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 Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go 
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
njroar wrote:
And we haven't had back-to-back wins at home for his entire coaching career here, which doesn't bode well for Monday night.

We've not had back to back home wins when we've played at home back to back.

We've had back to back home wins separated by games on the road before - 2 of them in 2011 (in our first 5 games, we beat KC at Ford Field then beat Dallas and the Vikings on the road then beat Chicago at home on MNF, for example). So no boding for Monday night.


December 11th, 2013, 2:26 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
just throwing this in there - do you guys know that the lions won the coin toss in sunday's game and decided to take the ball? how on earth can anyone possibly defend that decision given the game conditions?


As much as I am not liking Schwartz right now, I think it was a smart move. Why? At noon that field wasn't all that bad. As it got closer to game time, that's when the accumulation really got bad. I believe they were thinking that in the second half it would be even worse, and kicking off would be the better option at that time. It didn't quite work out that way, but I think it was a sensible decision.



it doesnt matter if the weather was worse than you can choose to kickoff again in the 2nd half. it may seem ridiculous to some but in that kind of game a lot of the field position is determined by kickoffs and punts moreso than by your offense. the way the lions were stuffing the eagles defense it would ve been perfectably reasonable to defer - if the weather conditions were worse than you kickoff in the 2nd half also and if the conditions are better than you take the ball. you want the advantage later in the game. you cant win games in the 1st quarter in the NFL.


December 11th, 2013, 7:32 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
m2karateman wrote:
Yet another indictment of the coaching staff and their inability to put the team into position to win. I've read a multitude of articles that mimic what is said in here, and have heard numerous analysts say the exact same thing.


Thanks for posting that excellent blog article. It really helps shed a little light on exactly what coaching does and the contribution coaching makes to wins and losses. Aside from the "curse" that the team has suffered, would the Lions be the most attractive team for prospective coaches if they dumped Schwartz? Who is the best, most proven coach available?

Let's do it! It can't get much worse!


December 12th, 2013, 6:13 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
My list thus far (in no particular order) would be:
Mike Zimmer
Jay Gruden (also hearing lots of good stuff about him, not sure if ready tho)
Scott Linehan (he’s been HC before and I like his offense)
John Gruden
Mike Shanahan
Tom Coughlin (if he were to leave NY and wanted another shot)

OR

I might be willing to let Schwartz stay IF he dumps HIS defense and either replaces Gun or let’s Gun run the D as he wants.

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December 12th, 2013, 9:56 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
If the Lions were to fire Schwartz, I'd have to imagine that Cunningham and Linehan would be let go as well. Most head coaches prefer to bring in their own coordinators. I would hope that Mayhew would be smart enough to bring in a coach that wouldn't want to change the nature of the offense or defense, such as switching to a 34 defense, or wanting to move to a power running game. That's one of the reasons why I don't want Shanahan. Besides the fact that I just don't think he's that effective of a coach any longer, his offense usually demands having a strong power running game and a zone blocking scheme. I don't think the Lions personnel is prepared to support that. Ditto running a 34. We have some elements that can make the switch, but for the most part we'd have to endure another roster overhaul to make that work. Not interested.

Mayhew would have to find coaches that are willing to basically maintain the systems we have in place with the roster we have, and then pursue tweaking the culture of this team and finding the remaining pieces of the puzzle necessary to get to the Super Bowl.

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December 12th, 2013, 10:23 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
m2karateman wrote:
Mayhew would have to find coaches that are willing to basically maintain the systems we have in place with the roster we have, and then pursue tweaking the culture of this team and finding the remaining pieces of the puzzle necessary to get to the Super Bowl.


Ahhh, now we are getting somewhere. So we want a big name coach, one who runs a program of discipline, yet one who is just going to bow down and "basically maintain the systems we have in place". LOL, y'all want your cake and eat it too.

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December 12th, 2013, 10:28 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Mayhew would have to find coaches that are willing to basically maintain the systems we have in place with the roster we have, and then pursue tweaking the culture of this team and finding the remaining pieces of the puzzle necessary to get to the Super Bowl.


Ahhh, now we are getting somewhere. So we want a big name coach, one who runs a program of discipline, yet one who is just going to bow down and "basically maintain the systems we have in place". LOL, y'all want your cake and eat it too.


DAMN RIGHT WE DO!!

Why shouldn't we expect it? Other teams have been able to do this, and have been successful. To beat a dead horse, SF and KC brought in new coaches and those coaches didn't upset the apple cart by trying to change the schemes the team ran. They simply held the players more accountable for what was expected from them within that scheme.

It's not an impossible task Pablo. As a matter of fact, it's not even improbable. It's very, very doable.

