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 Cap Space 
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Post Re: Cap Space
So the Mario Williams thing is from a knowledgeable source? If we signed him i would be so excited I'd take this whole board out for a beer.

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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March 12th, 2012, 5:07 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
What team isn't interested in Mario Williams? There is probably at least a quarter of the league if not more that are going to most likely drive his price to a level the Lions won't be able to afford this year or be able to absorb for the next few years. I have a hard time seeing them being able to even retain Tulloch let alone bringing in one of the biggest names in this year's FA pool.


March 12th, 2012, 5:48 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
m2karateman wrote:
Story on cap savings from PFT...

Quote:
Lions get cap relief as Stafford, Suh, Burleson restructure contracts
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 12, 2012, 11:08 AM EDT

With one day to go before the start of the league year, the Lions are still over the salary cap. So they’ve restructured some contracts to change that.

Quarterback Matthew Stafford, defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh and receiver Nate Burleson have all restructured deals. Stafford and Suh surely just converted some of this year’s base salaries into signing bonuses that can be prorated over the rest of their contracts. It’s not clear whether Burleson took less money or simply restructured in the same way.

Suh’s agent, Rosey Barnes, told FOX Sports Detroit that the deal will save the Lions “a significant amount” of cap space. Dave Birkett of the Detroit Free Press notes that Suh’s cap number was scheduled to be $12.8 million, but the Lions can cut that in half by converting his $9.25 million base salary into the league minimum and give him the difference as a signing bonus. Burleson’s deal saved about $2.17 million in cap space. The particulars about Stafford’s deal are not yet known.

The Lions have made clear that they want to work out a new deal with Calvin Johnson to clear up more cap space and get Johnson locked up for years to come, although there have been no reports that Johnson — who is heading into the final year of his rookie contract — is close to agreeing to terms.



That is all good news!!

This is an obvious cap move. It's good for the cap but not so good for Will Heller...


The Detroit News wrote:
March 12, 2012 at 5:42 pm

Lions release veteran tight end Will Heller
By Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

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Veteran tight end Will Heller was released by the Lions on Monday. (Daniel Mears/Detroit News)


Allen Park— The Lions, scrambling to clear space under the salary cap, announced Monday they have released tight end Will Heller.

Heller, a nine-year veteran who spent the last three seasons with the Lions, had a base salary of $900,000 and a salary cap number of $1.18 million for 2012.

He never missed a game in his three seasons in Detroit, starting 22. He had a career year in 2009, catching 29 passes for 296 yards and three touchdowns.

He has been the team's third tight end behind Brandon Pettigrew and Tony Scheffler and primary H-back the last two seasons.

The Lions most likely will take a long look at Nathan Overbay to replace Heller. Overbay, 25, spent last season on the Lions' practice squad. He spent 2010 with Tampa Bay and was on the active roster for two games.


I liked Heller and I'm sorry to see him go; but I get the cap reasons and we can get someone probably as good for less coin. To bad tho.

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March 12th, 2012, 6:01 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
sweetd20 wrote:
What team isn't interested in Mario Williams? There is probably at least a quarter of the league if not more that are going to most likely drive his price to a level the Lions won't be able to afford this year or be able to absorb for the next few years. I have a hard time seeing them being able to even retain Tulloch let alone bringing in one of the biggest names in this year's FA pool.


Tully wants a long-term deal, and "would love to be back" but wants to test the market. He did the same last year and no one was willing to pay. Will it be the same this year? Probably not, but that's the business side of things. Slide Levy back to the middle and grab a weakside lb that can tackle or hope hogue made enough progress.

The 3 restructures should give them 6-7million cap space. Levy was tendered for a 2nd and he's signing it, Hill was tendered for a 4th and since they haven't reached agreement for long-term deal, it lets other teams set the market then they can match later, which gives time to extend both CJ and Cliff.

The Wash/Dallas mistake gave us an extra 1.6, Cutting Heller freed up another 1.2. Suddenly we have about 10 million free before extending CJ and Avril which gives us plenty of room to sign Williams or a few others. Its all going to come down to how much they cost against cap this year. Signing Mario to a deal that's cap friendly this year would still give us room to resign or sign others.


March 12th, 2012, 6:02 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
njroar wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
What team isn't interested in Mario Williams? There is probably at least a quarter of the league if not more that are going to most likely drive his price to a level the Lions won't be able to afford this year or be able to absorb for the next few years. I have a hard time seeing them being able to even retain Tulloch let alone bringing in one of the biggest names in this year's FA pool.


Tully wants a long-term deal, and "would love to be back" but wants to test the market. He did the same last year and no one was willing to pay. Will it be the same this year? Probably not, but that's the business side of things. Slide Levy back to the middle and grab a weakside lb that can tackle or hope hogue made enough progress.

