View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently October 23rd, 2014, 7:52 am



Reply to topic  [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It? 
Author Message
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3362
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
m2karateman wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
For thos talking about Drafting OC or OC/OG combo players... heres some more to chew on.

2006: Nick Mangold went at 29. We took Sims at 8 and at 40 we Drafted Daniel Bullocks, so we could have traded back or Up to get into position. True Stud.
2007: Ryan Kalil went in late round 2, where we had 3 2nd round picks that year. We chose IAF 1 pick before Carolina took Kalil. He is underrated.
2008: n/a
2009: Alex Mack went at 19. We took Pettigrew at 18. I like Pett and think he is a top 5 (def top 10) TE, but Mack would make a bigger Difffor this team.
2010: Maurkice Pouncey went 18. We had Suh at 2 and Best at 30. No real angle for a good trade here, but another good OC.
2011: Mike Pouncey went 15. We took Fairley at 13. We got mad value based on Fairleys perceived Pro Output, but No Doubt Pouncey (who was considered drafted half a round too high) could have made a positive impact in the place of Peterman. Additionally Stefen Wisniewski & Rodney Hudson were both drafted in the 2nd Round in Between our Picks of Titus Young and Mikel LeShoure (Leshoure who I wanted at 44 and was glad we got, and in hindsight glad we got T Young).

It would be really nice now that we are drafting in the 20s to go after a Stud OC/OG for the future.


Ummm....some corrections needed.

1. The Lions took Ernie Sims with the 9th pick, not the 8th pick, in 2006. But your point is valid, they screwed up their first THREE selections that year (Sims, Bullocks, and the infamous Brian Calhoun pick).

2. I don't think Kalil is underrated. He is a Pro Bowler. However, I don't think he gets the recognition due to his being on the Panthers.

3. Pettigrew was taken 20th overall in 2009, and Mack was taken 21st. But again, point taken. However, I wouldn't say Pettigrew was a wasted pick. He was viewed by many as a top 15 prospect, and some had Buffalo taking him 11th overall.


Overall, I agree that the Lions had their opportunities to upgrade either Peterman, Raiola, or both. I would love to see them take steps to do just that in this draft, as well as getting a legitimate heir for Backus. But unless they basically trade away future picks or hit on a sleeper, that won't happen.

And I still maintain the stance that it's not just the offensive line, but a combination of the line, the backs AND especially the offensive system.



You had to bring that name up, didnt you! :angry: (freakin Millen)

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


January 23rd, 2012, 7:52 pm
Profile
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3362
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
Killwill25 wrote:
Lions2SB2 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
IMO Spivey is better than Delmas. I can't stand Delmas. IMO he is Ernie Sims part 2, at a more important position.


You know the more I think about it, he is.

I don't think so. We had to move him to the other side so Spievey could learn the easier position. When Delmas was where Spievey is, he was a stud. Move Delmas back to his original spot and put a proven S where he used to be(proven enough so Delmas does'nt have to move back there) and he will have a career year. Delmas is a gambler so let him gamble

And BTW Why does Sims get so much hate for always being healthy and being our best defender while he was here? No one ever rips on Paris Lenon or Chuck Darby. Dewayne White was not even an Arena league talent.



Wait...Delmas played FS his rookie year and is still listed as the FS if im not mistaken. Definetely correct me if im wrong.

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


January 23rd, 2012, 9:54 pm
Profile
Fired Head Coach (0-16 record)
User avatar

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pm
Posts: 2283
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
m2karateman wrote:
Ummm....some corrections needed.

1. The Lions took Ernie Sims with the 9th pick, not the 8th pick, in 2006. But your point is valid, they screwed up their first THREE selections that year (Sims, Bullocks, and the infamous Brian Calhoun pick).

2. I don't think Kalil is underrated. He is a Pro Bowler. However, I don't think he gets the recognition due to his being on the Panthers.

