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 Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks? 
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
m2karateman wrote:
Also...do you REALLY expect Mayhew to speak to the media and rip on Avril for the entire contract situation?


This...


I don't know why you guys put so much stock into a statement that can't be said any other way. Mayhew can't say anything differently, or it just adds fuel to the fire. You think Mayhew is happy that Cliff hamstrug us prior to the draft, said he wanted to work out a deal, waited until FA and the draft was over, and then more or less negotiated in bad faith? If he would have told Mayhew that he wanted $12 million per year prior to the draft, I'd bet you unicorns to leprechauns that he would be out of here by now, and we would have made a bigger splash in FA and drafted a replacement DE (and been better off for it!).


August 1st, 2012, 2:54 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Also...do you REALLY expect Mayhew to speak to the media and rip on Avril for the entire contract situation?


This...


I don't know why you guys put so much stock into a statement that can't be said any other way. Mayhew can't say anything differently, or it just adds fuel to the fire. You think Mayhew is happy that Cliff hamstrug us prior to the draft, said he wanted to work out a deal, waited until FA and the draft was over, and then more or less negotiated in bad faith? If he would have told Mayhew that he wanted $12 million per year prior to the draft, I'd bet you unicorns to leprechauns that he would be out of here by now, and we would have made a bigger splash in FA and drafted a replacement DE (and been better off for it!).


When wjb & m2 are agreeing, it usually means the situation is pretty cut and dry. Avrils not a dick, but he definitly did things the hard way and hurt the team in the process.


August 1st, 2012, 3:42 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
DJ-B wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Also...do you REALLY expect Mayhew to speak to the media and rip on Avril for the entire contract situation?


This...


I don't know why you guys put so much stock into a statement that can't be said any other way. Mayhew can't say anything differently, or it just adds fuel to the fire. You think Mayhew is happy that Cliff hamstrug us prior to the draft, said he wanted to work out a deal, waited until FA and the draft was over, and then more or less negotiated in bad faith? If he would have told Mayhew that he wanted $12 million per year prior to the draft, I'd bet you unicorns to leprechauns that he would be out of here by now, and we would have made a bigger splash in FA and drafted a replacement DE (and been better off for it!).


When wjb & m2 are agreeing, it usually means the situation is pretty cut and dry. Avrils not a dick, but he definitly did things the hard way and hurt the team in the process.


Hahaha :cheers:


August 1st, 2012, 3:55 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
While we're utilizing creative fiction to bash Avril, why not just go ahead and blame him for kidnapping the Lindbergh baby too? The only thing cut and dry is how unreasonable fans can be. I've certainly been guilty of this kind of fanaticism too, so please don't take my comments as a condemnation. Merely an observation about a discussion that has lost perspective.

It's a negotiation, people. This is how it works. Imagine yourself in Avril's shoes and it's pretty easy to see how things have unfolded.

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August 1st, 2012, 3:57 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Also...do you REALLY expect Mayhew to speak to the media and rip on Avril for the entire contract situation?


This...


I don't know why you guys put so much stock into a statement that can't be said any other way. Mayhew can't say anything differently, or it just adds fuel to the fire. You think Mayhew is happy that Cliff hamstrug us prior to the draft, said he wanted to work out a deal, waited until FA and the draft was over, and then more or less negotiated in bad faith? If he would have told Mayhew that he wanted $12 million per year prior to the draft, I'd bet you unicorns to leprechauns that he would be out of here by now, and we would have made a bigger splash in FA and drafted a replacement DE (and been better off for it!).


Absolutely spot-on. The whole comment. He would've been GONE, and I'm very sure the Patriots would've given a lot for him since they don't value drafts picks much at all. Him signing the franchise tag probably made Mayhew think he just wanted around $10 mill a year. Either way, next offseason he'll be gone and Willie Young/LoJack replacing him doesn't sound bad to me at all. I'm sure another DE with the skillset LoJack currently has will be signed for depth, but I have a feeling we'll do what it takes to sign Brent Grimes or the best guard/center available to a long-term contract, if not get an OL or corner early in the draft.

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August 1st, 2012, 4:04 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
mwill2 wrote:
While we're utilizing creative fiction to bash Avril, why not just go ahead and blame him for kidnapping the Lindbergh baby too? The only thing cut and dry is how unreasonable fans can be. I've certainly been guilty of this kind of fanaticism too, so please don't take my comments as a condemnation. Merely an observation about a discussion that has lost perspective.

