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 Victor Cruz 
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Nothing you ever outline makes the contract bad, you always just say what you think the Lions will do and say the contract is bad because Mayhew will make the wrong decision. You being right about Mayhew still doesn't make the contract bad, it just gives more proof that they need a new GM. The contract leaves a lot of leverage for the Lions come next season and that's a good contract.

Ed Reeds leadership is not worth 6M+/yr. He doesn't fit the defense, so leadership and a shadow of the old ed reed playing out of position is all you were going to get from him. He also spends most of the season on the trainers table and in games playing hindered by injuries now due to his age.

This was Young's second season of actual game time, he had a promising season in 2011 and slumped in 2012. Its not odd at all for a player to slump their sophomore season. His $2M deal isn't a huge overpayment and they got to keep one of their few prospects that has shown anything.


That's like saying a nuclear bomb isn't bad, but it can be bad in the hands of Kim Jon Un....

Mayhew is going to be the one executing the contract through its entirety, thus, it is a bad deal... If we fire him and pick up a new Gm, I'll change my position on Delmas' contract, and I guaranty you the handling of Delmas' deal would be different under different administration. Under a competent administration, there is no way Delmas sees more than $4.5M next year, unless he's healthy for 16 games, AND plays like a damn all-star. Mayhew doesn't have those type of stones to negotiate that deal, without getting hosed.

Young's deal was flat our ridiculous. He may be a "prospect" but he isn't young. He'll be 28 this September, he isn't likely going to get any better at his position. I wouldn't have minded signing him to a 3 year, min salary that capped him at around $1M this year (or less) and allowed to cut him with little to no consequence (Max $500k cap hit next year). Anything more than that is flat out ridiculous, including the $2M he's currently fleecing us for.


Just a few points, Delmas' contract is largely based on how many games he plays. The VERY MOST he can make over 2 years is $8,590,000 ( http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/louis-delmas/ ). On top of that, the 49ers were chasing him, so a sense of urgency was needed. We couldn't just sit around and wait and risk him leaving us with 1 good safety and no true depth. The Giants, IMO, have the best front office in the league (by far) and they gave Antrel Rolle $7 mill a year for five years, and I think Delmas is better when 100% healthy.

About WY, why not pay him $2M for 1 year? It's a prove it or leave year for him and he was a restricted FA. Had we not resigned him, I don't think it would've made much difference as to if we could sign another sought-after FA. Freeney is the only guy I can think of, and we can still get him if he'll take something like 2 years, $12, maybe 13 million.


I really don't see your point about Delmas' contract.

Willie Young is a backup DE with moderate amounts of "potential" (very little upside at 28 years old, with a career total of something like 3.5 sacks in 3 years). He's a depth player at best, and he's not worth $2M a year, period.


My point about Delmas' contract is he won't actually be making $4.5 mill a year unless he plays 42% of the snaps of every game. If he's the china doll you think he is, he'll barely make anything as he's never healthy.

When we have no quality depth at DE, I see nothing at all wrong with paying a 3-year player $2 million when you can release him mid-season, and you still have $10 million after giving him that contract. I think he was one of the worst backup DEs I have seen in a long time last year, so in no way do I like him much as a player, but I'd rather give him $2M than let him go.



That makes one of us... For $2M we could have signed a quality FA. Hell Durant signed for less... I would have rather had a quality FA at any position, and drafted Young's replacement than pay Young $2M. It's not a good use of resources, no matter how you try to spin it.


I am still at a loss regarding the Durant situation, and am furious at Mayhew for it. One more thing is that if Mayhew waited, he could've offered Michael Bennett lots of $$$, something like $8.5 million a year (and well-deserved, he's phenomenal against the run and a growing pass-rusher) allowing WY to go and making the DE position less of a worry for years to come.

The only reason I don't HATE the signing of WY for 2M is because we are in dire need of a good DE or two, and maybe, just maybe, Willie can be that guy. Time will tell.

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April 10th, 2013, 2:20 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
There is no telling what happened with Durant. I have a hard time seeing us not offering what Dallas did if we wanted him, OR if he wanted to stay.

to me it looks like he wanted to go elsewhere and we would have had to overpay him to stay. he's not good enough to over pay.