3. Pettigrew was taken 20th overall in 2009, and Mack was taken 21st. But again, point taken. However, I wouldn't say Pettigrew was a wasted pick. He was viewed by many as a top 15 prospect, and some had Buffalo taking him 11th overall.


Overall, I agree that the Lions had their opportunities to upgrade either Peterman, Raiola, or both. I would love to see them take steps to do just that in this draft, as well as getting a legitimate heir for Backus. But unless they basically trade away future picks or hit on a sleeper, that won't happen.

And I still maintain the stance that it's not just the offensive line, but a combination of the line, the backs AND especially the offensive system.


Wow. Guess thats what I get for relying on ESPNs past year info. I appreciate the corrects and will add these notes.

1) 2 other 2nd Rd picks from the other surrounding years included Drew Stanton (not terrible player but drafted a full round too high cuz he plays QB like a LB) and Gerald Alexander. :/

2) I meant Kalil WAS Underrated & still doesnt get the media recognition that Mangold gets. He was a great value where he was picked and was actually the person I wanted as our 2nd round pick... was Mad we didnt take him.

3) Pett def wasnt a wasted pick. At the time I was suprised he fell, and I rem sitting at that pizza parlor waiting for my wife to finish her massage next door, and I was chanting for Pett. In hindsight Mack would have been a slightly better pick, but Im glad we have Pett.

Agree with your final point about not being able to take care of OC , RG & LT all in 1 draft, esp when RT could be considered a need as well. Also Agree about the problems being a combo of the Talent & System, however I think our Backs are more than capable if the OL talent was there and the System was better.


January 24th, 2012, 11:41 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
League MVP

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
Posts: 3694
Location: WSU
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
Quote:
Wait...Delmas played FS his rookie year and is still listed as the FS if im not mistaken. Definetely correct me if im wrong.


Lions system doesnt differentiate the safety positions in the traditional way, the two safeties are essentially playing the same position


January 25th, 2012, 5:52 pm
Profile
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3362
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
Wait...Delmas played FS his rookie year and is still listed as the FS if im not mistaken. Definetely correct me if im wrong.


Lions system doesnt differentiate the safety positions in the traditional way, the two safeties are essentially playing the same position



Oh ok, then thats where im missing. So Delmas was normally lined over the TE and in run support then?

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


January 25th, 2012, 6:00 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9891
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
kdsberman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
Wait...Delmas played FS his rookie year and is still listed as the FS if im not mistaken. Definetely correct me if im wrong.


Lions system doesnt differentiate the safety positions in the traditional way, the two safeties are essentially playing the same position



Oh ok, then thats where im missing. So Delmas was normally lined over the TE and in run support then?


The current Lions defensive scheme goes with left and right for the safeties and outside linebackers, rather than strong and weak (free). My contention is that the Lions don't have two safeties who can play well as a strong safety (in the box/TE coverage) and free (centerfielder/sure tackler) on their squad. Basically, both Delmas and Spievey are more strong safety than free safety in their skillsets. Delmas is OK in the box, but from a deeper safety position often takes bad angles in pursuit and looks to use the distance to deliver a big hit rather than getting to the ball carrier, establishing his base and wrapping the guy up. Against the likes of Adrian Peterson and Matt Forte, the big hit thing works maybe one in five times. Spievey seems to lack instincts in coverage, and definitely gets lost in deep zone. I think he's better as a man coverage guy against TEs who aren't very athletic. Unfortunately, he will struggle against the likes of a Jimmy Graham or Jermichael Finley. And teams are starting to employ athletic tight ends more and more, so Spievey will struggle all the more. His tackling got worse as the year progressed, even though he tries form tackling more than Delmas. I don't think Spievey is quite strong enough in the upper body. Maybe another year in the weight room will fix that. But his lack of instincts and stiffness in coverage likely can't be coached up.

