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 Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks? 
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
TheRealWags wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
Quote:
i hope he injures himself

what horrible thing to say.


Having an attitude that you're "too good" for $30 million dollars for three years of your employment is a horrible attitude to have. It's not horrific to wish horrible things on horrible people.
Actually, yes it is. What ever happened to the Golden Rule?


Does it work for rape?


July 19th, 2012, 3:43 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
Quote:
i hope he injures himself
what horrible thing to say.
Having an attitude that you're "too good" for $30 million dollars for three years of your employment is a horrible attitude to have. It's not horrific to wish horrible things on horrible people.
Actually, yes it is. What ever happened to the Golden Rule?
Does it work for rape?
IMO doesn't matter. I believe that we (the person) needs to take the high road. If others want to wish ill will on someone, so be it, but I cannot in good conscience do that.

I liken it to those who cheer, party, etc when someone like Saddam, Osama, etc are killed. While I can certainly appreciate the sentiment, I find it in rather poor taste as well as inhuman to cheer another humans death / injury.

I could go on, but it would have the potential to derail this thread into other "Off-Topic" discussions. If anyone cares to have that discussion, we certainly can...

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July 19th, 2012, 3:49 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
TheRealWags wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
Quote:
i hope he injures himself
what horrible thing to say.
Having an attitude that you're "too good" for $30 million dollars for three years of your employment is a horrible attitude to have. It's not horrific to wish horrible things on horrible people.
Actually, yes it is. What ever happened to the Golden Rule?
Does it work for rape?
IMO doesn't matter. I believe that we (the person) needs to take the high road. If others want to wish ill will on someone, so be it, but I cannot in good conscience do that.

I liken it to those who cheer, party, etc when someone like Saddam, Osama, etc are killed. While I can certainly appreciate the sentiment, I find it in rather poor taste as well as inhuman to cheer another humans death / injury.

I could go on, but it would have the potential to derail this thread into other "Off-Topic" discussions. If anyone cares to have that discussion, we certainly can...



I think it was derailed when you questioned the morality of the statement. I have no problem with someone cheering the death of someone or wishing ill will on a player. My personal stance is that only the fact that future harm from that person should be celebrated, but that's just me. I'm open to other people feeling the same way without that caveat.

Personally I don't wish ill will on Avril. I don't see the point. If he gets hurt it just hurts the team, period. If someone is playing like crap and the coach continues to play them despite their poor play (someone like Raiola), I have no problem with wishing injury on that person. It's for a cause and the cause is to help the team.

I personally don't care for revenge, but some people find it therapeutic. Who am I to begrudge them?


July 19th, 2012, 3:55 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
$10 million/year is a whole lot of money to have tied up in one player, and he hasn't shown himself to be a Hall of Fame DE yet. I just don't see how they can afford to sign him for what he wants, at least not when we have so much money tied up in other players, especially on the defensive line.

Is there any sort of a way that we could do a sign-and-trade type of deal?


July 19th, 2012, 9:52 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
TheRealWags wrote:
IMO doesn't matter. I believe that we (the person) needs to take the high road. If others want to wish ill will on someone, so be it, but I cannot in good conscience do that.

I liken it to those who cheer, party, etc when someone like Saddam, Osama, etc are killed. While I can certainly appreciate the sentiment, I find it in rather poor taste as well as inhuman to cheer another humans death / injury.

I could go on, but it would have the potential to derail this thread into other "Off-Topic" discussions. If anyone cares to have that discussion, we certainly can...


Wags, I never asked you or anyone else to agree with my statement. So if I want to make that statement and you want to take the high road, that's fine. I just won't be walking down that road with you in this particular circumstance.

I didn't wish him to die, or have a career ending injury. I simply hope that, since he is being such an anus about this, he gets hurt before he signs his tender, such that he doesn't play in 2012 and the Lions don't have to pay him all that money. Then they can release him and have that money to extend other players who will be facing free agency next year. Players that won't spit in the face of the franchise when offered a pretty good deal.

If my hoping for that makes me an a$$hole, then fine, I'm an a$$hole. It's not the worst thing I've been called.

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July 20th, 2012, 9:16 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
i dont know what that makes of you but why dont you want avril to play in 2012? you actually think the lions are better off not paying him what he s owed on the tender and going on without him for 2012? seems kinda silly, even for you


July 21st, 2012, 1:36 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
Growler wrote:
$10 million/year is a whole lot of money to have tied up in one player, and he hasn't shown himself to be a Hall of Fame DE yet. I just don't see how they can afford to sign him for what he wants, at least not when we have so much money tied up in other players, especially on the defensive line.

