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 How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It? 
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I just wish that Mayhew would realize that it is our OL not our RBs that is our problem with moving the ball on the ground. Even when Best is healthy and he can occasionally put up 100 yard plus games, we generally don't move the ball well on the ground. To have a good ground game you have to be consistent, and you have to be able to move the ball when you need to. We haven't been able to do that since James Stewart was in our backfield. We absolutely need an OG that can step in and replace Peterman for this season, and hopefully take over for Dom the following year. We need more beef and strength at the C and LG spot for our interior OL to be successful.



Which is why if we we go offense, Peter Konz makes the most sense.

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January 19th, 2012, 6:18 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I just wish that Mayhew would realize that it is our OL not our RBs that is our problem with moving the ball on the ground. Even when Best is healthy and he can occasionally put up 100 yard plus games, we generally don't move the ball well on the ground. To have a good ground game you have to be consistent, and you have to be able to move the ball when you need to. We haven't been able to do that since James Stewart was in our backfield. We absolutely need an OG that can step in and replace Peterman for this season, and hopefully take over for Dom the following year. We need more beef and strength at the C and LG spot for our interior OL to be successful.



Which is why if we we go offense, Peter Konz makes the most sense.


I haven't had much time to analyze the OGs and Cs in this years draft. I use to be all over it, but lately I've been too busy. Konz, or DeCastro are the two guys that I hear the most about, but I don't know much about them.

To be honest I'm pissed off that we didn't draft Alex Mack or Nick Mangold when we had the chance. I wanted us to trade back up to get Mack, or drop down and take Mangold. Either way we would have been better off than giving Raiola a ridiculous extension that over-pays him for his mediocre performance. I haven't heard of a C that got those kind of reviews since. Pouncey was close, but no one has matched Mangold or Mack. Mangold is the one that really bites my rectum. We passed on him for a broke rectum Ernie Sims, whom many one this board LOVED and told me that I was nuts for disliking.

It amazes me how many people tell me I'm batsh!t crazy, and vehemently disagrees with me to the point of name calling and suggesting that I only have my opinion for "attention," or to rile people up, only to have the same opinion 2-3 years later.


January 19th, 2012, 6:38 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
Konz apparently is the only highly ranked C in this years draft. If the Lions take one, my thinking is it won't be till mid-rounds.


January 19th, 2012, 7:09 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
WJB-
Im no scout by any means, but ive watched both, Konz more, and let me tell you they would be an immediate upgrade. I've pretty much forgotten about DeCastro because we have no chance of landing him unless we moved up, but from everything ive seen from Konz he seems to be the real deal. He seems to get push which we NEVER see from our center. Not only can he get initial push, but he seems to have enough quickness to get to the linebackers if need be and set a good block on them too.

I know a lot can happen from now until April 26, but if the Lions pick comes and Konz is on the board, id be very surprised if he isnt the BPA on their board. Or at least lets hope to God that they have an interest in him.

I remember someone posting last year that the Fords are very unhappy with Raiola and were looking to replace him last year, even though that never happened. Lets just hope that was true and they take another swing at it this year with Konz.

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January 19th, 2012, 10:01 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
liontrax wrote:
Konz apparently is the only highly ranked C in this years draft. If the Lions take one, my thinking is it won't be till mid-rounds.


Konz is the only one ranked with a grade inside the top 50. There are a couple fringe centers, like Ben Jones, who would be good second round picks for the Lions. Mike Brewster is another one that may be considered in the second round, but he needs to hit the weight room, big time. Tall guy, but skinny. David Molk is just too small, and reminds me too much of Raiola.

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January 20th, 2012, 10:12 am
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
m2karateman wrote:
liontrax wrote:
Konz apparently is the only highly ranked C in this years draft. If the Lions take one, my thinking is it won't be till mid-rounds.


Konz is the only one ranked with a grade inside the top 50. There are a couple fringe centers, like Ben Jones, who would be good second round picks for the Lions. Mike Brewster is another one that may be considered in the second round, but he needs to hit the weight room, big time. Tall guy, but skinny. David Molk is just too small, and reminds me too much of Raiola.


