.” - Bill Walsh

Image


January 11th, 2012, 5:39 pm
Profile WWW
League MVP

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
Posts: 3562
Location: WSU
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
Quote:
I agree that improving the LB corps needs to happen as well, particularly on the weakside. Levy was a disaster. He should be relegated to backup for all three positions, and get an honest-to-God weakside player. Doug Hogue may be that guy, but we'll see. If the coaching staff thinks he is, then re-evaluate the middle spot, because Tulloch didn't impress. He was nothing more than a slightly improved version of Paris Lennon. Moreso, the biggest area of improvement needed is at safety. Spievey and Delmas started out the season OK, but did a backslide throughout the year. Somebody, ANYBODY, needs to pull Delmas aside and show him how to use his arms in tackling. Take him to a Judo or Jujitsu class, ask him to carry beer barrels in the off-season, tell him to lift the offensive linemen and carry them from one weight station to another.....whatever it takes, he needs to learn to use his arms to wrap up the ball carrier. I appreciate his life-like imitation of a pinball, but I'd rather not see it on the field of play. As for Spievey......he needs to be a backup, I think. Just hasn't got instincts, and his coverage skills are plain bad. I don't know how he got through Iowa as a corner, but as an NFL safety he couldn't cover a blade of grass if he were a blanket.


agree w most of the post, not the stuff on delmas. huge dropoff on secondary play when delmas went out. chris harris more to blame than spievey. spievey still very inconsistent maybe should be a backup but has a shot to stay as a starter. also, the lions D plays right, left positions, not strong/weak - doesnt matter if its DL/LB/CB


January 11th, 2012, 6:44 pm
Profile
Baton Girl
User avatar

Joined: December 20th, 2011, 3:56 pm
Posts: 12
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
It's our offense, not our D that let us down in Cincy. If we would have taken advantage of those two turnovers, it would have been a different game. After the 2nd turnover and the subsequent 3 and out, NO marched right down the field, effortlessly, and scored. Our D was tired, dejected, and out of gas/emotion. Our offense never matched NOs intensity after that, failed to answer, and our D stayed in the dumps.

Fix the damn OL and this will be a MUCH better team.


So we can score 50 points to win???????? Have you thought about the damn DB's??????


January 11th, 2012, 9:00 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2631
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
Quote:
Another fair question to ask is - is it worth spending resources on the defense? Our d is better than the saints d, I don't think many would disagree w that. Their offense has more dimensions to it than ours does. What's the better way to use ur resources? Have a good offense and good defense?

Quote:
I've learned that sometimes the way to fix a defense is through your offense.

Quote:
It's our offense, not our D that let us down in Cincy. If we would have taken advantage of those two turnovers, it would have been a different game. After the 2nd turnover and the subsequent 3 and out, NO marched right down the field, effortlessly, and scored. Our D was tired, dejected, and out of gas/emotion. Our offense never matched NOs intensity after that, failed to answer, and our D stayed in the dumps.

Fix the damn OL and this will be a MUCH better team.


This is cliche' of a cliche'...but seriously, what are you guys smoking?

The offense is fine. I was in NO. That first drive...you have no idea how loud that stadium was, it was like a jackhammer. Stafford marched right down the field and picked apart NO like a knife through hot butter. He didn't even have a RB in the backfield for most of the plays! Then you have the comeback in Oakland, the SD game which was all the Lions O and the Chargers dropping balls..

The Lions have a top 5 offense. How much better does it need to get? You wanna challenge the 07' Patriots, the 99' Rams?

Yes, you can give your D a hand by running an O that controls the clock--but it works the other way, too. If your D can't force one ****ing punt, then your O literally has to play the game in a "we need to score on this down or we're ****ed" mode and then they do stupid stuff like run aggressive plays and throw picks (see Stafford at the end of the NO game, the end of the GB game).

If the Lions D could've forced just one or two punts, or caught one or two of those Bree's picks it would've been a completely different game. The O played nearly flawlessly--that was probably the best performance by the Lions O line in the last 10 years--and then got dumb in the 4Q because they knew they wouldn't get any help from their D.

