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 Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go 
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
I think the Lions have a lot more talent that KC.

1) I think KC overachieved this year, and will regress next year

but

2) I think the Lions could actually contend for a SB with the right leadership, I really believe that


December 10th, 2013, 4:34 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
So since we've chatted about getting rid of swartz for 9 pages, WHO is available? Where's the list of names of potential coaches inside and outside of the box that we could look at?

The Bears took Trestman who is an offensive genius from what I understand, which means good things for them in years to come if it develops right; I mean look at what he's done for McCown.

Could Saban be enticed the way Bama did him, and took him away from LSU? The problem with him, is you don't know if he'll keep his word.

But seriously, who's available that would be that missing piece to take us to the next level?

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December 10th, 2013, 9:27 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
WarEr4Christ wrote:
So since we've chatted about getting rid of swartz for 9 pages, WHO is available? Where's the list of names of potential coaches inside and outside of the box that we could look at?

The Bears took Trestman who is an offensive genius from what I understand, which means good things for them in years to come if it develops right; I mean look at what he's done for McCown.

Could Saban be enticed the way Bama did him, and took him away from LSU? The problem with him, is you don't know if he'll keep his word.

But seriously, who's available that would be that missing piece to take us to the next level?

As has been said a few times already, Gruden is available and has won a SB. Shanahan will likely be available, but I'm not real high on him. Then there are college coaches, but those are always more of a risk. I don't want Saban. He left Miami in shambles and I want no part of that here.

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December 10th, 2013, 9:33 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
I would think if the Lions cut ties with Schwartz it would not be for a total rebuild. For that reason, I would only really consider former NFL head coaches with a winning record or close to it. In no particular order.

Tony Dungy* (58 yo, record 139-69 .668 winning percentage)
Bill Cowher* (56 yo, record 149-90-1, .623 winning percentage)
Mike Sherman (58 yo record 57-39, .594)
Jon Gruden* (50 yo 95-81, .540)
Lovie Smith# (55 yo 81-63, .563)
Brian Billick* (59 yo 80-64, .556)
Jack Del Rio (50 yo 68-71, .489)
Ken Whisenhunt# (51 yo 45-51 .469)

Then there are coaches who might be fired
Mike Shanahan** (61 yo 169-134, .558)
Tom Coughlin** (67yo 156-127 .551)
Rex Ryan (50 yo 39-37 .519)
Gary Kubiak (51yo 61-64 .488)
Mike Smith (54 yo 59-33, .641)

For comparison sake Jim Schwartz (47 yo 29-47, .382)


December 10th, 2013, 12:46 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
I don't think it has to be an established NFL coach. Harbaugh wasn't an established coach when he went to the 49ers.

I would just look for a good coach that isn't a system guy (like Martz), who understands the Lions have talent and thinks he can get more out of them.


December 10th, 2013, 12:50 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
The Legend wrote:
I would think if the Lions cut ties with Schwartz it would not be for a total rebuild. For that reason, I would only really consider former NFL head coaches with a winning record or close to it. In no particular order.

Tony Dungy* (58 yo, record 139-69 .668 winning percentage)
Bill Cowher* (56 yo, record 149-90-1, .623 winning percentage)
Mike Sherman (58 yo record 57-39, .594)
Jon Gruden* (50 yo 95-81, .540)
Lovie Smith# (55 yo 81-63, .563)
Brian Billick* (59 yo 80-64, .556)
Jack Del Rio (50 yo 68-71, .489)
Ken Whisenhunt# (51 yo 45-51 .469)

Then there are coaches who might be fired
Mike Shanahan** (61 yo 169-134, .558)
Tom Coughlin** (67yo 156-127 .551)
Rex Ryan (50 yo 39-37 .519)
Gary Kubiak (51yo 61-64 .488)
Mike Smith (54 yo 59-33, .641)

For comparison sake Jim Schwartz (47 yo 29-47, .382)


Thats a great list, and how awwesome would it be if we could pull Gruden or Cowher or Dungy from the press box...they are all unlikley though. I would also not be real happy if we got Rex Ryan , Wisenhunt, or Kubiak. the little I have seen of them doesnt excite me and Ryan is a DB IMO...why get rid of one DB just to replace him with another.

Shanahan and Coughlin would be upgrades though...but i think when discussing the HC you also have to include coordinators too. who would Shanahan bring with him for example?

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December 10th, 2013, 12:54 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
I can more than understand the love for Dungy, Cowher, etc. but support for a few established coaches I don't get.

