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 should we cut aaron barry? 
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
This might have already happened, but I would say Schwartz et al. should institute a non-retroactive zero tolerance policy (within the bounds of the CBA, of course). This could include a fall down the depth chart for the first offense, and getting cut for multiple offenses. Whatever they settle on, I would "leak" the details to PFT to help their image around the league.

This way, they could get rid of guys without there being cries of 'double standard.'

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June 27th, 2012, 2:11 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
WJB, you say Schwartz doesnt chew the players out. How do YOU know this? You only see a small fraction of Schwartz.

Dumping him would be the stupidest thing you can do, and u should be embarrassed for coming up with that idea.

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June 27th, 2012, 2:31 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
Fans aren't satisfied when personnel issues are handled behind closed doors--fans have unreasonable expectations and want the team to provide specifics on how players are disciplined. Or, even more comically, fans want coaches to discipline the players right in front of us (on camera!).

Most fans don't realize that the CBA gives disciplinary power to the LEAGUE, not the team, when it comes to substance abuse and personal conduct. Regardless, when teams don't provide information on player sanctions, fans jump to the conclusion that teams aren't doing anything. Consider this: maybe it's none of your business.

Might the Lions cut Berry? As O'Hara points out, it's really the only disciplinary measure the team can take. But as thelomasbrowns points out, cutting Berry would create a double-standard (since LeShoure and Fairley weren't cut). My guess is that the Lions will let the league handle the discipline and let Berry know that he is on a very short leash.

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June 27th, 2012, 2:44 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
kdsberman wrote:
WJB, you say Schwartz doesnt chew the players out. How do YOU know this? You only see a small fraction of Schwartz.

Dumping him would be the stupidest thing you can do, and u should be embarrassed for coming up with that idea.



I see him go into the press conference after the game and make ridiculous excuses for players that deserve to be reemed. That's what I see. I see him act like a classless reject, chasing down Harbaugh after the SF game, I see HIS TEAM go out and act like complete thugs and he complains that the refs made bad calls. That's what I see him do publicly. I don't care if he says anything different behind closed doors, and frankly, I don't care if he does. The fact that he endorses the behavior publicly and that his players behave in a manner consistent with that endorsement is enough for me. You can speculate all you want about what he "might" do elsewhere, I'll judge him based off of what he shows his players and the public.


June 27th, 2012, 3:45 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
WJB, you say Schwartz doesnt chew the players out. How do YOU know this? You only see a small fraction of Schwartz.

Dumping him would be the stupidest thing you can do, and u should be embarrassed for coming up with that idea.



I see him go into the press conference after the game and make ridiculous excuses for players that deserve to be reemed. That's what I see. I see him act like a classless reject, chasing down Harbaugh after the SF game, I see HIS TEAM go out and act like complete thugs and he complains that the refs made bad calls. That's what I see him do publicly. I don't care if he says anything different behind closed doors, and frankly, I don't care if he does. The fact that he endorses the behavior publicly and that his players behave in a manner consistent with that endorsement is enough for me. You can speculate all you want about what he "might" do elsewhere, I'll judge him based off of what he shows his players and the public.


I think you may be right about Schwartz, but the part everyone forgets is who are you going to replace him with? There isn't anyone you can hire that would be a definite upgrade. It's not like they can go out and get Cower and I don't know if he would even be a good fit.


June 27th, 2012, 5:16 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
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I see HIS TEAM go out and act like complete thugs


Im sorry, what? Outside of the Suh Stomp what cheapshots, or general thuggery have i missed?

Now dont get me wrong, they havn't been a bunch of angels waiving their fairy wands and making rainbows out there....but these guys are FOOTBALL PLAYERS. we were not even close to the most penalized team in the league and we didnt have the most personal fouls either.

you want Thugs? be a New Orleans fan. they were one of the LEAST penalized team in the league.
and all this offseason "thuggery" is about 4 guys. out of what...100 counting coaching and UFA? your right WJB what a bunch of rectum hats.


I understand the frustration. i really do. but you go too far. there are so many exciting things about this team right now and you are just about as upset as you were when we were 0-16. lighten up man. if these 4 cant get it together (and to be fair only 2 of em are past the "one time is a mistake" rule) so be it, the team will move on. If they can get it together, AWSOME the team gets better. if ony one or two of em get it together..AWSOME the team gets better and the others have to go. But to act like it's the whole team? You might as well be a niners fan!

