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 Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks? 
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
The resident cap guru is gonna rule in M2K's favor on this one. Stafford is still playing on his rookie contract. It could be considered a restructured rookie contract, but he's still technically playing on his original deal. The number of years and total compensation didn't change, just when the money would be paid out and how it would be accounted for.

I also wanted to add that it wouldn't have made much sense to restructure either Suh or CJ last season. Suh was playing for the 2nd year minimum in order to give him the largest option bonus possible under the terms of the old CBA. So, there really wasn't much the Lions could have done with his contract even if they wanted to. In CJ's case, everything they would have gained from a simple restructure last year would have counted against this season's cap. You only want to do those things with players with multiple years remaining on their contract, so you can spread it out.

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February 23rd, 2012, 11:18 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
slybri19 wrote:
The resident cap guru is gonna rule in M2K's favor on this one. Stafford is still playing on his rookie contract. It could be considered a restructured rookie contract, but he's still technically playing on his original deal. The number of years and total compensation didn't change, just when the money would be paid out and how it would be accounted for.

I also wanted to add that it wouldn't have made much sense to restructure either Suh or CJ last season. Suh was playing for the 2nd year minimum in order to give him the largest option bonus possible under the terms of the old CBA. So, there really wasn't much the Lions could have done with his contract even if they wanted to. In CJ's case, everything they would have gained from a simple restructure last year would have counted against this season's cap. You only want to do those things with players with multiple years remaining on their contract, so you can spread it out.


OK, I read the signing bonus area of the CBA and this makes more sense now. The phrase "signing bonus" typically refers to monies received at the beginning of a new contract (i.e., when a contract is signed). The CBA stipulates several alternate scenarios--including "salary advances"--that are considered "signing bonuses" in the eyes of the league (for the purposes of prorating dollars for cap relief). They ought to just call it a salary advance, as "signing bonus" is a complete misapplication of the phrase, which is what I found confusing. It's really just a degree of contract flexibility that is part of the CBA.

That's my long winded way of saying I was wrong. Dammit.

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February 24th, 2012, 1:10 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
It looks like CJs contract is going to get done before Avril's. According to Mayhew talks are progressing along and Bus Cook is going to meet with the Lions on Saturday. That would hopefully free up enough space to sing our guys and maybe add one high level FA.

Edited to add they are meeting with Avril's agent today.


Last edited by inheritedlionsfan on February 24th, 2012, 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.



February 24th, 2012, 3:14 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
My FA prediction - we keep and over-pay Avril (mistake), we draft Mike Adams (mistake) and we left Backus go this year (mistake), and if we land a new FA its C. Finnigan (mistake).

My FA wishlist - keep Tulloch, sign Porter, tag and trade Avril, draft Kontz (if Kontz isn't there then we should be able to grab a good DE or LB, or Glenn). I'd rather convert a big CB to play FS than draft Barron, given his coverage skills.


February 24th, 2012, 3:29 pm
Post Re: Mayhew on Avril
verne blakmun wrote:
I don't think they're going to franchise him.
http://rosterwatch.com/?p=2179



He has to say that while he's negotiating with him, that way if he does tag him later it was a "last resort." Avril doesn't want to be tagged, and if we do tag him we will likely have to trade him. He has already alluded that he will sit out training camp if we do tag him.


February 24th, 2012, 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
Can someone tell me the rules for trading for a player that has been tagged? Is it always a first rd pick? Can't remember how that works.

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February 24th, 2012, 10:19 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
kdsberman wrote:
Can someone tell me the rules for trading for a player that has been tagged? Is it always a first rd pick? Can't remember how that works.


There is no rule. It's all negotiable, with no real restrictions.


February 24th, 2012, 10:40 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
It looks like CJs contract is going to get done before Avril's. According to Mayhew talks are progressing along and Bus Cook is going to meet with the Lions on Saturday. That would hopefully free up enough space to sing our guys and maybe add one high level FA.

Edited to add they are meeting with Avril's agent today.


Well, EVERYTHING, rests on how Calvin's contract extension works out this year. They can't do anything with anyone else until Calvin's done.


February 25th, 2012, 12:20 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Can someone tell me the rules for trading for a player that has been tagged? Is it always a first rd pick? Can't remember how that works.


There is no rule. It's all negotiable, with no real restrictions.

Maybe I'm thinking of restricted free agents?

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February 25th, 2012, 2:42 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Can someone tell me the rules for trading for a player that has been tagged? Is it always a first rd pick? Can't remember how that works.


There is no rule. It's all negotiable, with no real restrictions.

Maybe I'm thinking of restricted free agents?


There is no restrictions on trading a RFA. If a team wants to offer a tender and then trade him, they can do that. But they have to offer the tender first, and typically the player has to sign it. If the team doesn't give the player a tender offer, then he becomes unrestricted and can sign with anyone without compensation to the original team.

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February 25th, 2012, 2:04 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My FA prediction - we keep and over-pay Avril (mistake), we draft Mike Adams (mistake) and we left Backus go this year (mistake), and if we land a new FA its C. Finnigan (mistake).

My FA wishlist - keep Tulloch, sign Porter, tag and trade Avril, draft Kontz (if Kontz isn't there then we should be able to grab a good DE or LB, or Glenn). I'd rather convert a big CB to play FS than draft Barron, given his coverage skills.