Is there any sort of a way that we could do a sign-and-trade type of deal?


There are no sign and trades in the NFL. The only outcomes right now are Avril signs his tender and reports to camp, or he doesn't.


July 21st, 2012, 1:49 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
Growler wrote:
$10 million/year is a whole lot of money to have tied up in one player, and he hasn't shown himself to be a Hall of Fame DE yet. I just don't see how they can afford to sign him for what he wants, at least not when we have so much money tied up in other players, especially on the defensive line.

Is there any sort of a way that we could do a sign-and-trade type of deal?



Do we really know what he's been offered? I mean, outside of one reporter.

If it really is $10 million a year, then Avril needs to sign the dang contract. As others have said that much money can set him up for life, no matter what the future holds.


July 22nd, 2012, 7:09 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
The Legend wrote:
i dont know what that makes of you but why dont you want avril to play in 2012? you actually think the lions are better off not paying him what he s owed on the tender and going on without him for 2012? seems kinda silly, even for you


In reality, if he decides to be a camp holdout and then gets hurt prior to signing his tender...then the answer is absolutely yes. Why? Because the Lions would suddenly have $10.6M they could use to sign some players, some good players, that get released from other clubs. Or, they could use that money to extend some other players that will be free agents after the season. Avril is not the end-all-be-all of defensive ends in the NFL. He may be the best on our team (even that is debatable) but football is a TEAM sport, and being able to get some other positions improved may be better for the team. It's not like beyond Avril we have no pass rushers. Quite the contrary, we are pretty well stocked at that position.

Once he decides to put on his big boy pants and sign his tender, then he's officially under contract and the Lions will have to pay him regardless of what happens after that. Until he signs it, they owe him nothing. So if he gets hurt before he inks that deal, the Lions can pull the offer and leave him to wonder aloud why he ever chose to listen to his stupid agent.

Just remember, he had an offer on the table that he could have signed that would have guaranteed him $20M. It wasn't a "discounted" offer, and you described it in another thread. It was a fair and reasonable offer.

Would I like to see Avril play for the Lions in 2012? Yes. I'd have preferred he do it under a long term deal. That won't be the case. However, at this point I want him to sign the tender and show up to camp ready to work. Forget this "fear of injury" BS. He's played for four seasons for far less money without that fear.

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July 22nd, 2012, 8:22 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
m2

do you think avril will make more money by playing on a 1 year tender at 10.6 million and then hitting free agency next season or would he have made more by signing the 3yr/close to 30 deal?


July 22nd, 2012, 11:05 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
The Legend wrote:
m2

do you think avril will make more money by playing on a 1 year tender at 10.6 million and then hitting free agency next season or would he have made more by signing the 3yr/close to 30 deal?


Depends on the season he has. Is there any guarantees he doesn't get hurt this season, such that few teams will touch him next year in FA? Is there any guarantee that he has another season where he gets 11 sacks? No and no. If he gets hurt, teams will be reluctant to sign him to a long term deal, and if they do the guaranteed money won't be really high, particularly if it's an injury with a strong possibility of recurring. If he doesn't get hurt, but puts up only 8 sacks, then I'd say definitely no, he won't get a big contract. He might get offered the same amount as what the Lions were willing to pony up, but not much more than that.

But here's something to consider Legend. He plays on his one year tender, goes into FA and is 27 years old. Most teams will be interested in signing him to a one year deal, or long term deal of five years minimum. He will be out of his prime if he does the latter once that contract is up, and likely won't get the big payday again. If he does the former, he's in his prime but has to go through the insecurity for yet another season and risk the injury. I understand he is gambling on himself, and I completely understand that. What I don't understand is the idea that now he thinks he needs to avoid training camp out of concern for injury. That's what pisses me off.

If he would have signed the Lions offer, he could have had the best of both worlds. He would have guaranteed money, he would have had a deal that paid him well for his position based on his production, and he would have exited that contract while he was still in his prime and had the opportunity to deal with teams in FA during a team in which the salary caps of the teams would have been higher than next year.

I guess, Legend, that our views of Avril's abilities are what sets us apart. Personally, I think he's good, but not great. He certainly is not, in my mind, close to an elite level talent in the NFL. If he puts up 14 sacks this season, or something in that area, then I'd say yes, he's reached that level. But for now....I think he's good and that's it.