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April 10th, 2013, 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Nothing you ever outline makes the contract bad, you always just say what you think the Lions will do and say the contract is bad because Mayhew will make the wrong decision. You being right about Mayhew still doesn't make the contract bad, it just gives more proof that they need a new GM. The contract leaves a lot of leverage for the Lions come next season and that's a good contract.

Ed Reeds leadership is not worth 6M+/yr. He doesn't fit the defense, so leadership and a shadow of the old ed reed playing out of position is all you were going to get from him. He also spends most of the season on the trainers table and in games playing hindered by injuries now due to his age.

This was Young's second season of actual game time, he had a promising season in 2011 and slumped in 2012. Its not odd at all for a player to slump their sophomore season. His $2M deal isn't a huge overpayment and they got to keep one of their few prospects that has shown anything.


That's like saying a nuclear bomb isn't bad, but it can be bad in the hands of Kim Jon Un....

Mayhew is going to be the one executing the contract through its entirety, thus, it is a bad deal... If we fire him and pick up a new Gm, I'll change my position on Delmas' contract, and I guaranty you the handling of Delmas' deal would be different under different administration. Under a competent administration, there is no way Delmas sees more than $4.5M next year, unless he's healthy for 16 games, AND plays like a damn all-star. Mayhew doesn't have those type of stones to negotiate that deal, without getting hosed.

Young's deal was flat our ridiculous. He may be a "prospect" but he isn't young. He'll be 28 this September, he isn't likely going to get any better at his position. I wouldn't have minded signing him to a 3 year, min salary that capped him at around $1M this year (or less) and allowed to cut him with little to no consequence (Max $500k cap hit next year). Anything more than that is flat out ridiculous, including the $2M he's currently fleecing us for.


Your analogy is more ridiculous than Young's contract. There is virtually no guaranteed money on the contract if at any point it becomes a hindrance it can be cut for almost no loss. The contract posses no danger to the Lions, the only way it becomes an issue is if Mayhew goes back in and changes it to something bad.

The deal was obviously created as a one year deal and Mayhew has shown he has no problem cutting players or letting them go in his 4 years for the Lions. 2012 was the only year they haven't had changes to the personnel and he admitted it was a mistake.

Young's not fleecing them he can still be cut if they are able to sign someone better(which I don't think is difficult), so they still have a lot of control and the off season is still very early. Mayhew could also still just use the current market to pressure Young into signing a more team friendly long term deal, but I don't think that would be something that would happen until after the draft is over.


My reference about the contract being bad was in reference to Delmas, which was a continuation of or prior discussion. I figured you'd pick that up by the multi year discussion.

Young is fleecing the Lions if he plays the whole year on that deal. He's not worth $2M to this team.


Sorry, I was referring to the Delmas contract in that first line but forgot to break it off from that part about your analogy which is still absurd.


April 10th, 2013, 4:02 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
rao wrote:
My reference about the contract being bad was in reference to Delmas, which was a continuation of or prior discussion. I figured you'd pick that up by the multi year discussion.

Young is fleecing the Lions if he plays the whole year on that deal. He's not worth $2M to this team.


Sorry, I was referring to the Delmas contract in that first line but forgot to break it off from that part about your analogy which is still absurd.[/quote]

No, you can't say that:
1) It's not the contract, it's the GM that's bad when;
2) The GM that's bad is going to be the one seeing the contract through.

The contract isn't bad for 2013, but it is horrible for 2014, and I don't trust Mayhew at all to mitigate the damage caused by writing the poor deal. I don't wish ill will on anyone, but the only way I see this working out in the Lions favor is if Delmas misses significant time due to a significant injury.


April 10th, 2013, 4:06 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My reference about the contract being bad was in reference to Delmas, which was a continuation of or prior discussion. I figured you'd pick that up by the multi year discussion.

Young is fleecing the Lions if he plays the whole year on that deal. He's not worth $2M to this team.


Sorry, I was referring to the Delmas contract in that first line but forgot to break it off from that part about your analogy which is still absurd.


No, you can't say that:
1) It's not the contract, it's the GM that's bad when;
2) The GM that's bad is going to be the one seeing the contract through.

The contract isn't bad for 2013, but it is horrible for 2014, and I don't trust Mayhew at all to mitigate the damage caused by writing the poor deal. I don't wish ill will on anyone, but the only way I see this working out in the Lions favor is if Delmas misses significant time due to a significant injury.