And for the record NO you dont fire Barry over his first offense. thats just plain rediculous. If you have never once made a bad judgment call and never made a mistake, feel free to blast 2 out of the 4 guys ( the repeat offenders are a whole different beast). however if your are human like I am....try to relax will ya?

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June 27th, 2012, 5:39 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
Well said RegularJoe, very well said.

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June 27th, 2012, 9:02 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
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Now dont get me wrong, they havn't been a bunch of angels waiving their fairy wands and making rainbows out there....but these guys are FOOTBALL PLAYERS. we were not even close to the most penalized team in the league and we didnt have the most personal fouls either.


i think we were 2nd most penalized in 2010 and 3rd most penalized in 2011


June 27th, 2012, 9:42 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
I just want football to start again so we can talk about stuff on the field instead of off. Ultimately, that's how Schwartz and everyone else will be judged.

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June 27th, 2012, 9:51 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
WJB, you say Schwartz doesnt chew the players out. How do YOU know this? You only see a small fraction of Schwartz.

Dumping him would be the stupidest thing you can do, and u should be embarrassed for coming up with that idea.



I see him go into the press conference after the game and make ridiculous excuses for players that deserve to be reemed. That's what I see. I see him act like a classless reject, chasing down Harbaugh after the SF game, I see HIS TEAM go out and act like complete thugs and he complains that the refs made bad calls. That's what I see him do publicly. I don't care if he says anything different behind closed doors, and frankly, I don't care if he does. The fact that he endorses the behavior publicly and that his players behave in a manner consistent with that endorsement is enough for me. You can speculate all you want about what he "might" do elsewhere, I'll judge him based off of what he shows his players and the public.


I'm sorry, but you are way off base with this. EVERY COACH makes those excuses for his players. And Schwartz blames the referrees because they DESERVE to be ripped. Did you not see some of the poor, disgusting calls AND non-calls, particularly in the regular season game against New Orleans? Suh stomped ED-S in the GB game because he was getting held, punched and kicked all game long. Don't believe me? Go watch the freakin' tape. It's criminal what they were getting away with against Suh. Same in the NO game. At one point, even Cris Collinsworth said 'how can the ref not call that' when Nicks grabbed Suh by the helmet and threw him down. Ref standing right there watching...no call.

Schwartz has NEVER endorsed personal fouls, or illegal plays on the field. He has NEVER endorsed public drunkeness, or drug use. He even apologized for the Harbaugh incident, even though I think he had a justifiable reason for doing it (though I do think he should have handled it differently). His job is not to make YOU feel like he's doing the right thing with these players. So what he does or says behind closed doors SHOULD matter to you. If he is telling them in the privacy of the locker room that their actions won't be tolerated, then that is him doing the right thing. This doesn't need to be aired in the media. His job for YOU is to make this team win football games, bottom line. And ten wins is something we haven't seen around these parts in a while. So if that isn't good enough for you, then what the Hell are you doing claiming to be a fan? I don't like the BS going on off the field, and don't like some of the crap going on during the games that are pure mental mistakes. But in the end, those mistakes fall squarely on the players. These guys are PROFESSIONAL football players. They aren't new to the game, so they know the rules. And I HIGHLY doubt Schwartz or any other coach is telling them to break those rules in hopes it leads to victory. These so called men, who like to thump their chests and talk about how good they are should be the ones you are directing your disgust at, not Schwartz. Do I think he might be able to do more? Perhaps....but outside of cutting them from the team, or not allowing them to play during the season, I don't know that he can do much more.

And knowing you, if he cut the players and the Lions didn't do well, you'd complain about him cutting the players, and how Schwartz was completely wrong for doing it.

I've come to the conclusion, that if Schwartz invented the cure for cancer, you complain about how he took away jobs from the medical community. You just flat out don't like the guy, never have.

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June 27th, 2012, 10:45 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Again, I don't think Schwartz/Mayhew have control over this team, and I don't think they discipline and educate their players properly. This crap doesn't happen on the Giants, Patriots, etc. Tennesee was a notorious "thug" team when Schwartz was down there, and he brought that garbage up here with him.

