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 Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks? 
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
Its not a holdout if no contract is signed.

They tagged him with the non-exclusive tag, so while he's still negotiating with Lions right now, he is free to negotiate with other teams, but we have first right to match any offer, or we get two 1st round picks from whoever he signs with. Smart move by the Lions. This allows Cliff to go out and see what the market is for him, it frees up Mayhew to spend more time dealing with other FAs and let other teams do the negotiating for us, and if some team wants Cliff bad enough, we get two 1st rounders for him. It almost guarantees he'll be back, but also frees up the time we have to spend negotiating. Now there's no limit to how long it will take to get something done.


March 5th, 2012, 12:32 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
Detroit Lions.com wrote:
Lions use franchise tag on Avril
Posted by ttwentyman on March 5, 2012 – 12:23 pm


As expected, the Lions have placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on defensive end Cliff Avril.

The team and Avril could not come to an agreement on a long-term contract today so the team placed the one-year franchise tag on him before today’s 4 p.m. deadline. The move prevents Avril from hitting free agency March 13.

Placing the non-exclusive tag on Avril allows him to negotiate with other teams, but the Lions would have the right to match any offer or be compensated with two first-round selections.

The Lions will pay Avril $10.6 million next season, which is a hefty raise from the $2.61 million he made in 2011. Avril is bound to play under the tag next season unless an agreement on a long-term deal can be made before July 15. After that date, Avril has no choice but to play next season under the tag or not play at all.

The franchise tag certainly isn’t an ideal move for a Lions team looking for salary cap relief, but losing Avril ultimately proved to be a worse option in the long run.

Avril, 25, has improved his sack total each season since being drafted in 2008 by the Lions. In 47 career games (44 starts), Avril has 30 sacks, 129 tackles, 14 forced fumbles, 12 passes defended and two touchdowns.

His 11 sacks led the team last season and his six forced fumbles were second-most in the NFL to only the Ravens’ Terrell Suggs (7). Avril also recovered three fumbles, the second most in the league.

Avril became the first Lions player to register 10 sacks and have at least one fumble return touchdown and one interception return touchdown in the same season. He’s only the sixth player since the NFL started registering sacks as a statistic in 1982 to accomplish that feat, and the first since 2006 (DeMarcus Ware).

His season earned him the Lem Barney Defensive MVP Award, as voted by his teammates.

The Lions will continue to negotiate with Avril’s agent Brian Mackler on a long-term deal, but can now shift some focus to getting some of the other team’s key free agents signed knowing that Avril will be a Lion next year.

http://blogs.detroitlions.com/2012/03/0 ... -on-avril/



I'm fine with this and it gives both sides time to work out a long term deal. No one is going to give up two 1st round picks for Avril (or anything close to it) so this just guarantees he'll be here long term.

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March 5th, 2012, 2:41 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
What are the chances that we trade him?

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March 5th, 2012, 4:23 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
But, But, Mayhew said he didn't want to FT Avril...

:roll:


Told you so! I don't know why people fall for that crap. The put so much stock into things that people "have" to say.

Now lets trade him, and get on with our off-season plans. Lets NOT be the old typical Lions and over-pay this cat and let Tulloch go.


March 5th, 2012, 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
But, But, Mayhew said he didn't want to FT Avril...

:roll:


Told you so! I don't know why people fall for that crap. The put so much stock into things that people "have" to say.

Now lets trade him, and get on with our off-season plans. Lets NOT be the old typical Lions and over-pay this cat and let Tulloch go.


He said the tag was a bad option but that playing without Avril would be worse. This move shouldn't surprise anyone.

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March 5th, 2012, 5:42 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
mwill2 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
But, But, Mayhew said he didn't want to FT Avril...

:roll:


Told you so! I don't know why people fall for that crap. The put so much stock into things that people "have" to say.

Now lets trade him, and get on with our off-season plans. Lets NOT be the old typical Lions and over-pay this cat and let Tulloch go.


He said the tag was a bad option but that playing without Avril would be worse. This move shouldn't surprise anyone.

Agree. I'm glad to have him, but if we can get 2 first round picks out of him I'd take it in a heartbeat. I highly doubt that'll happen though

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March 5th, 2012, 6:18 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
If we can get a first and save $10M, everyone should be estatic

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March 5th, 2012, 11:24 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
Here's a dumb question, but is the ONLY trade that the Lions can accept 2 1st rd picks?

Can they negotiate with another team who makes an offer on Avril?

2 1st rd picks is awfully high for one player, even if pass rushing DE are a highly valued commodity. I would think that kind of deal would come to a major playmaker like a QB, or "maybe" someone like Vincent Jackson had he been tagged. I think a 2nd rd and a pick in the 2013 draft would be reasonable. I like the kid and I'm not saying push him out the door by any means, but I still think that he's a 6-7 sack DE in another system and the DL has pushed his stats up. If they had already negotiated CJ's deal then there would be room for Avril. I'm more concerned about Tulloch and to a lesser extent Wright.

