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Crisis in the Secondary
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Author:  HechePipe [ November 27th, 2013, 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

sweetd20 wrote:
This belongs in one of the Stafford threads but I've said it since they drafted him, "he is an Aikman type of QB." Stafford needs a consistent running game that can shorten a game and soften up defenses. Aikman was never one of the most accurate QBs in the league, but it wasn't as obvious as it is with Stafford because he wasn't asked to chuck the ball 40-50 times every game. The Lions don't need Emmitt Smith but they do need a running game that can pick up short yardage 1st downs at least enough to make defenses respect it. The way things have been and continue to be, have the Lions facing defenses that focus on coverage even in short yardage 3rd downs with confidence that the Lions don't even have enough faith in the running game to regularly attempt running. Until the Lions get a reliable running game and make opposing LBs and Ss at least respect the run in short yardage situations it's going to be hard for them to consistently put drives together. With a better run game they could reduce Stafford's pass attempts to around 30-35 a game, open up a play action pass game, and keep a suspect secondary off the field.

Aikman like Stafford could make the big plays down the field but he wasn't asked to constantly throw the ball on long sustained drives like Stafford is asked to do. This is a new NFL where the league wants teams to throw the ball but consistent running games and solid defenses still win championships. How many Super Bowls has Brady won since the defense became suspect and they became a pass happy team? Yeah they've been high powered and in contention every year but they have zero championships. It's the balanced teams that win and until the Lions find that balance Stafford will continue to look suspect and amazing from game to game if not possession to possession.

I tend to agree, but Aikman actually was one of the most accurate QBs in the league.
Compare his completion percentage to Tom Brady's. Spoiler alert: Not much different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Aikma ... statistics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#Statistics

Author:  HechePipe [ November 27th, 2013, 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

HechePipe wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
This belongs in one of the Stafford threads but I've said it since they drafted him, "he is an Aikman type of QB." Stafford needs a consistent running game that can shorten a game and soften up defenses. Aikman was never one of the most accurate QBs in the league, but it wasn't as obvious as it is with Stafford because he wasn't asked to chuck the ball 40-50 times every game. The Lions don't need Emmitt Smith but they do need a running game that can pick up short yardage 1st downs at least enough to make defenses respect it. The way things have been and continue to be, have the Lions facing defenses that focus on coverage even in short yardage 3rd downs with confidence that the Lions don't even have enough faith in the running game to regularly attempt running. Until the Lions get a reliable running game and make opposing LBs and Ss at least respect the run in short yardage situations it's going to be hard for them to consistently put drives together. With a better run game they could reduce Stafford's pass attempts to around 30-35 a game, open up a play action pass game, and keep a suspect secondary off the field.

Aikman like Stafford could make the big plays down the field but he wasn't asked to constantly throw the ball on long sustained drives like Stafford is asked to do. This is a new NFL where the league wants teams to throw the ball but consistent running games and solid defenses still win championships. How many Super Bowls has Brady won since the defense became suspect and they became a pass happy team? Yeah they've been high powered and in contention every year but they have zero championships. It's the balanced teams that win and until the Lions find that balance Stafford will continue to look suspect and amazing from game to game if not possession to possession.

I tend to agree, but Aikman actually was one of the most accurate QBs in the league.
Compare his completion percentage to Tom Brady's. Spoiler alert: Not much different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Aikma ... statistics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#Statistics


In 1998, he was already past his prime due to injuries, but the Troy Aikman you're referring to can be compared from 1991 until 1998. In those 7 years, he was pretty much in the low 60% completion percentage, which is pretty damned accurate.