Like I said, IMO Schwartz may be the guy to get us close, but we may have to bring someone else in to get us over the hump. I don't like the leadership he exudes by example, and I don't like his sideline BS. I don't like that he fails to "get it" in press conferences after games and makes excuses for his players, and I don't like that he doesn't chew his players out when they do something stupid.

I'm happy that the pair made the team better, but it may be time for some real professionals to come in and take the reigns.

jim schwartz is not his dad. im amazed you placed no blame on the player who got behind the wheel drunk.

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June 28th, 2012, 2:38 am
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
The Detroit News wrote:
June 27, 2012 at 7:12 pm

Aaron Berry's arrest points to Lions' desperate need for accountability

Bob Wojnowski



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The arrest of Aaron Berry, left, was the Lions' sixth of the offseason. (Daniel Mears/Detroit News)


In a sad, painful way, the Lions are learning that words and warnings don't work. Their off-field offseason has been a disaster, and if there's an easy remedy, they have no idea what it is.

Obviously, the team's message isn't getting through, which is an indictment of clueless, selfish players. It's also becoming an indictment of the Lions, who just chalked up another arrest and could face NFL financial penalties because of the repeated nonsense.

Cornerback Aaron Berry was charged with DUI and other offenses in Pennsylvania, marking the sixth arrest involving four Lions players this offseason. Mikel Leshoure and Nick Fairley rang up two each and Johnny Culbreath kicked off the festivities in January when he was charged with marijuana possession.

It's ridiculous and confounding, and this is where we're supposed to demand GM Martin Mayhew and coach Jim Schwartz discipline players much, much harsher. OK, sounds simple enough. But didn't that already happen when the NFL suspended Leshoure two games and docked him four weeks' pay? In the collective bargaining agreement, the NFL, not the team, suspends players, and that was a strong act of discipline, right?

It apparently had no impact on Berry. It didn't stop him from allegedly driving while drunk and hitting parked cars before getting arrested early last Saturday morning. So what's the next move? Can the league really suspend a player longer because too many teammates screwed up first?

Cutting the player is an option, although uncommon for non-violent charges. The Lions could consider releasing Berry, who previously exhibited a lack of control when he blasted fans on Twitter after playing poorly in the playoff loss to the Saints. Based on the spate of arrests, the Lions could justify different punishment for different players, saying Berry was warned like everyone else and still screwed up.

Schwartz needs to try some different tack, although an example-making, PR move wouldn't necessarily fix anything. If he cuts Berry, will that change player behavior? Leshoure will lose 25 percent of his 2012 pay and that didn't seem to scare anyone.

Releasing a player is one way to remove a specific problem, but it stirs all sorts of other issues. There are salary cap implications, and the relative importance of Berry, Leshoure and Fairley, each in the mix for a starting job. And yes, that matters. Berry has been praised lavishly by defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham and was expected to be a key player at a position of need.

Just when the Lions are poised for title contention, they're shaken by absolute foolishness. What a mess, and once again, the bulk of blame lands directly on immature players. Don't let them hide behind some vague notion of institutional passiveness. The Lions have to address the issue, to be sure, but every incident happened outside their control.

That doesn't absolve Mayhew and Schwartz because clearly there's a reckless aggressiveness they seek in players. It's reflected in positive ways with the team's on-field feistiness, and negative ways with dumb penalties, sloppy discipline and an apparent penchant for using marijuana and abusing alcohol.

Berry issued an apology Tuesday and team officials released a statement using phrases such as "extremely disappointed" and "we have strongly and repeatedly emphasized the need to be accountable." Tough words that loosely translate to, "Enough is enough! We're not kidding this time!" Does it mean anything? Not really.

I don't know what would have an impact. Dunce caps? Wind sprints at 5 a.m.? Players' lockers moved to a practice-field tool shed?

Character questions

Listen. You should not, as a fan, expect complete lawfulness by every member of an NFL team. It's a brutal sport played by tough men. But you are allowed to expect slightly fewer than six offseason arrests.

