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 Tim Tebow, Lions H-back 
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
TE's are required to block and catch....where has he done this before???

Sorry, im not buying it either.

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May 2nd, 2013, 4:52 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
regularjoe12 wrote:
TE's are required to block and catch....where has he done this before???

Sorry, im not buying it either.


This, though I'd love to have him as a backup QB. I don't care about what the "experts" say about his mechanics, accuracy or any of that. He is a WINNER.

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May 2nd, 2013, 5:01 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
Shotty wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
TE's are required to block and catch....where has he done this before???

Sorry, im not buying it either.


This, though I'd love to have him as a backup QB. I don't care about what the "experts" say about his mechanics, accuracy or any of that. He is a WINNER.


I agree!...

My whole damn point is that we can have him as our back up Qb, AND possibly get production out of him elsewhere. On top of that, we can do that CHEAPER than what we're paying Shaun Hill, we get "more" out of Tebow because he helps us practice against the wildcat, and running Qbs.

I don't see the benefit of keeping Shaun Hill over Tebow...


May 2nd, 2013, 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I personally do think he's athletically gifted enough to play TE in the NFL, and I've stated that as well. I question his "meanness" to play H-back, but I do think he can play TE, and play the position well. The guy rushed for 692 attempts in college and you question his vision. He ran a 4.7 40, yet you question his athleticism. He played nearly a full season with a Qb rating of 72, he played over 1/2 a season with a Qb rating of 82, yet you claim that he can be a BACK UP Qb, right now, without much effort.

I find most of what you're saying absolutely ridiculous.


I didn't say he wasn't athletic enough to play TE only that he is not a special athlete and he is actually undersized for the position. His runs in college were from a triple option and he even used that in Denver. I question his vision as a tailback where a defense doesn't have to watch 3 different reads. He could probably get you short yardage as a RB while learning QB, but with out the trickery of the option he can't make things happen. I don't care about his QB rating, his accuracy was 50% then 46.5% the next year and Denver did everything they could to minimize his throwing when he was in the game. Those numbers also came before this season where virtually every team in the league now runs a scout team read option or has a starting QB that runs it. The Tebow mystique is gone now.

I find it ridiculous you think anyone can learn to be an NFL QB part time.


May 2nd, 2013, 5:32 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Shotty wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
TE's are required to block and catch....where has he done this before???

Sorry, im not buying it either.


This, though I'd love to have him as a backup QB. I don't care about what the "experts" say about his mechanics, accuracy or any of that. He is a WINNER.


I agree!...

My whole damn point is that we can have him as our back up Qb, AND possibly get production out of him elsewhere. On top of that, we can do that CHEAPER than what we're paying Shaun Hill, we get "more" out of Tebow because he helps us practice against the wildcat, and running Qbs.

I don't see the benefit of keeping Shaun Hill over Tebow...


I'm fine with him being a back up QB, if he's on the roster as a QB with only the occasional lesson at a second position. I don't think he will be a better back up than Hill, more entertaining not better.

I say that with the condition that he finds a way to lose the media, there is no value in him if you have to deal with his damn media train.


May 2nd, 2013, 5:36 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I personally do think he's athletically gifted enough to play TE in the NFL, and I've stated that as well. I question his "meanness" to play H-back, but I do think he can play TE, and play the position well. The guy rushed for 692 attempts in college and you question his vision. He ran a 4.7 40, yet you question his athleticism. He played nearly a full season with a Qb rating of 72, he played over 1/2 a season with a Qb rating of 82, yet you claim that he can be a BACK UP Qb, right now, without much effort.

I find most of what you're saying absolutely ridiculous.


I didn't say he wasn't athletic enough to play TE only that he is not a special athlete and he is actually undersized for the position. His runs in college were from a triple option and he even used that in Denver. I question his vision as a tailback where a defense doesn't have to watch 3 different reads. He could probably get you short yardage as a RB while learning QB, but with out the trickery of the option he can't make things happen. I don't care about his QB rating, his accuracy was 50% then 46.5% the next year and Denver did everything they could to minimize his throwing when he was in the game. Those numbers also came before this season where virtually every team in the league now runs a scout team read option or has a starting QB that runs it. The Tebow mystique is gone now.

I find it ridiculous you think anyone can learn to be an NFL QB part time.


I don't think "anyone" can learn to be a Qb part time. I think someone that started and was successful in college and at the NFL level can learn to BETTER HIS MECHANICS part time.

The whole discussion started with me stating that he would be CHEAPER than Hill, and he provides more upside. For any non-playoff contender (us), I think it's stupid to have an over-paid high-achieving vet backup on the roster, and NOT a developmental guy.