The risk with the Lions O is that Backus and Raiola get old all of a sudden or their RBs keep getting injured. But Stafford is going to get better next year, his connection with CJ and his other receivers should get better etc.

Just get a D that can force one stop. And "they were gassed in the NO game" isn't an effective counter--they couldn't hold Brees at any point in the game, the beginning or the end.


January 11th, 2012, 9:24 pm
Profile
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3327
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
I completely understand that we have to fix our offensive line. I really do. But can anyone REALLY think that its the offense's fault??? I mean come on. I think our defensive backs are much more to blame than our offensive line. I think other than not being able to run the ball effectively, our O-line has been fairly decent.

I just dont want to look back in a few years and see all the resources we spent on offense and have it be too late. Lets get ourselves another strong defensive player or two and then focus on the O-line. Just my opinion. Im sick and tired of watching our secondary get burned time after time and hear excuses of how its not their fault. When is it gonna be their fault??? I say it is now, so lets fix it. Period.

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


January 11th, 2012, 10:18 pm
Profile
Bubbles the Lion

Joined: January 2nd, 2011, 8:12 pm
Posts: 57
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
Blueskies wrote:
Quote:
Another fair question to ask is - is it worth spending resources on the defense? Our d is better than the saints d, I don't think many would disagree w that. Their offense has more dimensions to it than ours does. What's the better way to use ur resources? Have a good offense and good defense?

Quote:
I've learned that sometimes the way to fix a defense is through your offense.

Quote:
It's our offense, not our D that let us down in Cincy. If we would have taken advantage of those two turnovers, it would have been a different game. After the 2nd turnover and the subsequent 3 and out, NO marched right down the field, effortlessly, and scored. Our D was tired, dejected, and out of gas/emotion. Our offense never matched NOs intensity after that, failed to answer, and our D stayed in the dumps.

Fix the damn OL and this will be a MUCH better team.


This is cliche' of a cliche'...but seriously, what are you guys smoking?

The offense is fine. I was in NO. That first drive...you have no idea how loud that stadium was, it was like a jackhammer. Stafford marched right down the field and picked apart NO like a knife through hot butter. He didn't even have a RB in the backfield for most of the plays! Then you have the comeback in Oakland, the SD game which was all the Lions O and the Chargers dropping balls..

The Lions have a top 5 offense. How much better does it need to get? You wanna challenge the 07' Patriots, the 99' Rams?

Yes, you can give your D a hand by running an O that controls the clock--but it works the other way, too. If your D can't force one ****ing punt, then your O literally has to play the game in a "we need to score on this down or we're ****ed" mode and then they do stupid stuff like run aggressive plays and throw picks (see Stafford at the end of the NO game, the end of the GB game).

If the Lions D could've forced just one or two punts, or caught one or two of those Bree's picks it would've been a completely different game. The O played nearly flawlessly--that was probably the best performance by the Lions O line in the last 10 years--and then got dumb in the 4Q because they knew they wouldn't get any help from their D.

The risk with the Lions O is that Backus and Raiola get old all of a sudden or their RBs keep getting injured. But Stafford is going to get better next year, his connection with CJ and his other receivers should get better etc.

Just get a D that can force one stop. And "they were gassed in the NO game" isn't an effective counter--they couldn't hold Brees at any point in the game, the beginning or the end.



Good post. I just don't see where the upgrade can come from on Offense. Yeah we COULD get better in a few spots along the line, or maybe get some RB, but these are not huge upgrades. The little resources we have this year need to be allocated to the defense. An upgrade at CB and/or LB


January 11th, 2012, 10:31 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2631
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
I don't even think the O line is that bad.

Stafford wasn't touched during the NO game. The Lions don't have a healthy RB that would play for any other team in the NFL (Kevin Smith was literally sitting on his couch).

I don't think the Lions O line is great by any means, but it isn't bad. I think its average, and they played above average towards the end of the season.


January 11th, 2012, 10:35 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.