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July 22nd, 2012, 2:28 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
i think he s going to hold out for about a week as a way to posture in an effort to avoid future franchise tag use. i agree that the risk of getting injured over a season far outweighs the one week avril is saying he will miss.

regardless, im happy with how this went down because the Lions were able to avoid cap hell. i think they are better served seeing how avril as well as the rest of the guys on the last year of there contracts do and decide which ones they need to keep, which ones they can replace from within and which ones they might need to replace in the draft.

im okay with the lions not giving him more because i understand there cap situation but i cant sit here like you guys and call avril names and try to ignore not just his remarkable 2011 but also a very good 2010 (remember we started arguing about this last offseason and it was much of the same)


July 22nd, 2012, 5:13 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
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Avril, Lions made understandable decisions

By Mike Mady
Lions Insider
Posted Jul 21, 2012

The two sides' inability to find common ground is understandable, given the perspectives of each, writes Lions' insider Mike Mady

The inability for the Detroit Lions and defensive end Cliff Avril to reach a long-term deal is a disappointing result for everyone involved.

In the last few days, Avril has even remarked that he won't attend the team's first day of training camp on July 26, even threatening to potentially not show at all.

While no one knows what the future holds for sure, it's clear that the Lions wanted to lock up their most productive pass-rusher, while Avril coveted the security of a long-term pact laced with guaranteed money.

But despite a shared disappointment, both sides made calculated business decisions with their own interests in mind (a necessary function of successful business).

The gap separating the two sides was reported to be a small one but was ultimately unbridgeable.

On one side stood Avril, with the understanding that he earned the right to more than an alleged three-year, $30 million offer. How much more isn’t clear.

Avril isn’t wrong either. Defensive ends with comparable production have secured more lucrative deals. Arizona Cardinals’ defensive end Calais Campbell is a great example. He was given a reported five-year deal worth $55 million, despite producing only eight sacks and four forced fumbles in 2011. When you consider Avril had 11 sacks and six forced fumbles in the same amount of games, his belief gains merit.

Of course, it’s difficult to compare the players, as Avril plays in a defensive system designed to maximize his opportunities for sacks by putting a large emphasis on rushing the passer from the defensive end position.

Still, in a league where every contract you sign could be your last, you can’t blame a player for cashing in when he can to provide long-term security for himself and his family (Avril is the father of a young child).

On the other side of the gap stands the Detroit Lions.

The desire to sign Avril long term was present but the financial resources may not have been.

The Lions must be conscious of the fact that key players will need to be re-signed in the near future.

Among those players is safety Louis Delmas, who is still playing out his rookie contract. Delmas is one of the most important players on the defense and will command a significant raise over a base salary that should be a little under $1 million in 2012.

In addition to Delmas, defensive tackles Sammie Hill and Corey Williams both have expiring contracts with Linebackers Justin Durant and DeAndre Levy also set to become unrestricted. Lastly, top cornerback Chris Houston rounds out the key defensive players that may have the option to leave in 2013.

The Lions already are pressed against the cap, so players like Delmas, Houston, Levy and Hill could be difficult to resign as they will have the opportunity to earn raises over their slated 2012 salaries.

Also, it is important to remember that the Lions have to be prepared to pay quarterback Matthew Stafford, who could play himself into a $100-plus million contract if he is able to remain healthy in 2012. Additionally, defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh figures to command the largest salary of the team’s defense for the foreseeable future.

With all that considered, it is difficult for the Lions to restrict their salary cap flexibility, especially for a position of strength.

If Avril departs next season, the Lions could go to the draft for a replacement while increasing the workload of Willie Young and Lawrence Jackson. However, if Houston or Delmas leave, the team would have to bank on young, mid-to-low-round draft choices to fill the void.

The NFL is a business, and both Avril and the Lions operated with their best interests in mind.


July 23rd, 2012, 11:13 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
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Mayhew not pressuring Avril to get to training camp
National Football PostBy Brad Biggs



Publicly, at least, Detroit Lions general manager Martin Mayhew isn’t putting any pressure on Cliff Avril to get to training camp.

The defensive end has yet to arrive and that is no surprise. He made it clear he would not be on time when he failed to work out a long-term contract with the club prior to the July 16 deadline for players with the franchise tag.

Now, it’s a matter of time before Avril arrives. Yes, the Lions would prefer sooner rather than later but Avril isn’t contractually obligated to be there right now because he has not signed a one-year offer that will pay him $10.6 million for the 2012 season.