It's a negotiation, people. This is how it works. Imagine yourself in Avril's shoes and it's pretty easy to see how things have unfolded.


I wish I could imagine myself staring at $20 million guaranteed, but I'm not jealous about it.

Mwill - Even putting myself in his shoes I think he negotiated in bad faith. If he really thought his services were worth $12 million per I think he should have came out with that number early on, but like I said, I bet you if he did he wouldn't be a Lion today. Further, it was likely his unreasonable contract demands that are keeping him in a Lions uniform today. Like it or not, he could have signed with anyone else but no one wanted him for his asking price. I realize that would have included some draft picks too, but if he was the star that he thinks he is the picks shouldn't be that big of a deal.

The fact of the matter is, we offered him a very fair deal with a boatload of money, and he scoffed at it. We offered him more than what most on here think he's worth. We offered him a deal that pays him NEAR what the franchise tag is worth (top 5 average money), for three years, most of which was guaranteed, and Avril is no where near a top five DE by most accounts, including mine.

I really don't see how anyone can take Avril's side after all of that. IMO the "market value" argument is out of the window, given that no other team wanted to buck up and pay it.


August 1st, 2012, 4:07 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
mwill2 wrote:
It's a negotiation, people. This is how it works. Imagine yourself in Avril's shoes and it's pretty easy to see how things have unfolded.


Yep. he thinks he is worth more than he is, and now is holding out to prove a point and continuing to detract from team chemistry he could be building. I don't see any fictitious reasoning in the previous post, just pretty common sense stuff.


August 1st, 2012, 4:09 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
Quote:
why not just go ahead and blame him for kidnapping the Lindbergh baby too


THAT BASTARD! :wink:

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August 1st, 2012, 4:55 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
mwill....I can't say I know exactly what happened during negotiations. Did Avril start out negotiations early, before he got tagged and before the draft? Did Mayhew offer him an extremely low ball offer that upset him? We'll never know. I don't know that Mayhew didn't try to trade Avril, and couldn't find a taker because teams already knew he was asking for the stars. Again, we'll never really know all the details. What I do know is that:

A) He turned down $20 million for signing his name to a piece of paper.
B) He is set to make more this year than what his entire original contract was worth
C) He is not in camp because he's afraid of injury, despite the fact that once he signs his name to the franchise tag he's guaranteed his ten million plus....
D) He's suddenly afraid of injury, despite the fact he's played four previous seasons for far less money

None of this is deniable, because Avril acknowledged all of it in interviews. What is also known is that the Lions couldn't afford to offer Avril more than what they did. Not only for this season, but for the next two seasons. They have other, far more important players, to have to negotiate with and couldn't afford to earmark anymore for Avril than what they did.

Avril has had ONE really good season, and he wants to get paid like he's been to multiple Pro Bowls. Sorry, but for the Lions it's a bigger risk to offer him any more than what they did than for him to turn down the deal.

Now, is he banking on himself to stay healthy, play lights out and earn himself a big pay day next February? Absolutely, and that IS a good thing. But did he hurt the team by turning down that deal? Yes, because in all likelihood that deal probably would have seen his cap hit this season be in the neighborhood of 8 to 9 million or so. Even a savings of 2 million on the cap would have been very helpful and allowed the team to make some moves.

Now, tell me exactly how that is something any of us would have done? Sorry, but I believe in the old saying 'one in the hand is worth two in the bush' (keep the jokes to yourselves). He had $20M in hand. He turned it down in hopes that he will earn more next season. Fine, so be it. I don't know that having earned scratch the previous four years I would have turned down that much money. I truly think I would have had enough sense to sign a deal that would guarantee me that much, play in a town that embraced me and is on the brink of something pretty special, and played for a coach that was one of the best D-coordinators in the league before he got here.

But that's just me.

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August 1st, 2012, 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
i can completely understand why someone would opt for 1 year/10.6 million with the possibility of hitting the open market at age 27, then taking 3yrs/30mill. if avril plays up to his last season's performance he is going to have 10.6 mill for 2012 and whatever is guaranteed on his next contract, the total will be far more than the $20 mill the Lions guaranteed him. no reasonable person can argue that. the rest of what m2k and wjb especially are saying is based on assumptions they are making.

the only question i have for avril is : if you are betting on yourself to outperform the Lions best offer than why arent you in camp? I can understand posturing a little to protest getting tagged again ffor next season but if he s not back there by Monday he s taken it too far.