The 3 restructures should give them 6-7million cap space. Levy was tendered for a 2nd and he's signing it, Hill was tendered for a 4th and since they haven't reached agreement for long-term deal, it lets other teams set the market then they can match later, which gives time to extend both CJ and Cliff.

The Wash/Dallas mistake gave us an extra 1.6, Cutting Heller freed up another 1.2. Suddenly we have about 10 million free before extending CJ and Avril which gives us plenty of room to sign Williams or a few others. Its all going to come down to how much they cost against cap this year. Signing Mario to a deal that's cap friendly this year would still give us room to resign or sign others.


Even with your excluding (new) rookie contracts there is no way we can fill LT, CB, MLB, etc with Williams. You have to realize that we are only hoping we are currently 10 million below the cap, but we need multiple starters before we blow 5-10 million on Williams.

I hope Avril is included in or current number. If so we might actually have a chance to resign Tulloch(who i love) and a serviceable CB.


March 12th, 2012, 8:27 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
Landing Mario Williams sounds far-fetched to me. I wonder if the Lions are leaking this info to the media in order to gain leverage with Avril?

If the Lions make a play for Williams, I think it would probably involve trading Avril and unloading his $10M salary to clear cap room. If the Lions can reach a long-term extension with Calvin to reduce his cap charge by an additional $8-10M or so, the possibility of pursuing Williams seems a bit more likely since there could also be room to sign Tulloch and Wright. However, that extension would have to be reached very soon--Williams won't be on the market for long. The other concern I have is the cap hell facing the Lions down the road if they make a big splash like this. The cap will be bigger in 2014 but an extra $20M of space might not be enough for all these guys when those back-loaded deals start escalating!

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March 12th, 2012, 8:59 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
Nearly every city has local reports stating that their team has the inside track on Mario. PFT is reporting that Chicago is the team with the most likelihood of landing him. Bad news for the Lions if they turns out to be true.

We'll see....

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March 12th, 2012, 9:07 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
Quote:
Tully wants a long-term deal, and "would love to be back" but wants to test the market. He did the same last year and no one was willing to pay. Will it be the same this year? Probably not, but that's the business side of things. Slide Levy back to the middle and grab a weakside lb that can tackle or hope hogue made enough progress.

The 3 restructures should give them 6-7million cap space. Levy was tendered for a 2nd and he's signing it, Hill was tendered for a 4th and since they haven't reached agreement for long-term deal, it lets other teams set the market then they can match later, which gives time to extend both CJ and Cliff.

The Wash/Dallas mistake gave us an extra 1.6, Cutting Heller freed up another 1.2. Suddenly we have about 10 million free before extending CJ and Avril which gives us plenty of room to sign Williams or a few others. Its all going to come down to how much they cost against cap this year. Signing Mario to a deal that's cap friendly this year would still give us room to resign or sign others.


levy back to the middle? no thanks im not even all that happy with him back at what seems like a low cost of 2 million. he s not a quality player. heller is a solid player, sad to see him go. though it rarely happens i could see another team coughing up a 4th and signing away sammie hill, or less likely losing hilliard for a 6th rder.


March 12th, 2012, 9:10 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
LioneeR wrote:
njroar wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
What team isn't interested in Mario Williams? There is probably at least a quarter of the league if not more that are going to most likely drive his price to a level the Lions won't be able to afford this year or be able to absorb for the next few years. I have a hard time seeing them being able to even retain Tulloch let alone bringing in one of the biggest names in this year's FA pool.


Tully wants a long-term deal, and "would love to be back" but wants to test the market. He did the same last year and no one was willing to pay. Will it be the same this year? Probably not, but that's the business side of things. Slide Levy back to the middle and grab a weakside lb that can tackle or hope hogue made enough progress.

The 3 restructures should give them 6-7million cap space. Levy was tendered for a 2nd and he's signing it, Hill was tendered for a 4th and since they haven't reached agreement for long-term deal, it lets other teams set the market then they can match later, which gives time to extend both CJ and Cliff.

The Wash/Dallas mistake gave us an extra 1.6, Cutting Heller freed up another 1.2. Suddenly we have about 10 million free before extending CJ and Avril which gives us plenty of room to sign Williams or a few others. Its all going to come down to how much they cost against cap this year. Signing Mario to a deal that's cap friendly this year would still give us room to resign or sign others.


Even with your excluding (new) rookie contracts there is no way we can fill LT, CB, MLB, etc with Williams. You have to realize that we are only hoping we are currently 10 million below the cap, but we need multiple starters before we blow 5-10 million on Williams.