Author:  BillySims [ November 28th, 2013, 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

HechePipe wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
This belongs in one of the Stafford threads but I've said it since they drafted him, "he is an Aikman type of QB." Stafford needs a consistent running game that can shorten a game and soften up defenses. Aikman was never one of the most accurate QBs in the league, but it wasn't as obvious as it is with Stafford because he wasn't asked to chuck the ball 40-50 times every game. The Lions don't need Emmitt Smith but they do need a running game that can pick up short yardage 1st downs at least enough to make defenses respect it. The way things have been and continue to be, have the Lions facing defenses that focus on coverage even in short yardage 3rd downs with confidence that the Lions don't even have enough faith in the running game to regularly attempt running. Until the Lions get a reliable running game and make opposing LBs and Ss at least respect the run in short yardage situations it's going to be hard for them to consistently put drives together. With a better run game they could reduce Stafford's pass attempts to around 30-35 a game, open up a play action pass game, and keep a suspect secondary off the field.

Aikman like Stafford could make the big plays down the field but he wasn't asked to constantly throw the ball on long sustained drives like Stafford is asked to do. This is a new NFL where the league wants teams to throw the ball but consistent running games and solid defenses still win championships. How many Super Bowls has Brady won since the defense became suspect and they became a pass happy team? Yeah they've been high powered and in contention every year but they have zero championships. It's the balanced teams that win and until the Lions find that balance Stafford will continue to look suspect and amazing from game to game if not possession to possession.

I tend to agree, but Aikman actually was one of the most accurate QBs in the league.
Compare his completion percentage to Tom Brady's. Spoiler alert: Not much different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Aikma ... statistics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#Statistics


I would say that Stafford is far more like Brett Favre than Aikman.

Author:  The Legend [ November 28th, 2013, 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

I dont see the Aikman comparison

Author:  m2karateman [ November 28th, 2013, 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

I don't see the comparison to Favre, Aikman, Brady or any other current or future HOF quarterback. Stafford has a strong arm. That's about as far as the comparisons can go. He is still entirely too inconsistent to be considered an elite level QB. Although, I think he had a pretty decent game today once he settled down.

Author:  BillySims [ November 28th, 2013, 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

m2karateman wrote:
I don't see the comparison to Favre, Aikman, Brady or any other current or future HOF quarterback. Stafford has a strong arm. That's about as far as the comparisons can go. He is still entirely too inconsistent to be considered an elite level QB. Although, I think he had a pretty decent game today once he settled down.


Stafford is every bit the gunslinger that Favre ever was. Right down to slinging it sidearm every now and then.

Author:  DJ-B [ November 29th, 2013, 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

BillySims wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
I don't see the comparison to Favre, Aikman, Brady or any other current or future HOF quarterback. Stafford has a strong arm. That's about as far as the comparisons can go. He is still entirely too inconsistent to be considered an elite level QB. Although, I think he had a pretty decent game today once he settled down.


Stafford is every bit the gunslinger that Favre ever was. Right down to slinging it sidearm every now and then.


I Agree. Farve has been to me the obvious comparison since Day 1. Obv witht he injuries vs Farves Ironman repuration, that part didnt line up, but from the physical talent to the style of play to the Inconsistent decision making (Which Farve had his whole career) there really isnt a closer comparison for Stafford.

Author:  The Legend [ November 29th, 2013, 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

favre might be one of the closest comparisons bc of the aggressive mentality and risky throws as well as the different arm angles and things but to me favre made a lot more plays with his feet, was much better at extending plays. thats not a strength for stafford though maybe it was at times yesterday and the play he made at the end of the tampa game to get it to calvin was impressive also. obviously he is not to the caliber of brett favre in favre's prime at this point.

Author:  HechePipe [ November 29th, 2013, 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

If Slay has turned the corner as a rookie and plays this way or better from here on out, then I think the crisis in the secondary has been averted for now. Slay/Houston/Mathis might hold on just enough for the Lions to win a playoff game. But Slay needs to progress just a little bit more. I'm hoping this game gives him a little bit of confidence and if he can just play this well against better receivers, then the Lions can go out and get that flashy #2 receiver and gamble with some draft picks at CB and LB. With this foundation on the offensive line and defensive line and secondary, Mayhew can go out and get some playmakers, knowing that if he doesn't hit on all of them, then the team will do just fine. High risk/high reward acquisitions will make more sense with these pieces fitting together as well as they did this week.