Further, as you sort of alluded to here... Tebow gives up the ADDED OPTION of practicing against the spread option, a luxury that we don't have with our current backup.

I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.


May 2nd, 2013, 6:30 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I personally do think he's athletically gifted enough to play TE in the NFL, and I've stated that as well. I question his "meanness" to play H-back, but I do think he can play TE, and play the position well. The guy rushed for 692 attempts in college and you question his vision. He ran a 4.7 40, yet you question his athleticism. He played nearly a full season with a Qb rating of 72, he played over 1/2 a season with a Qb rating of 82, yet you claim that he can be a BACK UP Qb, right now, without much effort.

I find most of what you're saying absolutely ridiculous.


I didn't say he wasn't athletic enough to play TE only that he is not a special athlete and he is actually undersized for the position. His runs in college were from a triple option and he even used that in Denver. I question his vision as a tailback where a defense doesn't have to watch 3 different reads. He could probably get you short yardage as a RB while learning QB, but with out the trickery of the option he can't make things happen. I don't care about his QB rating, his accuracy was 50% then 46.5% the next year and Denver did everything they could to minimize his throwing when he was in the game. Those numbers also came before this season where virtually every team in the league now runs a scout team read option or has a starting QB that runs it. The Tebow mystique is gone now.

I find it ridiculous you think anyone can learn to be an NFL QB part time.


I don't think "anyone" can learn to be a Qb part time. I think someone that started and was successful in college and at the NFL level can learn to BETTER HIS MECHANICS part time.

The whole discussion started with me stating that he would be CHEAPER than Hill, and he provides more upside. For any non-playoff contender (us), I think it's stupid to have an over-paid high-achieving vet backup on the roster, and NOT a developmental guy.

Further, as you sort of alluded to here... Tebow gives up the ADDED OPTION of practicing against the spread option, a luxury that we don't have with our current backup.

I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.


I don't think it's just Tebow's mechanics that make him a bad passer. He lacks touch and I'm unsure of his ability to competently lead receivers. Fixing his mechanics will absolutely help, but it's only a part of his issues. I also believe his mechanics are so bad he needs a full time QB coach working with him. His natural throwing motion is about as bad as it gets and it's not going to be easy for him break the habit of falling back into it when plays break down. IMO it's not about bettering his mechanics its about changing them entirely.

I will also say that I don't think the Lions have a QB coach good enough to help him. What good is a higher upside if you can't get him even close to reaching it? I honestly wanted the Lions to draft a QB this year because I do agree Hill is pointless on this roster.


May 2nd, 2013, 6:56 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I personally do think he's athletically gifted enough to play TE in the NFL, and I've stated that as well. I question his "meanness" to play H-back, but I do think he can play TE, and play the position well. The guy rushed for 692 attempts in college and you question his vision. He ran a 4.7 40, yet you question his athleticism. He played nearly a full season with a Qb rating of 72, he played over 1/2 a season with a Qb rating of 82, yet you claim that he can be a BACK UP Qb, right now, without much effort.

I find most of what you're saying absolutely ridiculous.


I didn't say he wasn't athletic enough to play TE only that he is not a special athlete and he is actually undersized for the position. His runs in college were from a triple option and he even used that in Denver. I question his vision as a tailback where a defense doesn't have to watch 3 different reads. He could probably get you short yardage as a RB while learning QB, but with out the trickery of the option he can't make things happen. I don't care about his QB rating, his accuracy was 50% then 46.5% the next year and Denver did everything they could to minimize his throwing when he was in the game. Those numbers also came before this season where virtually every team in the league now runs a scout team read option or has a starting QB that runs it. The Tebow mystique is gone now.

I find it ridiculous you think anyone can learn to be an NFL QB part time.


I don't think "anyone" can learn to be a Qb part time. I think someone that started and was successful in college and at the NFL level can learn to BETTER HIS MECHANICS part time.

The whole discussion started with me stating that he would be CHEAPER than Hill, and he provides more upside. For any non-playoff contender (us), I think it's stupid to have an over-paid high-achieving vet backup on the roster, and NOT a developmental guy.

Further, as you sort of alluded to here... Tebow gives up the ADDED OPTION of practicing against the spread option, a luxury that we don't have with our current backup.

I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.


I don't think it's just Tebow's mechanics that make him a bad passer. He lacks touch and I'm unsure of his ability to competently lead receivers. Fixing his mechanics will absolutely help, but it's only a part of his issues. I also believe his mechanics are so bad he needs a full time QB coach working with him. His natural throwing motion is about as bad as it gets and it's not going to be easy for him break the habit of falling back into it when plays break down. IMO it's not about bettering his mechanics its about changing them entirely.