I hope Avril is included in or current number. If so we might actually have a chance to resign Tulloch(who i love) and a serviceable CB.



We're not hoping, we know the number for sure is between 9-11 million under cap now. The cap hits for everything done today was announced when it happened. Suh's had a chance of going up another million. And yes, Avril's 10.6 is counted on the current cap currently. Extending him will free up more this year. CJ counts for 21.1 so extending him is a priority to free up even more. New rookie contracts won't be a lot and you have to remember that only the top 51 contracts count against the cap, so the 1st and 2nd round picks are the only picks that should effect that and not by much.

Mario will probably get a huge contract, but its not going to be cap unfriendly at the start. It will have a ton of guaranteed money but will end up backloaded. Houston makes 3 mil this season, so Wright isn't going to get more than that. Backus won't take much. Tully is best MLB on the market so he's going to test it. What other teams offer will set the market there.


March 12th, 2012, 9:34 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
m2karateman wrote:
Nearly every city has local reports stating that their team has the inside track on Mario. PFT is reporting that Chicago is the team with the most likelihood of landing him. Bad news for the Lions if they turns out to be true.

We'll see....


Man you would think if the Bears were smart, they'd put their money into Forte.

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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March 12th, 2012, 9:53 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
Quote:
CJ counts for 21.1


I see his base salary for this year is about $14 million, but the rest ISNT a signing bonus. What bonus is it?


Also, is guaranteed money the same as signing bonus?

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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March 12th, 2012, 9:56 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
Escalators due to performance. And sorta, yes. The guaranteed money can be spread out all over the cap. If they extend him, they can swap those escalators to guarantees and push it back.


March 12th, 2012, 10:05 pm
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Post Re: Cap Space
What does the restructuring of Stafford's, Suh's, and Burleson's contracts do to the cap in future years? I know we don't have all the info on the restructuring but I would hate to be in this situation again next year. If I remember right Stafford and Burleson restructured last year as well. They can't keep reconstructing every year.

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March 12th, 2012, 10:33 pm
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Post Washington & Dallas LOSE Cap Space / Lions Gain $1.6 Mil
You may want to read this article I posted in "Around The League". It impacts every team.

The Headline is that the Redskins & Cowboys will LOSE cap space and evrybody else gains $1.6 Million. (Except Saints & Raiders).

This is shocking but great for us!!


Washington & Dallas LOSE Cap Space! (Must Read)

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March 13th, 2012, 12:13 am
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Post Re: Cap Space
I have a tough time seeing any big moves that aren't going to crush this team in the future even with the cap expanding by potentially $20 million. The way I see it they need to extend CJ first and foremost and then throw Avril a deal around 7 years/$65 million with a big number in year 4 or 5 where they can then restructure or look to trade or cut him. If they can't get that done get on the phone with a team like the Patriots. Schwartz has ties to Belichick so a deal with them might be likely. The Patriots need a young pass rusher that can fit into a 4-3 and 3-4 looks and Avril might be the perfect fit. They have more than enough cap room and pieces to trade to Detroit. I'd like to see either the #31 pick and McCourty (he's better than his sophmore slump) or #48, #94 and McCourty.

If they can work that deal out, (can't believe I'm going to say this) try to get Backus to sign a two or three year deal at a reasonable price and bring in Anthony Collins. I think Tulloch is going to get priced out of Detroit. There is a bigger need in the FA market for MLBs this year and he's going to cash in this year. Jackson signed for 5/$42.5 million, I'd expect Tulloch to get at least 5/$45 million. If they can't re-sign him they'll have to draft someone and look at a guy like Dan Connor to fill the void.

I'd also go after Marshall to help solidify the secondary, I like Porter but he's not as good as the guy that showed up in the NFC title game and Super Bowl. This is coming from one of the only guys on here that wanted the Lions to draft him. Marshall is solid in coverage and is one of the best CBs in run support and won't break the bank.

I know people want Gaither, Avril, Mario, Tulloch, Finnegan but I just can't see any of that with Stafford and Suh already adjusting their deals twice in the last year. I think Collins can at least step in and upgrade RT with potential to be a LT if Culbreath isn't the future, at the very least he improves the bench. If they can move Avril for one of those deals I mentioned and sign Marshall the secondary potentially becomes a strength instead of a weakness if they can get better S play. Connor might not be the big name Tulloch is but he's solid and if they can get at least one LB in the draft the drop off from Tulloch to Connor shouldn't be that big they can't overcome it. They will have at least an extra 2nd and 3rd rounders. In the draft they could look at Mercilus in the 1st to replace Avril and then possibly get Zeitler with #48 and Kendricks at #54.

I'll expand with this idea later I have to go to work right now.


March 13th, 2012, 8:03 am
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