That is precisely why I've said I'd like to see the Lions take a more traditional approach with their safeties, and get a true centerfielder type free safety and put Delmas into a more traditional strong safety mode. The whole left and right safety thing was tried, with the idea that it would disguise the coverages better. Well, first it would help if the safeties COULD cover....ours don't do that very well.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


January 26th, 2012, 9:04 am
Profile
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3362
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
m2karateman wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
Wait...Delmas played FS his rookie year and is still listed as the FS if im not mistaken. Definetely correct me if im wrong.


Lions system doesnt differentiate the safety positions in the traditional way, the two safeties are essentially playing the same position



Oh ok, then thats where im missing. So Delmas was normally lined over the TE and in run support then?


The current Lions defensive scheme goes with left and right for the safeties and outside linebackers, rather than strong and weak (free). My contention is that the Lions don't have two safeties who can play well as a strong safety (in the box/TE coverage) and free (centerfielder/sure tackler) on their squad. Basically, both Delmas and Spievey are more strong safety than free safety in their skillsets. Delmas is OK in the box, but from a deeper safety position often takes bad angles in pursuit and looks to use the distance to deliver a big hit rather than getting to the ball carrier, establishing his base and wrapping the guy up. Against the likes of Adrian Peterson and Matt Forte, the big hit thing works maybe one in five times. Spievey seems to lack instincts in coverage, and definitely gets lost in deep zone. I think he's better as a man coverage guy against TEs who aren't very athletic. Unfortunately, he will struggle against the likes of a Jimmy Graham or Jermichael Finley. And teams are starting to employ athletic tight ends more and more, so Spievey will struggle all the more. His tackling got worse as the year progressed, even though he tries form tackling more than Delmas. I don't think Spievey is quite strong enough in the upper body. Maybe another year in the weight room will fix that. But his lack of instincts and stiffness in coverage likely can't be coached up.

That is precisely why I've said I'd like to see the Lions take a more traditional approach with their safeties, and get a true centerfielder type free safety and put Delmas into a more traditional strong safety mode. The whole left and right safety thing was tried, with the idea that it would disguise the coverages better. Well, first it would help if the safeties COULD cover....ours don't do that very well.



I see. So in other words, Delmas is, in a sense, playing the FS role, just that you wouldnt quite classify it as that.

So if we were to draft or sign a safety, it should be more of a "FS" type player so we can move Delmas to the more "SS" type role?

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


January 26th, 2012, 2:09 pm
Profile
Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 am
Posts: 2309
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
The Delmas fans are going to likely get all fired up over this but I've never been a fan of him and he has done nothing to change my mind. Answer this question, if he were a FA coming from a different team is he somebody you would want the Lions to sign? My answer is no. The Lions would do themselves a world of good to get two new Ss. I'd be happy if they could come away with Markelle Martin and Harrison Smith, but they both might be 2nd rounders by the time the draft rolls around. Both of them fit the FS/SS mixture that the coaching staff prefers.


January 26th, 2012, 5:34 pm
Profile
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
sweetd20 wrote:
The Delmas fans are going to likely get all fired up over this but I've never been a fan of him and he has done nothing to change my mind. Answer this question, if he were a FA coming from a different team is he somebody you would want the Lions to sign? My answer is no. The Lions would do themselves a world of good to get two new Ss. I'd be happy if they could come away with Markelle Martin and Harrison Smith, but they both might be 2nd rounders by the time the draft rolls around. Both of them fit the FS/SS mixture that the coaching staff prefers.



I agree 100%... I would actually prefer that we upgrade this position through FA, so we're not starting a later round rookie more prone to make mistakes, but I don't care for either of our Ss


January 26th, 2012, 5:45 pm
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3362
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
The Delmas fans are going to likely get all fired up over this but I've never been a fan of him and he has done nothing to change my mind. Answer this question, if he were a FA coming from a different team is he somebody you would want the Lions to sign? My answer is no. The Lions would do themselves a world of good to get two new Ss. I'd be happy if they could come away with Markelle Martin and Harrison Smith, but they both might be 2nd rounders by the time the draft rolls around. Both of them fit the FS/SS mixture that the coaching staff prefers.