Author:  m2karateman [ November 29th, 2013, 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

HechePipe wrote:
If Slay has turned the corner as a rookie and plays this way or better from here on out, then I think the crisis in the secondary has been averted for now. Slay/Houston/Mathis might hold on just enough for the Lions to win a playoff game. But Slay needs to progress just a little bit more. I'm hoping this game gives him a little bit of confidence and if he can just play this well against better receivers, then the Lions can go out and get that flashy #2 receiver and gamble with some draft picks at CB and LB. With this foundation on the offensive line and defensive line and secondary, Mayhew can go out and get some playmakers, knowing that if he doesn't hit on all of them, then the team will do just fine. High risk/high reward acquisitions will make more sense with these pieces fitting together as well as they did this week.


Big IF for Slay. HE did play a pretty good game against Green Bay, but I'd rather wait to see if he can do that consistently. Even then, the Lions will still need another starting quality corner. I don't know what happened to Houston, but he's gotten progressively worse this season. Same with Rashean Mathis. His play of late has been really inconsistent. Bentley isn't a starter. He's a better fit as the nickel back. Mathis can be let go, and the Lions need to re-evaluate Houston next season. Jonte Green and Chris Greenwood probably aren't starting material either. It would be great if the Lions could find a true number one corner for this secondary. Paired with Slay, I'd think we could be pretty strong back there at that point.

Author:  The Legend [ November 29th, 2013, 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

m2karateman wrote:
HechePipe wrote:
If Slay has turned the corner as a rookie and plays this way or better from here on out, then I think the crisis in the secondary has been averted for now. Slay/Houston/Mathis might hold on just enough for the Lions to win a playoff game. But Slay needs to progress just a little bit more. I'm hoping this game gives him a little bit of confidence and if he can just play this well against better receivers, then the Lions can go out and get that flashy #2 receiver and gamble with some draft picks at CB and LB. With this foundation on the offensive line and defensive line and secondary, Mayhew can go out and get some playmakers, knowing that if he doesn't hit on all of them, then the team will do just fine. High risk/high reward acquisitions will make more sense with these pieces fitting together as well as they did this week.


Big IF for Slay. HE did play a pretty good game against Green Bay, but I'd rather wait to see if he can do that consistently. Even then, the Lions will still need another starting quality corner. I don't know what happened to Houston, but he's gotten progressively worse this season. Same with Rashean Mathis. His play of late has been really inconsistent. Bentley isn't a starter. He's a better fit as the nickel back. Mathis can be let go, and the Lions need to re-evaluate Houston next season. Jonte Green and Chris Greenwood probably aren't starting material either. It would be great if the Lions could find a true number one corner for this secondary. Paired with Slay, I'd think we could be pretty strong back there at that point.


flynn was floating balls giving time to defenders to make plays. maybe its a confidence boost for slay but i dont think that was a true test

Author:  HechePipe [ November 29th, 2013, 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

The Legend wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
HechePipe wrote:
If Slay has turned the corner as a rookie and plays this way or better from here on out, then I think the crisis in the secondary has been averted for now. Slay/Houston/Mathis might hold on just enough for the Lions to win a playoff game. But Slay needs to progress just a little bit more. I'm hoping this game gives him a little bit of confidence and if he can just play this well against better receivers, then the Lions can go out and get that flashy #2 receiver and gamble with some draft picks at CB and LB. With this foundation on the offensive line and defensive line and secondary, Mayhew can go out and get some playmakers, knowing that if he doesn't hit on all of them, then the team will do just fine. High risk/high reward acquisitions will make more sense with these pieces fitting together as well as they did this week.