The contract isn't horrible for 2014 since it can be cut for only $500K. Even if god forbid Delmas plays lights out for a full season his 2014 cap number will be less than the franchise tag and they will be able to work out a long term deal(I wouldn't), let him play out the year and franchise him if he has another great season, or trade him.

What will also change things is if the Lions draft another safety and that safety shows starter ability. If that happens it'll be even more likely they drop Delmas next season without even a second look.


April 10th, 2013, 4:36 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My reference about the contract being bad was in reference to Delmas, which was a continuation of or prior discussion. I figured you'd pick that up by the multi year discussion.

Young is fleecing the Lions if he plays the whole year on that deal. He's not worth $2M to this team.


Sorry, I was referring to the Delmas contract in that first line but forgot to break it off from that part about your analogy which is still absurd.


No, you can't say that:
1) It's not the contract, it's the GM that's bad when;
2) The GM that's bad is going to be the one seeing the contract through.

The contract isn't bad for 2013, but it is horrible for 2014, and I don't trust Mayhew at all to mitigate the damage caused by writing the poor deal. I don't wish ill will on anyone, but the only way I see this working out in the Lions favor is if Delmas misses significant time due to a significant injury.


The contract isn't horrible for 2014 since it can be cut for only $500K. Even if god forbid Delmas plays lights out for a full season his 2014 cap number will be less than the franchise tag and they will be able to work out a long term deal(I wouldn't), let him play out the year and franchise him if he has another great season, or trade him.

What will also change things is if the Lions draft another safety and that safety shows starter ability. If that happens it'll be even more likely they drop Delmas next season without even a second look.


That'll never happen. I already predicted how the contract situation will turn out... Like I said, time will tell. Mayhew doesn't have the stones to cut or properly workout a deal for 2014 with Delmas. That's the bottom line.


April 10th, 2013, 4:45 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My reference about the contract being bad was in reference to Delmas, which was a continuation of or prior discussion. I figured you'd pick that up by the multi year discussion.

Young is fleecing the Lions if he plays the whole year on that deal. He's not worth $2M to this team.


Sorry, I was referring to the Delmas contract in that first line but forgot to break it off from that part about your analogy which is still absurd.


No, you can't say that:
1) It's not the contract, it's the GM that's bad when;
2) The GM that's bad is going to be the one seeing the contract through.

The contract isn't bad for 2013, but it is horrible for 2014, and I don't trust Mayhew at all to mitigate the damage caused by writing the poor deal. I don't wish ill will on anyone, but the only way I see this working out in the Lions favor is if Delmas misses significant time due to a significant injury.


The contract isn't horrible for 2014 since it can be cut for only $500K. Even if god forbid Delmas plays lights out for a full season his 2014 cap number will be less than the franchise tag and they will be able to work out a long term deal(I wouldn't), let him play out the year and franchise him if he has another great season, or trade him.

What will also change things is if the Lions draft another safety and that safety shows starter ability. If that happens it'll be even more likely they drop Delmas next season without even a second look.


That'll never happen. I already predicted how the contract situation will turn out... Like I said, time will tell. Mayhew doesn't have the stones to cut or properly workout a deal for 2014 with Delmas. That's the bottom line.


Mayhew seemed to be fine letting Hanson and Avril walk this season. He cut KVB, their only leader on the defensive line. He got pay cuts from Raiola and Burleson. Mayhew doesn't have a problem making tough decisions or dropping players. He just has a problem determining good personnel from bad personnel.


April 10th, 2013, 5:06 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My reference about the contract being bad was in reference to Delmas, which was a continuation of or prior discussion. I figured you'd pick that up by the multi year discussion.

Young is fleecing the Lions if he plays the whole year on that deal. He's not worth $2M to this team.


Sorry, I was referring to the Delmas contract in that first line but forgot to break it off from that part about your analogy which is still absurd.


No, you can't say that:
1) It's not the contract, it's the GM that's bad when;
2) The GM that's bad is going to be the one seeing the contract through.

The contract isn't bad for 2013, but it is horrible for 2014, and I don't trust Mayhew at all to mitigate the damage caused by writing the poor deal. I don't wish ill will on anyone, but the only way I see this working out in the Lions favor is if Delmas misses significant time due to a significant injury.