Gruden, for example, is clearly highly knowledgeable. But he won a SB with someone else's team, perhaps because he knew the Raider's defensive signals, then coached consistently subpar TB teams.

Jack Del Rio, Ken Whisenhunt, Rex Ryan, Gary Kubiak -- all pretty mixed resumes.


December 10th, 2013, 1:05 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
regularjoe12 wrote:
The Legend wrote:
I would think if the Lions cut ties with Schwartz it would not be for a total rebuild. For that reason, I would only really consider former NFL head coaches with a winning record or close to it. In no particular order.

Tony Dungy* (58 yo, record 139-69 .668 winning percentage)
Bill Cowher* (56 yo, record 149-90-1, .623 winning percentage)
Mike Sherman (58 yo record 57-39, .594)
Jon Gruden* (50 yo 95-81, .540)
Lovie Smith# (55 yo 81-63, .563)
Brian Billick* (59 yo 80-64, .556)
Jack Del Rio (50 yo 68-71, .489)
Ken Whisenhunt# (51 yo 45-51 .469)

Then there are coaches who might be fired
Mike Shanahan** (61 yo 169-134, .558)
Tom Coughlin** (67yo 156-127 .551)
Rex Ryan (50 yo 39-37 .519)
Gary Kubiak (51yo 61-64 .488)
Mike Smith (54 yo 59-33, .641)

For comparison sake Jim Schwartz (47 yo 29-47, .382)


Thats a great list, and how awwesome would it be if we could pull Gruden or Cowher or Dungy from the press box...they are all unlikley though. I would also not be real happy if we got Rex Ryan , Wisenhunt, or Kubiak. the little I have seen of them doesnt excite me and Ryan is a DB IMO...why get rid of one DB just to replace him with another.

Shanahan and Coughlin would be upgrades though...but i think when discussing the HC you also have to include coordinators too. who would Shanahan bring with him for example?


sure there are pro s and cons to all of them, some i like some i dont, some would need a lot of money and convincing to leave there current gigs. on paper though, all seem to have accomplished more than schwartz - not factoring detailed specifics/excuses/etc into it. they might not all be upgrades - i was just putting together a list for some of the guys acting like possible replacements for schwartz do not exist. as blueskies said, there may be plenty of other qualified candidates in college ranks or coordinator positions though IMO thats more of a dice roll than someone already tested in such a position.


December 10th, 2013, 1:12 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Blueskies wrote:
I can more than understand the love for Dungy, Cowher, etc. but support for a few established coaches I don't get.

Gruden, for example, is clearly highly knowledgeable. But he won a SB with someone else's team, perhaps because he knew the Raider's defensive signals, then coached consistently subpar TB teams.

Jack Del Rio, Ken Whisenhunt, Rex Ryan, Gary Kubiak -- all pretty mixed resumes.


i think if you look at the specifics of when those coaches did well and when they did poorly you will see personnel and injury issues. at least for the majority of them. i dont see many situations of having players like stafford/megatron/suh and not being affected by injuries but clunking to 4-12 and then adding bush and an amazing set of offseason additions with major injuries by division rivals but not taking a commanding hold on the divison while playing against one of the easier schedules in the NFL. gruden for example, he won with someone else's team - thats all we d want him to do here. this isnt a rebuild job. whisenhunt took a mediocre arizona team to the superbowl, his star qb retired and they were left with nothing at the qb spot. ryan just coaches up whatever he has, whether its sanchez, geno smith, etc he gets a lot out of nothing.again though im not advocating for all of them or any one of them specifically but i think the lions could benefit from an upgrade.

i dont understand what excuses people would like us to use for jim schwartz?


December 10th, 2013, 1:22 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
regularjoe12 wrote:
The Legend wrote:
I would think if the Lions cut ties with Schwartz it would not be for a total rebuild. For that reason, I would only really consider former NFL head coaches with a winning record or close to it. In no particular order.

Tony Dungy* (58 yo, record 139-69 .668 winning percentage)
Bill Cowher* (56 yo, record 149-90-1, .623 winning percentage)
Mike Sherman (58 yo record 57-39, .594)
Jon Gruden* (50 yo 95-81, .540)
Lovie Smith# (55 yo 81-63, .563)
Brian Billick* (59 yo 80-64, .556)
Jack Del Rio (50 yo 68-71, .489)
Ken Whisenhunt# (51 yo 45-51 .469)

Then there are coaches who might be fired
Mike Shanahan** (61 yo 169-134, .558)
Tom Coughlin** (67yo 156-127 .551)
Rex Ryan (50 yo 39-37 .519)
Gary Kubiak (51yo 61-64 .488)
Mike Smith (54 yo 59-33, .641)

For comparison sake Jim Schwartz (47 yo 29-47, .382)


Thats a great list, and how awwesome would it be if we could pull Gruden or Cowher or Dungy from the press box...they are all unlikley though. I would also not be real happy if we got Rex Ryan , Wisenhunt, or Kubiak. the little I have seen of them doesnt excite me and Ryan is a DB IMO...why get rid of one DB just to replace him with another.