I agree on Brewster and Molk. Molk seems to always be knicked up. I mean, he hurt himself in the WARMUPS in the Sugar Bowl, and almost cost UofM the game (we fumbled the exchange from C to QB twice before Molk came back). I know both are considered "polished" and they both get a lot of recognition and have won a lot of awards, but I as much time as I haven't spent keeping up on draft picks, I have been to a TON of Michigan games and I pay attention to OSU. IMO both of those guys are NFL "projects."

From the little that I've read of him Konz seems like he could be a good fit. That doesn't mean that I can't still be bent about Nick Mangold though!

My biggest worry is that Mayhew honestly believes that the Rb is the problem with the running game, or that he's hell bent on going defense. We always seem to be on the wrong side of the trends... getting into them just as other teams are getting out of them. I'd rather jump on this offensive bandwagon, fix one side of the ball, and FINALLY after 10 years, have either a GOOD or GREAT offensive line. Our OL has sucked since we let Mike Compton go (I'm not saying that he was great or the cause of our OL being good... I'm just saying that we haven't been good upfront since his departure)... And you can argue that we haven't been "good" upfront since we let Jeff Hartings go.


January 20th, 2012, 11:30 am
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
And you can argue that we haven't been "good" upfront since we let Jeff Hartings go.


Thats right about the time I started falling in love with Lions football. So in other words, since ive been a big fan Ive never seen a good offensive line.

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January 20th, 2012, 9:12 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
m2karateman wrote:
liontrax wrote:
Konz apparently is the only highly ranked C in this years draft. If the Lions take one, my thinking is it won't be till mid-rounds.


Konz is the only one ranked with a grade inside the top 50. There are a couple fringe centers, like Ben Jones, who would be good second round picks for the Lions. Mike Brewster is another one that may be considered in the second round, but he needs to hit the weight room, big time. Tall guy, but skinny. David Molk is just too small, and reminds me too much of Raiola.


I've read some good things on Ben Jones, but the one I think might be worth keeping an eye on is Phillip Blake. Here is a profile I got off WalterFootball.com

Philip Blake, C, Baylor
Height: 6-3. Weight: 320.
Projected 40 Time: 5.58.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
1/9/12: Throughout 2011, Blake was an excellent pass protector for Robert Griffin III, and opened up holes in the ground game for running back Terrance Ganaway. Blake is a good athlete for his size. He has the strength to push tackles aside and surprising quickness to hit blocks on linebackers. For the past two years, Blake has been the starter at center, having begun his collegiate career at tackle. To close out 2011, he had a lot of success going against Washington Huskies defensive tackle Alameda Ta'amu in the Alamo Bowl. The Baylor Bears were able to have a massive game on the ground to the tune of 482 yards. In the NFL, Blake would probably fit best in a power man blocking scheme.

Looking forward to seeing how this years center class shapes up after the All-star games and combine have been completed. Blake is playing in the Senior Bowl I believe.


January 21st, 2012, 12:20 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
If you are drafting a center to replace Raiola the only one that could be an immediate upgrade immediately would be Konz. The others in this draft might be better in 2-3 years but couldnt step in and start right away. All that said, I doubt the Ford's are going to push Mayhew into anything at this point after Mayhew has completed a remarkable 3 year turnaround. I like the idea of Konz jumping in and playing guard for a year maybe two and then becoming Raiola's replacement depending on how Raiola is doing. All that said - Raiola could be part of a good line he s a decent NFL center just not top 5 like Konz might be at some point.


January 21st, 2012, 12:45 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
we should put megatron at safety. he would revolutionize the position. not really, we need him too much on O but thought just popped in my head so i chuvalo'd it

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January 21st, 2012, 5:23 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
m2karateman wrote:
In the last eight games of the season the Lions defense averaged giving up 31 points per game. That sucks, and has nothing whatsover to do with the offense. In previous years I might have agreed that the Lions couldn't sustain drives and the defense was getting tired, but that is simply no longer the case.


Agree with most of what else you posted in this thread, but Couldnt really possibly disagree more in this 1 point. We saw exactly that, an O that couldnt leep the opponents O off the field in multiple games we lost tyhis year where you visbily saw a D that held the opponents offense in the 1st half but died in the 2nd half from being gassed.

Killwill25 wrote:
we should put megatron at safety. he would revolutionize the position. not really, we need him too much on O but thought just popped in my head so i chuvalo'd it


Chuvalo'd It.... Love it.