This is a preposterous stretch, and if it was during the season, there'd be nasty questions about the Lions leadership, from management to coaches to players. But who's supposed to be leading Berry when he's attending a charity event in Harrisburg, Pa.? Couldn't he be counted on to display personal responsibility?

We're going to hear a lot about personal responsibility as the Lions prepare for training camp at the end of July. Character is an issue now, and the team can't deny it. Players are responsible for their own behavior, and no one should let them off the hook.

But management and coaches are in charge of the Lions reputation, and it's getting scorched.

Once again, words didn't work, and Berry will pay the appropriate price. The Lions are paying, too, and it's time they reevaluate the type of players they're paying.

Offseason arrests

A breakdown of all six offseason arrests by Lions players:

Aaron Berry, CB

Arrested last Saturday in Harrisburg, Pa., and charged with driving under the influence of alcohol, causing damage to an unattended vehicle or property, and failure to stop and give information to law enforcement.

Nick Fairley, DT

Charged with marijuana possession and DUI in separate incidents April 3 and May 27 in Mobile, Ala.

Mikel Leshoure, RB

Cited twice for marijuana possession Feb. 18 and March 12 in southwestern Michigan.

Johnny Culbreath, OT

Charged Jan. 23 in Orangeburg County, S.C. with marijuana possession.


From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2012 ... z1z53aAGoX



This has already been said but the problem is that if you want to fire Berry then you need to be prepared to fire a more meaningful player if it happens again. Because if you don't then then you're not setting the example you really want / intend.

Even though this is the same player that tweeted, "...The fans can get back to their miserable lives." (or something to that effect) I'm not ready to dump him. Only because I'm not ready to dump Stafford either (for example) if he got busted for a DUI.

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June 28th, 2012, 6:05 am
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
Here's an idea that apparently, no-one has mentioned to Lions Players.

When going out for a night on the town,

TAKE A STINKING TAXI YOU MORONS!!!!!!

This way, you can't be arrested for driving drunk and wrecking a bunch of parked cars.

This way the worst that will happen is that you are mistaken for Ron White and get arrested for being drunk in PUBLIC!

Which is way more acceptable than DUI.


June 28th, 2012, 11:54 pm
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
BillySims wrote:
Here's an idea that apparently, no-one has mentioned to Lions Players.

When going out for a night on the town,

TAKE A STINKING TAXI YOU MORONS!!!!!!

This way, you can't be arrested for driving drunk and wrecking a bunch of parked cars.

This way the worst that will happen is that you are mistaken for Ron White and get arrested for being drunk in PUBLIC!

Which is way more acceptable than DUI.


I think a lot of these took place in rural areas, which probably means there are no taxis around, but your point is still well taken.

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June 29th, 2012, 8:46 am
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Post Re: should we cut aaron barry?
regularjoe12 wrote:
Quote:
I see HIS TEAM go out and act like complete thugs


Im sorry, what? Outside of the Suh Stomp what cheapshots, or general thuggery have i missed?

Now dont get me wrong, they havn't been a bunch of angels waiving their fairy wands and making rainbows out there....but these guys are FOOTBALL PLAYERS. we were not even close to the most penalized team in the league and we didnt have the most personal fouls either.

you want Thugs? be a New Orleans fan. they were one of the LEAST penalized team in the league.
and all this offseason "thuggery" is about 4 guys. out of what...100 counting coaching and UFA? your right WJB what a bunch of rectum hats.


I understand the frustration. i really do. but you go too far. there are so many exciting things about this team right now and you are just about as upset as you were when we were 0-16. lighten up man. if these 4 cant get it together (and to be fair only 2 of em are past the "one time is a mistake" rule) so be it, the team will move on. If they can get it together, AWSOME the team gets better. if ony one or two of em get it together..AWSOME the team gets better and the others have to go. But to act like it's the whole team? You might as well be a niners fan!

And for the record NO you dont fire Barry over his first offense. thats just plain rediculous. If you have never once made a bad judgment call and never made a mistake, feel free to blast 2 out of the 4 guys ( the repeat offenders are a whole different beast). however if your are human like I am....try to relax will ya?