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March 6th, 2012, 2:42 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
DisgruntledFan wrote:
Here's a dumb question, but is the ONLY trade that the Lions can accept 2 1st rd picks?

Can they negotiate with another team who makes an offer on Avril?

2 1st rd picks is awfully high for one player, even if pass rushing DE are a highly valued commodity. I would think that kind of deal would come to a major playmaker like a QB, or "maybe" someone like Vincent Jackson had he been tagged. I think a 2nd rd and a pick in the 2013 draft would be reasonable. I like the kid and I'm not saying push him out the door by any means, but I still think that he's a 6-7 sack DE in another system and the DL has pushed his stats up. If they had already negotiated CJ's deal then there would be room for Avril. I'm more concerned about Tulloch and to a lesser extent Wright.



Yes. The Lions can negotiate a trade for less than two 1st rd picks.

I doubt that it will come to that tho. The Lions will negotiate a long term deal with a hefty signing bonus (guaranteed money) that will amortize over the length of the the contract and result in a cap number (the only thing that really counts) that is well below the $10.6 million number we're hearing. That's the best result for both sides and it's what this team historically always does.

The only thing is the Lions need to move quickly from here.

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March 6th, 2012, 8:08 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
DisgruntledFan wrote:
Here's a dumb question, but is the ONLY trade that the Lions can accept 2 1st rd picks?

Can they negotiate with another team who makes an offer on Avril?

2 1st rd picks is awfully high for one player, even if pass rushing DE are a highly valued commodity. I would think that kind of deal would come to a major playmaker like a QB, or "maybe" someone like Vincent Jackson had he been tagged. I think a 2nd rd and a pick in the 2013 draft would be reasonable. I like the kid and I'm not saying push him out the door by any means, but I still think that he's a 6-7 sack DE in another system and the DL has pushed his stats up. If they had already negotiated CJ's deal then there would be room for Avril. I'm more concerned about Tulloch and to a lesser extent Wright.


Technically it's not a trade. Another team can negotiate with Avril. If they come to an agreement, they sign him to an offer sheet (not a contract yet). The Lions then have an allotted number of days (10, I think) to match that offer or they in essence give him to that team in exchange for the two first round picks as compensation. In a trade, the two teams actually negotiate for just compensation. In this instance, the league mandates the compensation for the other team signing that player to an offer sheet.

I know, it's splitting hairs, but there are differences.

And what LF57 said is true, and speaks to what most of us have been saying. The Lions can tag and then trade Avril. The tag part is done. If the Lions don't feel they can afford Avril, they'll likely negotiate with a team to reduce the compensation from two first rounders to something more in the line of a first and fourth, second and third, two seconds....whatever. Other players can be included in that as well.

For instance, if the Eagles felt that they just HAVE to have Avril on their team, the Lions could negotiate a trade which would bring one of their players here (say like Brandon Graham) and then get additional picks beyond that.

All sorts of possibilities, but I think in the end the Lions retain Avril and sign him to a realistic deal. His cap number for 2012 will likely be around $5.5 to 6M, I think.

Next steps will be modifying some of the salary money for Stafford and Suh into bonus money, getting CJ to agree to a new deal, and cutting some of the extra fat. Corey Williams is as good as gone. His cap figure is way too high for his production. Alfonso Smith is going to be released as well.

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March 6th, 2012, 2:33 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
LionFan57 wrote:
DisgruntledFan wrote:
Here's a dumb question, but is the ONLY trade that the Lions can accept 2 1st rd picks?

Can they negotiate with another team who makes an offer on Avril?

2 1st rd picks is awfully high for one player, even if pass rushing DE are a highly valued commodity. I would think that kind of deal would come to a major playmaker like a QB, or "maybe" someone like Vincent Jackson had he been tagged. I think a 2nd rd and a pick in the 2013 draft would be reasonable. I like the kid and I'm not saying push him out the door by any means, but I still think that he's a 6-7 sack DE in another system and the DL has pushed his stats up. If they had already negotiated CJ's deal then there would be room for Avril. I'm more concerned about Tulloch and to a lesser extent Wright.



Yes. The Lions can negotiate a trade for less than two 1st rd picks.

I doubt that it will come to that tho. The Lions will negotiate a long term deal with a hefty signing bonus (guaranteed money) that will amortize over the length of the the contract and result in a cap number (the only thing that really counts) that is well below the $10.6 million number we're hearing. That's the best result for both sides and it's what this team historically always does.

The only thing is the Lions need to move quickly from here.


And it is a huge reason why the Lions are perpetually bogged down by cap limitations. I want the Lions to get away from using Signing bonuses. They hose you in the long run. I want them to start using 1 time roster bonuses. Pick a year in the front end of the contract, can be any year, and give the player a $20Million, Guaranteed, Roster Bonus. 1 time payment. The next year, you have that $20Million to use for another player. In Avril's case, we would have to have his roster bonus in 2014.