The contract isn't horrible for 2014 since it can be cut for only $500K. Even if god forbid Delmas plays lights out for a full season his 2014 cap number will be less than the franchise tag and they will be able to work out a long term deal(I wouldn't), let him play out the year and franchise him if he has another great season, or trade him.

What will also change things is if the Lions draft another safety and that safety shows starter ability. If that happens it'll be even more likely they drop Delmas next season without even a second look.


That'll never happen. I already predicted how the contract situation will turn out... Like I said, time will tell. Mayhew doesn't have the stones to cut or properly workout a deal for 2014 with Delmas. That's the bottom line.


Mayhew seemed to be fine letting Hanson and Avril walk this season. He cut KVB, their only leader on the defensive line. He got pay cuts from Raiola and Burleson. Mayhew doesn't have a problem making tough decisions or dropping players. He just has a problem determining good personnel from bad personnel.


I don't disagree that he would let Delmas leave, but the "pay cut" that he got from Burleson was 1/2 of what he should have gotten, and the Raiola deal was a take a pay cut or be cut thing... You can use Raiola as an example, but IMO he was just going to be a cap casualty. I don't think Mayhew makes that move if we have cap space. He's NEVER done it before we were in cap hell.


April 10th, 2013, 5:55 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:

I don't disagree that he would let Delmas leave, but the "pay cut" that he got from Burleson was 1/2 of what he should have gotten, and the Raiola deal was a take a pay cut or be cut thing... You can use Raiola as an example, but IMO he was just going to be a cap casualty. I don't think Mayhew makes that move if we have cap space. He's NEVER done it before we were in cap hell.



GOOD NEWS!

we wont have cap space next year either! It wont Be till Suh is affordable that we do have cap space again (so...what? 2 years then?) So it looks like MAyhew WILL do what ya want according to your own logic.

Once again, The Delmas Contract is very Lions friendly!

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April 10th, 2013, 6:01 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
regularjoe12 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:

I don't disagree that he would let Delmas leave, but the "pay cut" that he got from Burleson was 1/2 of what he should have gotten, and the Raiola deal was a take a pay cut or be cut thing... You can use Raiola as an example, but IMO he was just going to be a cap casualty. I don't think Mayhew makes that move if we have cap space. He's NEVER done it before we were in cap hell.



GOOD NEWS!

we wont have cap space next year either! It wont Be till Suh is affordable that we do have cap space again (so...what? 2 years then?) So it looks like MAyhew WILL do what ya want according to your own logic.

Once again, The Delmas Contract is very Lions friendly!


Wonna make a wager that it plays out otherwise?

Of that $8.9M he's due, I bet he collects more than he deserves.


April 10th, 2013, 6:06 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
Of the contracts that we ve given out, I dont even see one where I would say "Oh that looks like a good value for the Lions." Thats the entire point. The Lions could ve spared themselves one or two of these other contracts and tried to get some value so they could fit more quality players under the cap.


April 12th, 2013, 12:17 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:

I don't disagree that he would let Delmas leave, but the "pay cut" that he got from Burleson was 1/2 of what he should have gotten, and the Raiola deal was a take a pay cut or be cut thing... You can use Raiola as an example, but IMO he was just going to be a cap casualty. I don't think Mayhew makes that move if we have cap space. He's NEVER done it before we were in cap hell.



GOOD NEWS!

we wont have cap space next year either! It wont Be till Suh is affordable that we do have cap space again (so...what? 2 years then?) So it looks like MAyhew WILL do what ya want according to your own logic.

Once again, The Delmas Contract is very Lions friendly!


Wonna make a wager that it plays out otherwise?

Of that $8.9M he's due, I bet he collects more than he deserves.


If I was a beettin man I absolutly would...unfortunatly Im not. I took one chance and had to wear that godawful 9'ers tag for doing it.

But Im sure there will be some "I told ya so" action a year from now going on. that will hafta suffice ;)

Quote:
Of the contracts that we ve given out, I dont even see one where I would say "Oh that looks like a good value for the Lions." Thats the entire point. The Lions could ve spared themselves one or two of these other contracts and tried to get some value so they could fit more quality players under the cap.



For example?

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April 12th, 2013, 12:23 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
i dont know if this is a miss print but NFLN just listed Kris Durham as a TE. i wonder if there is anything to that

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April 15th, 2013, 7:21 pm
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