“I would love to have Cliff here, looking forward to seeing him,” Mayhew said, according to Dave Birkett of the Detroit Free Press. “Eventually I know he will be here, and he’ll be in great condition when he gets here. I know he’s a hard worker. He’s getting ready to play football, and he’s excited about this season.”

Avril hinted he would remain at home for his son’s birthday when no deal materialized for him. That was on Friday. It is anyone’s guess at this point when he’ll make his way to camp.

Mayhew didn’t want to speculate on the possibility of placing the tag on Avril again after this coming season, and he said he appreciates part of the approach Avril is taking.

“One of the things about Cliff’s situation, if there’s anything positive to take from it, or that was encouraging for me, was he’s very optimistic about how he’s going to perform this season and he’s willing to bet on himself, and I respect that about him,” Mayhew said. “He has his reasons for not being here, but I guess what I’m saying is we made a very solid offer to him that we felt was a very good offer. He was willing to bet on himself and bet he’s going to outperform what was on the table, and I like that.”

The Lions could always attempt to sign Avril to a long-term deal again but that could not take place until after the season.


The bolded part points out that Mayhew is not upset over the situation with Avril. So, why are a bunch of fans who don't write the checks all bent out of shape over him? Mayhew actually sounds happy that Cliff is betting on himself. I think it will pay off for Cliff.


August 1st, 2012, 12:02 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
BillySims wrote:
Quote:
Mayhew not pressuring Avril to get to training camp
National Football PostBy Brad Biggs



Publicly, at least, Detroit Lions general manager Martin Mayhew isn’t putting any pressure on Cliff Avril to get to training camp.

The defensive end has yet to arrive and that is no surprise. He made it clear he would not be on time when he failed to work out a long-term contract with the club prior to the July 16 deadline for players with the franchise tag.

Now, it’s a matter of time before Avril arrives. Yes, the Lions would prefer sooner rather than later but Avril isn’t contractually obligated to be there right now because he has not signed a one-year offer that will pay him $10.6 million for the 2012 season.

“I would love to have Cliff here, looking forward to seeing him,” Mayhew said, according to Dave Birkett of the Detroit Free Press. “Eventually I know he will be here, and he’ll be in great condition when he gets here. I know he’s a hard worker. He’s getting ready to play football, and he’s excited about this season.”

Avril hinted he would remain at home for his son’s birthday when no deal materialized for him. That was on Friday. It is anyone’s guess at this point when he’ll make his way to camp.

Mayhew didn’t want to speculate on the possibility of placing the tag on Avril again after this coming season, and he said he appreciates part of the approach Avril is taking.

“One of the things about Cliff’s situation, if there’s anything positive to take from it, or that was encouraging for me, was he’s very optimistic about how he’s going to perform this season and he’s willing to bet on himself, and I respect that about him,” Mayhew said. “He has his reasons for not being here, but I guess what I’m saying is we made a very solid offer to him that we felt was a very good offer. He was willing to bet on himself and bet he’s going to outperform what was on the table, and I like that.”

The Lions could always attempt to sign Avril to a long-term deal again but that could not take place until after the season.


The bolded part points out that Mayhew is not upset over the situation with Avril. So, why are a bunch of fans who don't write the checks all bent out of shape over him? Mayhew actually sounds happy that Cliff is betting on himself. I think it will pay off for Cliff.


And if it does, good for him. I think what you don't understand Billy is that we are fans of the team. What would have been best for the TEAM is that Avril would have accepted the deal offered him. It would have given them some cap space they could have used to get additional talent. However, I fully understand that he feels he is worth more. I don't agree with him, but that's his perogative. However, missing camp isn't doing him any good. As a matter of fact, he may be digging his own grave, as it would seem Willie Young is taking advantage of the situation. As such, Cliff may very well see his playing time reduced this season if Young continues to develop. That could be better for the team, and if so, good. What bothered me the most is that he knew the Lions were cap strapped, and somehow expected them to hand him more than what they could. Explain to me the logic behind that. And don't mention number of years on the contract. Avril already said the three year deal was good by him. He wanted more guaranteed money. The Lions were already guaranteeing two thirds of the value. Percentage wise, that was more than what Drew Brees got (67% vs. 60%).

Also...do you REALLY expect Mayhew to speak to the media and rip on Avril for the entire contract situation?

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August 1st, 2012, 1:09 pm
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