I agree 100%... I would actually prefer that we upgrade this position through FA, so we're not starting a later round rookie more prone to make mistakes, but I don't care for either of our Ss



I agree also, and think it was our safety position that did the worst for us.

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


January 26th, 2012, 5:53 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9891
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
kdsberman wrote:
I see. So in other words, Delmas is, in a sense, playing the FS role, just that you wouldnt quite classify it as that.

So if we were to draft or sign a safety, it should be more of a "FS" type player so we can move Delmas to the more "SS" type role?


No, he plays FS when the TE is lined up on the opposite side of the field. He plays SS when the TE is on his side. And if the opposing offense isn't using a TE, or splits them out, then we pray that we're in a dime coverage package and he's playing a deep half zone rather than being man up on someone.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


January 29th, 2012, 10:25 pm
Profile
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3362
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
m2karateman wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
I see. So in other words, Delmas is, in a sense, playing the FS role, just that you wouldnt quite classify it as that.

So if we were to draft or sign a safety, it should be more of a "FS" type player so we can move Delmas to the more "SS" type role?


No, he plays FS when the TE is lined up on the opposite side of the field. He plays SS when the TE is on his side. And if the opposing offense isn't using a TE, or splits them out, then we pray that we're in a dime coverage package and he's playing a deep half zone rather than being man up on someone.


Ahhhh....got ya. Thanks

Just so hard, at least on my TV, to see the safeties pre-snap unless theyre in the box.

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


January 30th, 2012, 9:41 am
Profile
Rookie Player of the Year
User avatar

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Posts: 2310
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
Something to consider:

Quote:
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell cites Lions injury
BY DETROIT NEWS STAFF 0 COMMENTS
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2012 ... 1126/rss14
The NFL thinks Amari Spievey played with a concussion. (Robin Buckson/Detroit News)

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell was featured on CBS' "60 Minutes" on Sunday night. During one segment of the profile, Goodell talks about concussions with NFL vice president of officiating Carl Johnson . It was mentioned that Lions safety Amari Spievey played with a concussion during the playoff game against the Saints. Here's an excerpt:

Reporter Steve Kroft : "Concussions have always been a part of the NFL. This used to be called getting your bell rung, now it's treated as a serious brain injury and doctors, not coaches or players, decide if someone is fit to return to the game — as long as someone catches it."

Johnson: "OK, commissioner, now this game, we had a concussed player that we didn't know about. And this guy didn't tell anybody. It's the man making the tackle on this play. Number 42 Amari Spievey suffered a concussion here and should have gone to the sidelines, but the officials missed it and he decided not to tell anyone about his symptoms so he could stay on the field."

Kroft: "Is that common?"

Goodell: "Unfortunately, it is. Far too common."

_________________
Driver of the Jim Caldwell bandwagon. Climb aboard.


January 30th, 2012, 10:45 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9494
Location: Dallas
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
sweetd20 wrote:
Answer this question, if he were a FA coming from a different team is he somebody you would want the Lions to sign?


Yes, cause we have seen how worse off our safties are without him on the field. When healthy, Delmas would be a major upgrade over anything else we have out there. Hell, even when hurt he is our best safety.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


January 30th, 2012, 12:33 pm
Profile WWW
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3362
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post Re: How Broken is the Defense? How Do You Fix It?
Pablo wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
Answer this question, if he were a FA coming from a different team is he somebody you would want the Lions to sign?


Yes, cause we have seen how worse off our safties are without him on the field. When healthy, Delmas would be a major upgrade over anything else we have out there. Hell, even when hurt he is our best safety.



Thats a good point. Unfortunately, that just goes to show how bad our safeties need upgraded.

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


January 30th, 2012, 4:37 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], jmathers, rao, Touchdown Jesus, Yahoo [Bot] and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.