August 2nd, 2012, 10:52 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
maybe he's thinking " hey look how good i did last season without a spring camp....why do I need one now?"

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August 2nd, 2012, 11:06 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
The Legend wrote:
i can completely understand why someone would opt for 1 year/10.6 million with the possibility of hitting the open market at age 27, then taking 3yrs/30mill. if avril plays up to his last season's performance he is going to have 10.6 mill for 2012 and whatever is guaranteed on his next contract, the total will be far more than the $20 mill the Lions guaranteed him. no reasonable person can argue that. the rest of what m2k and wjb especially are saying is based on assumptions they are making.

the only question i have for avril is : if you are betting on yourself to outperform the Lions best offer than why arent you in camp? I can understand posturing a little to protest getting tagged again ffor next season but if he s not back there by Monday he s taken it too far.


What assumption am I making Legend. Everything I stated is what Avril has come out with in interviews. I have said that I don't know what happened prior to the draft, in regards to negotiations. Avril may rightfully be upset with how things went. None of us know.

But you can't deny that the Lions really couldn't afford to offer more, can you? All indications are that they are very close to their cap limit once he signs his tender. What more could they have offered him? I am not assuming anything in regards to the guaranteed money. He and his agent acknowledged the terms that were offered.

Your last statement is pretty much what I am saying now. You were offered a deal and turned it down, feeling you are worth more. Fine. But why stay out of camp this long? Injury concerns during camp weren't an issue before, why are they so important now?

It almost makes me feel like he will not put forth an honest effort during the season, for fear of sustaining an injury. That, of couse, could hurt his stock in free agency, but not so much as a serious knee injury.

By saying this:

Quote:
if avril plays up to his last season's performance he is going to have 10.6 mill for 2012 and whatever is guaranteed on his next contract, the total will be far more than the $20 mill the Lions guaranteed him.


it is you who is making the assumption. You are assuming that he will meet last seasons performance. I have no doubt that if he has another double digit sack season with some forced fumbles, he will get a deal worth more than the $20M from the Lions. However, what if he doesn't? What if he backslides to a six sack season, or thereabouts? You think a team will come calling with a $10M per year deal in hand with two thirds of it guaranteed? I don't.

I don't think Avril has intentionally tried to hamstring the Lions, as has been suggested. I think he is trying to act in his own best interests. And I am not trying to deny him that right or say he's being unreasonable in doing so. I simply feel he overvalued his contributions, and that I feel the Lions made a pretty fair offer in light of their salary cap situation.

But remember one thing. Most of us on this forum are fans of the team, not the individual player. And from that perspective, Cliff didn't do the team any favors by turning down the offer.

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August 2nd, 2012, 11:12 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
Avril hasn't signed, so can we pull the franchise tag off? How does that work?

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August 2nd, 2012, 2:47 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
m2karateman wrote:
I don't think Avril has intentionally tried to hamstring the Lions, as has been suggested. I think he is trying to act in his own best interests. And I am not trying to deny him that right or say he's being unreasonable in doing so. I simply feel he overvalued his contributions, and that I feel the Lions made a pretty fair offer in light of their salary cap situation.

But remember one thing. Most of us on this forum are fans of the team, not the individual player. And from that perspective, Cliff didn't do the team any favors by turning down the offer.


Exactly.


August 2nd, 2012, 2:55 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
m2k - i agree the lions couldnt offer more and were constrained by cap concerns. i wrote about how they have several starters and rotation players on defense that will become free agents soon and mayhew needs to figure out which of those guys he needs to keep and which he might be able to replace with his recent draft picks - players on first contracts.

i dont think avril should care too much about what the lions cap status is. thats the equivalent of asking your boss for a raise because you just bought a pricy house rather than on the basis of the quality of the work you provide. it probably does not matter to avril what the lions cap status is when he is negotiating a contract at least it shouldnt if he is trying to get market value.

i didnt assume anything about avril, i wrote an IF THEN type statement which you agree with. it was not an assumption that he will do well but if he does then he will get more than what the lions offerred. i cant sit here and rip him to shreds about it but like you said i do question how smart it is to bet on yourself to be an outstanding performer and then not show up.

im happy the lions used the cap on him - it was the smart move from the team perspective. at the same time i understand why avril didnt take the rumored offer, i dont think its offensive that he turned it down or part of any purposeful plot to stick it to the front office or team.


August 2nd, 2012, 3:10 pm
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