You know wjb, if you could be any more of a Debbie Downer, I don't know how. Everything this team does is a mistake to you. Even things that haven't happened, and may not happen, is a mistake to you. 10-6 and a playoff berth must have been sheer luck, huh? What's your prediction for next season? 2-14?

I am as big a critic of this team as anyone. But I'm willing to give the current coaching staff and administration their due. I can recall there were a number of folks who complained about us giving up late picks for Rob Sims, Corey Williams, Chris Houston, Shaun Hill, etc. And all those moves have turned out quite well. The free agent signings have, for the most part, turned out quite well. I'm not going to sit here and say they have the Midas touch, but for God's sake give credit where credit is due and have a little faith.

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February 25th, 2012, 2:09 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
I was under the impression that tagging and trading a player was extremely difficult, which is why its almost never seen in the NFL (unlike, say the NBA where it happens all the time).


February 25th, 2012, 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
m2karateman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My FA prediction - we keep and over-pay Avril (mistake), we draft Mike Adams (mistake) and we left Backus go this year (mistake), and if we land a new FA its C. Finnigan (mistake).

My FA wishlist - keep Tulloch, sign Porter, tag and trade Avril, draft Kontz (if Kontz isn't there then we should be able to grab a good DE or LB, or Glenn). I'd rather convert a big CB to play FS than draft Barron, given his coverage skills.


You know wjb, if you could be any more of a Debbie Downer, I don't know how. Everything this team does is a mistake to you. Even things that haven't happened, and may not happen, is a mistake to you. 10-6 and a playoff berth must have been sheer luck, huh? What's your prediction for next season? 2-14?

I am as big a critic of this team as anyone. But I'm willing to give the current coaching staff and administration their due. I can recall there were a number of folks who complained about us giving up late picks for Rob Sims, Corey Williams, Chris Houston, Shaun Hill, etc. And all those moves have turned out quite well. The free agent signings have, for the most part, turned out quite well. I'm not going to sit here and say they have the Midas touch, but for God's sake give credit where credit is due and have a little faith.



Tell me about it. :roll:

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February 25th, 2012, 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
kdsberman wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My FA prediction - we keep and over-pay Avril (mistake), we draft Mike Adams (mistake) and we left Backus go this year (mistake), and if we land a new FA its C. Finnigan (mistake).

My FA wishlist - keep Tulloch, sign Porter, tag and trade Avril, draft Kontz (if Kontz isn't there then we should be able to grab a good DE or LB, or Glenn). I'd rather convert a big CB to play FS than draft Barron, given his coverage skills.


You know wjb, if you could be any more of a Debbie Downer, I don't know how. Everything this team does is a mistake to you. Even things that haven't happened, and may not happen, is a mistake to you. 10-6 and a playoff berth must have been sheer luck, huh? What's your prediction for next season? 2-14?

I am as big a critic of this team as anyone. But I'm willing to give the current coaching staff and administration their due. I can recall there were a number of folks who complained about us giving up late picks for Rob Sims, Corey Williams, Chris Houston, Shaun Hill, etc. And all those moves have turned out quite well. The free agent signings have, for the most part, turned out quite well. I'm not going to sit here and say they have the Midas touch, but for God's sake give credit where credit is due and have a little faith.



Tell me about it. :roll:

How can you enjoy the games with that outlook

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February 25th, 2012, 7:11 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
Blueskies wrote:
I was under the impression that tagging and trading a player was extremely difficult, which is why its almost never seen in the NFL (unlike, say the NBA where it happens all the time).


You are right. I am sure someone will correct me if I misunderstand the language, but here is how I understand it.

It is difficult for a couple reasons. Franchising a player, especially one at a big $ position, guarantees a player a big number. For example, I think I read that Matt Flynn's franchise number would be around $14.4 million. The original team, in this case Packers, wouldn't want to work out a new deal for Flynn. A new deal would come with signing bonus money that the Packers would then take a cap hit for the very next year. Lets say Flynn signs a 6 year $60 mil deal with $20 mil signing bonus and then Packers trade him right after the deal is done so he doesn't even play 1 year with the Packers. That means the Packers will have $20 mil of dead money in 2013. So the Packers signing him ahead of time is bad.

The $20 mil of dead money is bad obviously, but so is $14.4 mil of dead money. What I mean by this is if the Packers cannot find a trade they like, they will be on the hook for $14.4 mil to pay to Flynn, which obviously counts against the total cap number.

The team trading for Flynn would want to know what he is looking for $ wise since they don't want to have the same problem. Lets say the Dolphins trade a 1st this year and a 2nd next year for Flynn (just go with it). The Dolphins would only have him for the 1 year without resigning him. If Flynn is wanting Peyton Manning money, the Dolphins will not be willing (I am assuming) in paying him that much and they would have given up 2 big draft picks to acquire Flynn for only 1 year. Obviously they could try to do the franchise tag/trade things as well, but it would be even harder given what happened to the Dolphins the previous year.

Thus the team giving up draft picks would have to 'tamper' to figure out what Flynn would want for a contract to determine if they are willing to pay that much for him.

So now goes the chess game. The only way the Packers would franchise Flynn is if there is a 'wink, nod' agreement made with a trade partner on compensation, as well as Flynn's agent on a new contract. This also gives the player all the control as if he doesn't want to play for a team, he can just say he wants a 20 year $300 mil contract and the Packers will never be able to find a trade partner.

Hopefully this makes sense...

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February 26th, 2012, 12:57 am
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