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 Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this? 
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
m2karateman wrote:
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I'd like to see us get away from the Wide 9, and see what that does to his stats. If he can get 9+ sacks per year in a conventional D scheme that also stops the run, I'm all for giving him a long-term deal. Until then I think he's easily replaceable with a second round pick or current talent on the team, period. Let someone else over pay him.


Until we can be confident in the safeties making tackles, switching to a 4-3 as our base defense would be a great idea, and still using some wide 9 and 5-2 on 3rd downs would help.


You better include linebackers in there. It's the OLBs that are supposed to fill the gaps left off tackle by the Wide 9 set. Most of the time last year, they didn't get it done. Safeties in the Detroit defense are support, not first line run stoppers, like the linebackers. While I agree our safeties need to be better in their tackling, our linebackers need to step up their game as well.


True. I remember that SF game, our LBs got destroyed on wham plays twice.

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July 24th, 2012, 1:49 pm
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
m2karateman wrote:
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I'd like to see us get away from the Wide 9, and see what that does to his stats. If he can get 9+ sacks per year in a conventional D scheme that also stops the run, I'm all for giving him a long-term deal. Until then I think he's easily replaceable with a second round pick or current talent on the team, period. Let someone else over pay him.


Until we can be confident in the safeties making tackles, switching to a 4-3 as our base defense would be a great idea, and still using some wide 9 and 5-2 on 3rd downs would help.


You better include linebackers in there. It's the OLBs that are supposed to fill the gaps left off tackle by the Wide 9 set. Most of the time last year, they didn't get it done. Safeties in the Detroit defense are support, not first line run stoppers, like the linebackers. While I agree our safeties need to be better in their tackling, our linebackers need to step up their game as well.


I agree on both accounts.

IMO it's a perfect situation. I think we screwed ourselves by so heavily relying on the Wide 9 last year, and, IMO it helped Avril inflate his stats beyond what they should have been. I think going to a more basic 4-3 would help the LBs and safeties, and be a benefit to the team. I think the wide 9 should be used most 3rd and longs, and it should also be used as sort of a "change up" or change of pace randomly throughout the game - a wrinkle or a gamble that's sort of a 1/2 step between blitzing and playing a base defense.

If Avril still puts up monster numbers, go ahead and give him his due. If he drops to 6-8 sacks, at least we know what we have and what he's worth (and IMO it's less than $10 mill per).


July 24th, 2012, 2:45 pm
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I'd like to see us get away from the Wide 9, and see what that does to his stats. If he can get 9+ sacks per year in a conventional D scheme that also stops the run, I'm all for giving him a long-term deal. Until then I think he's easily replaceable with a second round pick or current talent on the team, period. Let someone else over pay him.


Until we can be confident in the safeties making tackles, switching to a 4-3 as our base defense would be a great idea, and still using some wide 9 and 5-2 on 3rd downs would help.


You better include linebackers in there. It's the OLBs that are supposed to fill the gaps left off tackle by the Wide 9 set. Most of the time last year, they didn't get it done. Safeties in the Detroit defense are support, not first line run stoppers, like the linebackers. While I agree our safeties need to be better in their tackling, our linebackers need to step up their game as well.


I agree on both accounts.

IMO it's a perfect situation. I think we screwed ourselves by so heavily relying on the Wide 9 last year, and, IMO it helped Avril inflate his stats beyond what they should have been. I think going to a more basic 4-3 would help the LBs and safeties, and be a benefit to the team. I think the wide 9 should be used most 3rd and longs, and it should also be used as sort of a "change up" or change of pace randomly throughout the game - a wrinkle or a gamble that's sort of a 1/2 step between blitzing and playing a base defense.

If Avril still puts up monster numbers, go ahead and give him his due. If he drops to 6-8 sacks, at least we know what we have and what he's worth (and IMO it's less than $10 mill per).


We don't agree fully on many things, but I am in 100% agreement with this.

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July 25th, 2012, 10:51 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
Guys, I think Mayhew made a genius move by re-signing Avril, more-so to a franchise tag. This is why I think it was such a damn good move. Willie Young is an up-and-coming DE, but consistency is still a bit of a problem for him, and that's common for 7th round picks, and this is a reason Cliff coming back was a great move. Not only is Avril a seasoned veteran, but though Willie Young is very talented, Avril will start all next year, and maybe not necessarily because he's better than WY, but so he can cover up WY's potential so WY can't ask for a huge paycheck when we resign him next offseason. If he started this year, we all know he'd have a good season, which would help, but he'd ask for a BIG paycheck and we'd be in the same situation as we were with Avril. So, Willie will be more than ready to start and be consistent next offseason, and likely sign for $3-5 million a year on a new contract, which will allow us to let Avril go and sign either a strong safety or cornerback to solidify our defense. Our defensive line won't take a step back, and might even be better, and our secondary would be very secure. Let me know what you guys think.