March 6th, 2012, 10:52 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
If I were Mayhew, I would offer something like the following to Avril's agent:

1. A 4 year deal averaging at $7m a year, based on something like: signing bonus of $14m; salaries of: yr1 - $1.5m, yr2 $2.5m, yr3 $0.5m, yr4 $4.5m; non-guaranteed roster bonus at the start of yr 3 of $5m.

2. That he can negotiate with any other team and that, if he can get a team to offer a better deal than the above and a draft pick between 17 and 48 (ie bottom half of the first or top half of the second), he can leave.

The structurring in 1 is effectively either a 2yr deal at $9m per year or, if he continues to perform, a 4 year deal at $7m per year. Which should hopefully keep him honest for the duration of the contract. It also means the cap hit is: yr1 $5m, yr2 $6m, yr3 $9m and yr4 $8m - which keeps the majority of the cap hit in the final 2 years, when the cap hopefully expands significantly.

The advantage of 2 is that it allows him to test the market to see if it's a fair deal. If a team is willing to pay Avril more than $7m per year then, frankly, they can have him. We avoid overpaying and get a pick out of it.


March 7th, 2012, 7:51 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
UK Lion wrote:
If I were Mayhew, I would offer something like the following to Avril's agent:

1. A 4 year deal averaging at $7m a year, based on something like: signing bonus of $14m; salaries of: yr1 - $1.5m, yr2 $2.5m, yr3 $0.5m, yr4 $4.5m; non-guaranteed roster bonus at the start of yr 3 of $5m.

2. That he can negotiate with any other team and that, if he can get a team to offer a better deal than the above and a draft pick between 17 and 48 (ie bottom half of the first or top half of the second), he can leave.

The structurring in 1 is effectively either a 2yr deal at $9m per year or, if he continues to perform, a 4 year deal at $7m per year. Which should hopefully keep him honest for the duration of the contract. It also means the cap hit is: yr1 $5m, yr2 $6m, yr3 $9m and yr4 $8m - which keeps the majority of the cap hit in the final 2 years, when the cap hopefully expands significantly.

The advantage of 2 is that it allows him to test the market to see if it's a fair deal. If a team is willing to pay Avril more than $7m per year then, frankly, they can have him. We avoid overpaying and get a pick out of it.


Not bad UK, sounds good. Hopefully something like this works out.

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March 7th, 2012, 9:08 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
UK Lion wrote:
If I were Mayhew, I would offer something like the following to Avril's agent:

1. A 4 year deal averaging at $7m a year, based on something like: signing bonus of $14m; salaries of: yr1 - $1.5m, yr2 $2.5m, yr3 $0.5m, yr4 $4.5m; non-guaranteed roster bonus at the start of yr 3 of $5m.

2. That he can negotiate with any other team and that, if he can get a team to offer a better deal than the above and a draft pick between 17 and 48 (ie bottom half of the first or top half of the second), he can leave.

The structurring in 1 is effectively either a 2yr deal at $9m per year or, if he continues to perform, a 4 year deal at $7m per year. Which should hopefully keep him honest for the duration of the contract. It also means the cap hit is: yr1 $5m, yr2 $6m, yr3 $9m and yr4 $8m - which keeps the majority of the cap hit in the final 2 years, when the cap hopefully expands significantly.

The advantage of 2 is that it allows him to test the market to see if it's a fair deal. If a team is willing to pay Avril more than $7m per year then, frankly, they can have him. We avoid overpaying and get a pick out of it.



That wouldn't be bad, but I think he's going to want much more than that, and he'll get it. I like your scenario, but I think with it we end up with the latter option and get draft picks, which is what I would prefer anyhow.


March 7th, 2012, 1:52 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
UK Lion wrote:
If I were Mayhew, I would offer something like the following to Avril's agent:

1. A 4 year deal averaging at $7m a year, based on something like: signing bonus of $14m; salaries of: yr1 - $1.5m, yr2 $2.5m, yr3 $0.5m, yr4 $4.5m; non-guaranteed roster bonus at the start of yr 3 of $5m.

2. That he can negotiate with any other team and that, if he can get a team to offer a better deal than the above and a draft pick between 17 and 48 (ie bottom half of the first or top half of the second), he can leave.

The structurring in 1 is effectively either a 2yr deal at $9m per year or, if he continues to perform, a 4 year deal at $7m per year. Which should hopefully keep him honest for the duration of the contract. It also means the cap hit is: yr1 $5m, yr2 $6m, yr3 $9m and yr4 $8m - which keeps the majority of the cap hit in the final 2 years, when the cap hopefully expands significantly.

The advantage of 2 is that it allows him to test the market to see if it's a fair deal. If a team is willing to pay Avril more than $7m per year then, frankly, they can have him. We avoid overpaying and get a pick out of it.


Marshawn Lynch just got $17M in guaranteed money. That said, if I were Avril's agent I would laugh at $14M and demand $20M based on the Lynch contract.

Contracts already being offered and signed have to be taken into account. Since DE is a much more highly paid position than RB across the league, and Avril is coming off his best season, he'll easily command more.

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March 7th, 2012, 3:51 pm
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