I will also say that I don't think the Lions have a QB coach good enough to help him. What good is a higher upside if you can't get him even close to reaching it? I honestly wanted the Lions to draft a QB this year because I do agree Hill is pointless on this roster.


We're not talking about him as a starter. Shaun Hill isn't perfect either. He lacks arm strength.

I wanted us to draft Zach Dysert in the 6th or 7th. We could have paid the guy peanuts, had a young developmental guy for three years, and I think we could possibly get something for Hill from a team that is playoff ready.


May 2nd, 2013, 6:59 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I personally do think he's athletically gifted enough to play TE in the NFL, and I've stated that as well. I question his "meanness" to play H-back, but I do think he can play TE, and play the position well. The guy rushed for 692 attempts in college and you question his vision. He ran a 4.7 40, yet you question his athleticism. He played nearly a full season with a Qb rating of 72, he played over 1/2 a season with a Qb rating of 82, yet you claim that he can be a BACK UP Qb, right now, without much effort.

I find most of what you're saying absolutely ridiculous.


I didn't say he wasn't athletic enough to play TE only that he is not a special athlete and he is actually undersized for the position. His runs in college were from a triple option and he even used that in Denver. I question his vision as a tailback where a defense doesn't have to watch 3 different reads. He could probably get you short yardage as a RB while learning QB, but with out the trickery of the option he can't make things happen. I don't care about his QB rating, his accuracy was 50% then 46.5% the next year and Denver did everything they could to minimize his throwing when he was in the game. Those numbers also came before this season where virtually every team in the league now runs a scout team read option or has a starting QB that runs it. The Tebow mystique is gone now.

I find it ridiculous you think anyone can learn to be an NFL QB part time.


I don't think "anyone" can learn to be a Qb part time. I think someone that started and was successful in college and at the NFL level can learn to BETTER HIS MECHANICS part time.

The whole discussion started with me stating that he would be CHEAPER than Hill, and he provides more upside. For any non-playoff contender (us), I think it's stupid to have an over-paid high-achieving vet backup on the roster, and NOT a developmental guy.

Further, as you sort of alluded to here... Tebow gives up the ADDED OPTION of practicing against the spread option, a luxury that we don't have with our current backup.

I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.


I don't think it's just Tebow's mechanics that make him a bad passer. He lacks touch and I'm unsure of his ability to competently lead receivers. Fixing his mechanics will absolutely help, but it's only a part of his issues. I also believe his mechanics are so bad he needs a full time QB coach working with him. His natural throwing motion is about as bad as it gets and it's not going to be easy for him break the habit of falling back into it when plays break down. IMO it's not about bettering his mechanics its about changing them entirely.

I will also say that I don't think the Lions have a QB coach good enough to help him. What good is a higher upside if you can't get him even close to reaching it? I honestly wanted the Lions to draft a QB this year because I do agree Hill is pointless on this roster.


We're not talking about him as a starter. Shaun Hill isn't perfect either. He lacks arm strength.

I wanted us to draft Zach Dysert in the 6th or 7th. We could have paid the guy peanuts, had a young developmental guy for three years, and I think we could possibly get something for Hill from a team that is playoff ready.


If he's brought in as a development guy then your trying to get him to be close to starter ready, so you can play or trade him. If that's not the plan then just sign another old vet to save money or keep paying Hill.

I don't think anyone gives up more than a 6th for Hill even if they were on a playoff run, he has almost no playing time in 2 years, but I agree a 6th or 7th round QB would have been nice. I really hope this WMU guy is better than Moore, I can't stand that Moore is their development guy. Moore idoesn't even look like he could become good enough to be a back up.


May 2nd, 2013, 7:15 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I personally do think he's athletically gifted enough to play TE in the NFL, and I've stated that as well. I question his "meanness" to play H-back, but I do think he can play TE, and play the position well. The guy rushed for 692 attempts in college and you question his vision. He ran a 4.7 40, yet you question his athleticism. He played nearly a full season with a Qb rating of 72, he played over 1/2 a season with a Qb rating of 82, yet you claim that he can be a BACK UP Qb, right now, without much effort.

I find most of what you're saying absolutely ridiculous.


I didn't say he wasn't athletic enough to play TE only that he is not a special athlete and he is actually undersized for the position. His runs in college were from a triple option and he even used that in Denver. I question his vision as a tailback where a defense doesn't have to watch 3 different reads. He could probably get you short yardage as a RB while learning QB, but with out the trickery of the option he can't make things happen. I don't care about his QB rating, his accuracy was 50% then 46.5% the next year and Denver did everything they could to minimize his throwing when he was in the game. Those numbers also came before this season where virtually every team in the league now runs a scout team read option or has a starting QB that runs it. The Tebow mystique is gone now.