Shanahan and Coughlin would be upgrades though...but i think when discussing the HC you also have to include coordinators too. who would Shanahan bring with him for example?


I would not want any coach connected in any way to the Tampon 2 defense. (It worked just so gosh darned well last time. In addition, I don't want anyone that will try to force a full time Wet Toast Offense.

Ideally, I would like to see a Tom Moore, (disciple), offense with a Rex Ryan style defense. I like the Baltimore approach to their coaching staff with a ST coach as their HC. Who is considered to be the best ST Coordinator?


December 10th, 2013, 1:23 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
The Legend wrote:
I would think if the Lions cut ties with Schwartz it would not be for a total rebuild. For that reason, I would only really consider former NFL head coaches with a winning record or close to it. In no particular order.

Interesting list, thanks for putting it together. My thoughts:

Tony Dungy* (58 yo, record 139-69 .668 winning percentage) - if he were an option, I'd be fine with getting rid of Schwartz even if we got to the playoffs but lost in round 1 (IMO, a single playoff victory secures his job). Sadly, I doubt very much he's an option.
Bill Cowher* (56 yo, record 149-90-1, .623 winning percentage) See Dungy.
Mike Sherman (58 yo record 57-39, .594) Could be interesting.
Jon Gruden* (50 yo 95-81, .540) IMO, too long out of the game and his record post the TB superbowl was uninspiring
Lovie Smith# (55 yo 81-63, .563) I don't see Lovie as any more impressive than Schwartz. Never really understood what people saw in him, to be honest. And the idea of Marinelli back in town is horrifying.
Brian Billick* (59 yo 80-64, .556) Too long out of the game
Jack Del Rio (50 yo 68-71, .489) Don't see him as any better than Schwartz, I think this would be change for change's sake.
Ken Whisenhunt# (51 yo 45-51 .469) Same as Del Rio

Then there are coaches who might be fired
Mike Shanahan** (61 yo 169-134, .558) Not interested - the Ultimate Leader is past his prime, IMO
Tom Coughlin** (67yo 156-127 .551) He'll leave the Giants on his own terms - if he goes, it's because he's done with the NFL. Don't see him at another franchise.
Rex Ryan (50 yo 39-37 .519) Could be interesting - some see him as a buffoon, personally I think his schtick is an impressive way of taking heat off players and keeping the locker room together. I think he's a good head coach.
Gary Kubiak (51yo 61-64 .488) Same as Del Rio
Mike Smith (54 yo 59-33, .641) If the knock on Schwartz is that he can't get the team over the hump, why would we want Smith?

For me, Homgren and Ryan would be the two most interesting candidates of the established coaches.

Somewhere out there I guess there's an NFL head coaching diamond in the rough, in the college or assistant ranks. Problem is that those promotions are risky. Do you get Trestman or Marinelli? I wouldn't fancy taking a gamble.

Again, all of this comes from the mindset that the NFL is a damn tough league, that consistency is a good path to success and if you look like you have a coach who could get you there then it's probably better to stick with him than gamble elsewhere.


December 10th, 2013, 2:11 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
just throwing this in there - do you guys know that the lions won the coin toss in sunday's game and decided to take the ball? how on earth can anyone possibly defend that decision given the game conditions?


December 10th, 2013, 3:13 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
The Legend wrote:
just throwing this in there - do you guys know that the lions won the coin toss in sunday's game and decided to take the ball? how on earth can anyone possibly defend that decision given the game conditions?


I find it amusing that people get all worked up about whether or not we defer when we win the coin toss. IMHO, it makes absolutely ZERO difference.


December 10th, 2013, 3:18 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
It definitely matters, just not very much.


December 10th, 2013, 3:27 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Funny thing was they had to have a contingency plan incase the coin landed sideways in the snow.

BTW - the forecast was worse for the 2nd half, just didn't turn out that way.

And despite the call on the coin toss, Schwartz certainly is no Mornhinweg...

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December 10th, 2013, 3:38 pm
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