January 22nd, 2012, 9:45 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
For thos talking about Drafting OC or OC/OG combo players... heres some more to chew on.

2006: Nick Mangold went at 29. We took Sims at 8 and at 40 we Drafted Daniel Bullocks, so we could have traded back or Up to get into position. True Stud.
2007: Ryan Kalil went in late round 2, where we had 3 2nd round picks that year. We chose IAF 1 pick before Carolina took Kalil. He is underrated.
2008: n/a
2009: Alex Mack went at 19. We took Pettigrew at 18. I like Pett and think he is a top 5 (def top 10) TE, but Mack would make a bigger Difffor this team.
2010: Maurkice Pouncey went 18. We had Suh at 2 and Best at 30. No real angle for a good trade here, but another good OC.
2011: Mike Pouncey went 15. We took Fairley at 13. We got mad value based on Fairleys perceived Pro Output, but No Doubt Pouncey (who was considered drafted half a round too high) could have made a positive impact in the place of Peterman. Additionally Stefen Wisniewski & Rodney Hudson were both drafted in the 2nd Round in Between our Picks of Titus Young and Mikel LeShoure (Leshoure who I wanted at 44 and was glad we got, and in hindsight glad we got T Young).

It would be really nice now that we are drafting in the 20s to go after a Stud OC/OG for the future.


January 22nd, 2012, 10:00 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
Watching the playoffs, you realize how much comes down to luck and the great plays or great missteps made by individual players. The good news is, we're in the conversation. We have the talent to get to the playoffs, and hopefully some breaks will come our way when we get there.

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January 23rd, 2012, 12:05 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Watching the playoffs, you realize how much comes down to luck and the great plays or great missteps made by individual players. The good news is, we're in the conversation. We have the talent to get to the playoffs, and hopefully some breaks will come our way when we get there.


I agree with your sentiment, but thats also why we are not a super bowl calibur team yet. we make too many mistakes. If we can clean up the mental stuff...Look out!

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January 23rd, 2012, 12:09 pm
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Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
DJ-B wrote:
For thos talking about Drafting OC or OC/OG combo players... heres some more to chew on.

2006: Nick Mangold went at 29. We took Sims at 8 and at 40 we Drafted Daniel Bullocks, so we could have traded back or Up to get into position. True Stud.
2007: Ryan Kalil went in late round 2, where we had 3 2nd round picks that year. We chose IAF 1 pick before Carolina took Kalil. He is underrated.
2008: n/a
2009: Alex Mack went at 19. We took Pettigrew at 18. I like Pett and think he is a top 5 (def top 10) TE, but Mack would make a bigger Difffor this team.
2010: Maurkice Pouncey went 18. We had Suh at 2 and Best at 30. No real angle for a good trade here, but another good OC.
2011: Mike Pouncey went 15. We took Fairley at 13. We got mad value based on Fairleys perceived Pro Output, but No Doubt Pouncey (who was considered drafted half a round too high) could have made a positive impact in the place of Peterman. Additionally Stefen Wisniewski & Rodney Hudson were both drafted in the 2nd Round in Between our Picks of Titus Young and Mikel LeShoure (Leshoure who I wanted at 44 and was glad we got, and in hindsight glad we got T Young).

It would be really nice now that we are drafting in the 20s to go after a Stud OC/OG for the future.


Ummm....some corrections needed.

1. The Lions took Ernie Sims with the 9th pick, not the 8th pick, in 2006. But your point is valid, they screwed up their first THREE selections that year (Sims, Bullocks, and the infamous Brian Calhoun pick).

2. I don't think Kalil is underrated. He is a Pro Bowler. However, I don't think he gets the recognition due to his being on the Panthers.

3. Pettigrew was taken 20th overall in 2009, and Mack was taken 21st. But again, point taken. However, I wouldn't say Pettigrew was a wasted pick. He was viewed by many as a top 15 prospect, and some had Buffalo taking him 11th overall.


Overall, I agree that the Lions had their opportunities to upgrade either Peterman, Raiola, or both. I would love to see them take steps to do just that in this draft, as well as getting a legitimate heir for Backus. But unless they basically trade away future picks or hit on a sleeper, that won't happen.

And I still maintain the stance that it's not just the offensive line, but a combination of the line, the backs AND especially the offensive system.

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January 23rd, 2012, 1:26 pm
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