I find it ridiculous you think anyone can learn to be an NFL QB part time.


I don't think "anyone" can learn to be a Qb part time. I think someone that started and was successful in college and at the NFL level can learn to BETTER HIS MECHANICS part time.

The whole discussion started with me stating that he would be CHEAPER than Hill, and he provides more upside. For any non-playoff contender (us), I think it's stupid to have an over-paid high-achieving vet backup on the roster, and NOT a developmental guy.

Further, as you sort of alluded to here... Tebow gives up the ADDED OPTION of practicing against the spread option, a luxury that we don't have with our current backup.

I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.


I don't think it's just Tebow's mechanics that make him a bad passer. He lacks touch and I'm unsure of his ability to competently lead receivers. Fixing his mechanics will absolutely help, but it's only a part of his issues. I also believe his mechanics are so bad he needs a full time QB coach working with him. His natural throwing motion is about as bad as it gets and it's not going to be easy for him break the habit of falling back into it when plays break down. IMO it's not about bettering his mechanics its about changing them entirely.

I will also say that I don't think the Lions have a QB coach good enough to help him. What good is a higher upside if you can't get him even close to reaching it? I honestly wanted the Lions to draft a QB this year because I do agree Hill is pointless on this roster.


We're not talking about him as a starter. Shaun Hill isn't perfect either. He lacks arm strength.

I wanted us to draft Zach Dysert in the 6th or 7th. We could have paid the guy peanuts, had a young developmental guy for three years, and I think we could possibly get something for Hill from a team that is playoff ready.


If he's brought in as a development guy then your trying to get him to be close to starter ready, so you can play or trade him. If that's not the plan then just sign another old vet to save money or keep paying Hill.

I don't think anyone gives up more than a 6th for Hill even if they were on a playoff run, he has almost no playing time in 2 years, but I agree a 6th or 7th round QB would have been nice. I really hope this WMU guy is better than Moore, I can't stand that Moore is their development guy. Moore idoesn't even look like he could become good enough to be a back up.


I'm trying to shed salary... I don't care what we get for Hill. I agree with his worth, but it's better than nothing, and it's damn sure better than paying him $1.3M or whatever it is that he's due.

You develop players to make them better, period. It's not to trade him, and it's not to start him, it's to have a better team, flat out.


May 2nd, 2013, 7:30 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I'm trying to shed salary... I don't care what we get for Hill. I agree with his worth, but it's better than nothing, and it's damn sure better than paying him $1.3M or whatever it is that he's due.

You develop players to make them better, period. It's not to trade him, and it's not to start him, it's to have a better team, flat out.


That's not true at QB, if you already have what you feel is your franchise QB.


May 2nd, 2013, 7:37 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I'm trying to shed salary... I don't care what we get for Hill. I agree with his worth, but it's better than nothing, and it's damn sure better than paying him $1.3M or whatever it is that he's due.

You develop players to make them better, period. It's not to trade him, and it's not to start him, it's to have a better team, flat out.


That's not true at QB, if you already have what you feel is your franchise QB.


Ri-damn-diculous...


May 2nd, 2013, 7:39 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I'm trying to shed salary... I don't care what we get for Hill. I agree with his worth, but it's better than nothing, and it's damn sure better than paying him $1.3M or whatever it is that he's due.

You develop players to make them better, period. It's not to trade him, and it's not to start him, it's to have a better team, flat out.


That's not true at QB, if you already have what you feel is your franchise QB.


Ri-damn-diculous...


Yes you are.

I guess Belichick been doing it wrong.


May 2nd, 2013, 7:45 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
By signing Tebow they wouldn't be saving enough money to make a noticeable difference. I believe he will be entering his 4th season and league minimum has to be around $700,000 if not higher plus he isn't inking anything without signing, workout, and roster bonuses. The right move would have been to move Hill if possible and let Moore and his noodle arm go while making a guy like Bray their priority FA signing. Bray needs work and needs to learn what it means to be dedicated to his craft but he has the big arm to at least get it to Calvin downfield if Stafford were to get hurt.


May 2nd, 2013, 7:49 pm
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Post Re: Tim Tebow, Lions H-back
Let us not forget we are only 2 years separated from wondering if Staff had any durability at all. What we have in Hill is well worth his price tag. He knows the offense and proved that he can keep it functional if Staff goes down.

I have seen Tebow throw. If he had to lead this team for a full game or more it is a loss. I am not interested in saving what is essentially pennies by comparison to make the team worse.

The only spot I could see Tebow taking and it NOT wanting to make me vomit, is Logan's spot. Maybe not as a returner, but for the occasional slash plays. But that's a minimum wage paying job.

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May 2nd, 2013, 8:09 pm
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