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August 21st, 2012, 2:00 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
Shotty wrote:
Guys, I think Mayhew made a genius move by re-signing Avril, more-so to a franchise tag. This is why I think it was such a damn good move. Willie Young is an up-and-coming DE, but consistency is still a bit of a problem for him, and that's common for 7th round picks, and this is a reason Cliff coming back was a great move. Not only is Avril a seasoned veteran, but though Willie Young is very talented, Avril will start all next year, and maybe not necessarily because he's better than WY, but so he can cover up WY's potential so WY can't ask for a huge paycheck when we resign him next offseason. If he started this year, we all know he'd have a good season, which would help, but he'd ask for a BIG paycheck and we'd be in the same situation as we were with Avril. So, Willie will be more than ready to start and be consistent next offseason, and likely sign for $3-5 million a year on a new contract, which will allow us to let Avril go and sign either a strong safety or cornerback to solidify our defense. Our defensive line won't take a step back, and might even be better, and our secondary would be very secure. Let me know what you guys think.


I agree with you Shotty. For me, its really hard to argue with any move Mayhew does considering how good of a job hes done. As far as signing a strong safety - Definitely. But man, the Delmas' career has been and I dont mean anything bad by this, but a RELIABLE free safety wouldnt hurt neither.

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August 21st, 2012, 8:33 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
kdsberman wrote:
Shotty wrote:
Guys, I think Mayhew made a genius move by re-signing Avril, more-so to a franchise tag. This is why I think it was such a damn good move. Willie Young is an up-and-coming DE, but consistency is still a bit of a problem for him, and that's common for 7th round picks, and this is a reason Cliff coming back was a great move. Not only is Avril a seasoned veteran, but though Willie Young is very talented, Avril will start all next year, and maybe not necessarily because he's better than WY, but so he can cover up WY's potential so WY can't ask for a huge paycheck when we resign him next offseason. If he started this year, we all know he'd have a good season, which would help, but he'd ask for a BIG paycheck and we'd be in the same situation as we were with Avril. So, Willie will be more than ready to start and be consistent next offseason, and likely sign for $3-5 million a year on a new contract, which will allow us to let Avril go and sign either a strong safety or cornerback to solidify our defense. Our defensive line won't take a step back, and might even be better, and our secondary would be very secure. Let me know what you guys think.


I agree with you Shotty. For me, its really hard to argue with any move Mayhew does considering how good of a job hes done. As far as signing a strong safety - Definitely. But man, the Delmas' career has been and I dont mean anything bad by this, but a RELIABLE free safety wouldnt hurt neither.


I understand what you're saying. IMO, Delmas will be on PUP to start the season and return for week 6. I'd call Eric Coleman reliable as of now. He lost 9lb in the offseason to gain speed, and has more experience than any safety on the team. I think he'll hold things down until Delmas returns. Another big surprise has been John Wendling. He has seriously looked like a starter lately, breaking up passes, making the tackles, being in good position almost all the time, and he even got a sack. I'd much rather have him, because even though he doesn't have Amari's speed, he can make tackles, which Amari can't seem to do.

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August 21st, 2012, 8:52 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
delmas cant be placed on PUP


August 21st, 2012, 9:11 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
The Legend wrote:
delmas cant be placed on PUP


My mistake. Can you please explain this to me? I don't really understand how the PUP list works. Is it only for those not cleared to practice once the season starts?

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August 21st, 2012, 10:01 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
Shotty wrote:
The Legend wrote:
delmas cant be placed on PUP


My mistake. Can you please explain this to me? I don't really understand how the PUP list works. Is it only for those not cleared to practice once the season starts?


If I'm not mistaken, any player that participates in training camp cannot be placed on the PUP list. If they are unable to play from before camp and never take part in practice then they can be placed on PUP, like Jahvid Best.

Delmas would have to remain on the 53 man roster if he's expected to return. If not, they'd have to put him on IR, or waive him.

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August 21st, 2012, 10:41 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
Shotty wrote:
Guys, I think Mayhew made a genius move by re-signing Avril, more-so to a franchise tag. This is why I think it was such a damn good move. Willie Young is an up-and-coming DE, but consistency is still a bit of a problem for him, and that's common for 7th round picks, and this is a reason Cliff coming back was a great move. Not only is Avril a seasoned veteran, but though Willie Young is very talented, Avril will start all next year, and maybe not necessarily because he's better than WY, but so he can cover up WY's potential so WY can't ask for a huge paycheck when we resign him next offseason. If he started this year, we all know he'd have a good season, which would help, but he'd ask for a BIG paycheck and we'd be in the same situation as we were with Avril. So, Willie will be more than ready to start and be consistent next offseason, and likely sign for $3-5 million a year on a new contract, which will allow us to let Avril go and sign either a strong safety or cornerback to solidify our defense. Our defensive line won't take a step back, and might even be better, and our secondary would be very secure. Let me know what you guys think.


A genius move? I wouldn't go so far as to call it that. When it comes down to it, Mayhew had two options. Either he traded Avril, or he put the tag on him. Allowing him to leave as a free agent wasn't really an option.

The real genius of Mayhew was in not giving in to Avril's contract demands. It would have been something that Millen would have done, ie. sign him at any cost. Mayhew has set some pretty reasonable ceilings on contracts and trades. He sets a max amount, and won't go beyond....like when they wanted to move up and get Patrick Peterson in 2011. Arizona wanted more than what Mayhew was willing to give, and he didn't budge. That's his real strongpoint. His negotiating skills are strong.

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August 21st, 2012, 10:45 am
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