Suh Stomp, loads of penalties (like Legend said, 3rd most penalized team in the League!), Titus ref shove, his classless act (and embarrassing act) of chasing down Harbaugh, our constant whining and bitching about "bad calls"... Good teams get over them, we cry and whine, which doesn't fair well with refs and gets us MORE penalties... The list goes on... They're undisciplined, period.

And no where do I say we should cut Berry...




m2karateman wrote:
I'm sorry, but you are way off base with this. EVERY COACH makes those excuses for his players. And Schwartz blames the referrees because they DESERVE to be ripped. Did you not see some of the poor, disgusting calls AND non-calls, particularly in the regular season game against New Orleans? Suh stomped ED-S in the GB game because he was getting held, punched and kicked all game long. Don't believe me? Go watch the freakin' tape. It's criminal what they were getting away with against Suh. Same in the NO game. At one point, even Cris Collinsworth said 'how can the ref not call that' when Nicks grabbed Suh by the helmet and threw him down. Ref standing right there watching...no call.

Schwartz has NEVER endorsed personal fouls, or illegal plays on the field. He has NEVER endorsed public drunkeness, or drug use. He even apologized for the Harbaugh incident, even though I think he had a justifiable reason for doing it (though I do think he should have handled it differently). His job is not to make YOU feel like he's doing the right thing with these players. So what he does or says behind closed doors SHOULD matter to you. If he is telling them in the privacy of the locker room that their actions won't be tolerated, then that is him doing the right thing. This doesn't need to be aired in the media. His job for YOU is to make this team win football games, bottom line. And ten wins is something we haven't seen around these parts in a while. So if that isn't good enough for you, then what the Hell are you doing claiming to be a fan? I don't like the BS going on off the field, and don't like some of the crap going on during the games that are pure mental mistakes. But in the end, those mistakes fall squarely on the players. These guys are PROFESSIONAL football players. They aren't new to the game, so they know the rules. And I HIGHLY doubt Schwartz or any other coach is telling them to break those rules in hopes it leads to victory. These so called men, who like to thump their chests and talk about how good they are should be the ones you are directing your disgust at, not Schwartz. Do I think he might be able to do more? Perhaps....but outside of cutting them from the team, or not allowing them to play during the season, I don't know that he can do much more.

And knowing you, if he cut the players and the Lions didn't do well, you'd complain about him cutting the players, and how Schwartz was completely wrong for doing it.

I've come to the conclusion, that if Schwartz invented the cure for cancer, you complain about how he took away jobs from the medical community. You just flat out don't like the guy, never have.


BULLISHT! "All coaches" don't go out there and make excuses. I see Billicheck, Cower, Coughlin, etc. go out there and say "THAT WAS STUPID, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED, IT WAS AN EMBARRASSMENT, AND THAT'S NOW HOW THE GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED." Other coaches don't tolerate it. Other coaches bench players for a series, a quarter, a 1/2 or even a whole game for acting like that. Nope, not Schwartz, he goes on national TV and ENDORSES the bullisht! He spoke of Suh's stomp as if it were "just an accident" as if Suh was just "getting up," which everyone knew was garbage. He spoke out against the refs and said that they made bad calls and unfair calls, GET YOUR DAMN TEAM TOGETHER JACKASS! Have them stop committing so many penalties and we won't get called for so many.

He had the same reputation in Tenn., and he's bringing it here. He's stated that he wants to "play nasty" and he's doing it, and then complaining about the calls later. It's stupid. New England doesn't play the game that way, neither does GB. Hell, even N.O. WITH their bounty program was penalized less than us, and IMO, rightfully so!

That I never liked the guy is just a flat out lie. I loved the signing when we inked him. I thought he was a good hire. It was when he started talking about "playing nasty" and his influence on Suh, penalties, Schwartz's own thuggish behavior, etc. is what made me fall out of favor with him. I started complaining about it before it got bad, and it kind of came to a head in the GB game last year with the ref push and the Suh stomp. That's just flat out ridiculous, and looking at his leadership I see why the team acts that way. He's a snide punk, and he acts like a self-righteous jackass, and he passes that "entitlement" culture that the "refs are against us" onto the team. The good coaches, the ones that win SB's, don't do that.


Last edited by wjb21ndtown on June 29th, 2012, 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



June 29th, 2012, 2:31 pm
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