Big IF for Slay. HE did play a pretty good game against Green Bay, but I'd rather wait to see if he can do that consistently. Even then, the Lions will still need another starting quality corner. I don't know what happened to Houston, but he's gotten progressively worse this season. Same with Rashean Mathis. His play of late has been really inconsistent. Bentley isn't a starter. He's a better fit as the nickel back. Mathis can be let go, and the Lions need to re-evaluate Houston next season. Jonte Green and Chris Greenwood probably aren't starting material either. It would be great if the Lions could find a true number one corner for this secondary. Paired with Slay, I'd think we could be pretty strong back there at that point.


flynn was floating balls giving time to defenders to make plays. maybe its a confidence boost for slay but i dont think that was a true test

Hopefully, the rest of the season will be an evaluation for him. I don't think it's that big of a stretch to see him being a starter by the end of the year. Like I said, if he can just prove to be a decent number two, then I wouldn't mind Mayhew making some shifty moves to get another CB in there. But when you have to hit on 2 corners in the draft or FA in the same year, your odds of finding even one go down. But if Mayhew wants to make a trade for CB or has to pay out the nose for a CB in the offseason, I'm much more comfortable with him doing that if Slay proves to be decent from here on out. I think a lot of what goes on this offseason is directly hinged to the success of Slay, but we will see.

Author:  BillySims [ November 29th, 2013, 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

The Legend wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
HechePipe wrote:
If Slay has turned the corner as a rookie and plays this way or better from here on out, then I think the crisis in the secondary has been averted for now. Slay/Houston/Mathis might hold on just enough for the Lions to win a playoff game. But Slay needs to progress just a little bit more. I'm hoping this game gives him a little bit of confidence and if he can just play this well against better receivers, then the Lions can go out and get that flashy #2 receiver and gamble with some draft picks at CB and LB. With this foundation on the offensive line and defensive line and secondary, Mayhew can go out and get some playmakers, knowing that if he doesn't hit on all of them, then the team will do just fine. High risk/high reward acquisitions will make more sense with these pieces fitting together as well as they did this week.


Big IF for Slay. HE did play a pretty good game against Green Bay, but I'd rather wait to see if he can do that consistently. Even then, the Lions will still need another starting quality corner. I don't know what happened to Houston, but he's gotten progressively worse this season. Same with Rashean Mathis. His play of late has been really inconsistent. Bentley isn't a starter. He's a better fit as the nickel back. Mathis can be let go, and the Lions need to re-evaluate Houston next season. Jonte Green and Chris Greenwood probably aren't starting material either. It would be great if the Lions could find a true number one corner for this secondary. Paired with Slay, I'd think we could be pretty strong back there at that point.


flynn was floating balls giving time to defenders to make plays. maybe its a confidence boost for slay but i dont think that was a true test


Slay will be fine. He is still adjusting to the NFL and learning the NFL game. As for Houston, I have long wondered if he was really all that good. Or if he was just the shiniest turd we had and opposing QB's just had easier targets on the other side of the field. As such, I agree that we still need another CB in either the 1st or 2nd round. Any later, you are only drafting a nickel CB.

And I agree Legend. This was a confidence booster for him. But, it wasn't any real test.

Author:  The Legend [ November 29th, 2013, 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

I think Houston has had a couple leg issues which have to make life hard. Trying to be optimisitic since he just got a new contract. Mayhew nailed the 2013 offseason but Houston is having a major down year.

Author:  DJ-B [ December 1st, 2013, 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crisis in the Secondary

I agree that Slay might prove himself a starter by end of year, but not #1 material. Not to say he couldn't make it there int he future, but not yet def. Id be happy to see them make a move for another 1st-2nd rnd CB, with the idea that Houston can be a #1/2 with slay next year, Bentley as Nickel and the Rookie gets playtime also. A big-time CB acquisition would be an even better move since we have a ton of talent and waiting another year-2 for CBs top develop means other talented positions may start getting long in the tooth.

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