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December 12th, 2013, 10:43 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Mayhew would have to find coaches that are willing to basically maintain the systems we have in place with the roster we have, and then pursue tweaking the culture of this team and finding the remaining pieces of the puzzle necessary to get to the Super Bowl.


Ahhh, now we are getting somewhere. So we want a big name coach, one who runs a program of discipline, yet one who is just going to bow down and "basically maintain the systems we have in place". LOL, y'all want your cake and eat it too.


DAMN RIGHT WE DO!!

Why shouldn't we expect it? Other teams have been able to do this, and have been successful. To beat a dead horse, SF and KC brought in new coaches and those coaches didn't upset the apple cart by trying to change the schemes the team ran. They simply held the players more accountable for what was expected from them within that scheme.

It's not an impossible task Pablo. As a matter of fact, it's not even improbable. It's very, very doable.


KC brought in Reid who switched to a WCO/pistol offense and changed QBs as well. Guess what position Harbaugh also changed up on his team after moving to more of a read option, oh yeah the QB. Guys like Reid and Harbaugh bring in their schemes and bring in their guys. That's my point. To expect a "name" coach to come to Detroit and not change up schemes/personnel is downright silly.

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December 12th, 2013, 11:09 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Lovie. Keep Linehan as OC. QED.

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December 12th, 2013, 11:24 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Harbough and Reid didn't change the scheme at SF and KC?

Lovie wouldn't change our defensive scheme?


December 12th, 2013, 12:06 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Mayhew would have to find coaches that are willing to basically maintain the systems we have in place with the roster we have, and then pursue tweaking the culture of this team and finding the remaining pieces of the puzzle necessary to get to the Super Bowl.


Ahhh, now we are getting somewhere. So we want a big name coach, one who runs a program of discipline, yet one who is just going to bow down and "basically maintain the systems we have in place". LOL, y'all want your cake and eat it too.


DAMN RIGHT WE DO!!

Why shouldn't we expect it? Other teams have been able to do this, and have been successful. To beat a dead horse, SF and KC brought in new coaches and those coaches didn't upset the apple cart by trying to change the schemes the team ran. They simply held the players more accountable for what was expected from them within that scheme.

It's not an impossible task Pablo. As a matter of fact, it's not even improbable. It's very, very doable.


KC brought in Reid who switched to a WCO/pistol offense and changed QBs as well. Guess what position Harbaugh also changed up on his team after moving to more of a read option, oh yeah the QB. Guys like Reid and Harbaugh bring in their schemes and bring in their guys. That's my point. To expect a "name" coach to come to Detroit and not change up schemes/personnel is downright silly.


Reid switched QB's because Cassel was a failure when the rest of the pieces around him were fine. The rest of the personnel didn't change drastically. Harbaugh changed QB's after he Smith got hurt because the Smith had been there for 8 seasons and never lived up to his contracts. When Kaep proved capable of doing what they wanted to do, then they changed.

Any GM is going to look at who's available and see who's best to fit the scheme they have. A 4-3 without the wide-9 would work, and there's plenty of DC's that run it. And any new coach that came in would run what they have and then switch eventually, if they really wanted to change. And if it's an improvement, who cares? You've been jaded by coaching changes under the Millen regime where draft picks couldn't fit current schemes, let alone any changes. IF we had changes made, I'm pretty sure Mayhew and the scouting department would put together a team much faster that would actually fit a particular scheme.


December 12th, 2013, 12:20 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
agreed for the most part njroar. I just don't want fans expecting a change only in how the team is "disciplined" and "held accountable" - I think it is unrealistic to not expect other changes. I also think it is dangerous to expect an immediate turnaround like KC and San Fran, because those are the exceptions to the rule and these are the Lions we are talking about.

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December 12th, 2013, 1:22 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Scheme change is fine as long at isn't too drastic. Indeed, there might be schemes out there that better fit the Lion's personnel. I think a coach that likes a no-huddle offense could do much more with the Lion's offensive players then Linehan's slow and steady style.

What the Lions don't want is someone like Martz that's wed to his system, and will get rid of star players just because he has no use for them (Olsen in Chicago). But any coach that likes a 4-3 (the majority of them do) and favors vertical passing (far from unpopular), will do.


December 12th, 2013, 2:07 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
UK Lion wrote:
Harbough and Reid didn't change the scheme at SF and KC?

Lovie wouldn't change our defensive scheme?


Ironically enough with all the anger at Hot Rod, our base defense is usually Cover 2.

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December 12th, 2013, 2:44 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
thelomasbrowns wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
Harbough and Reid didn't change the scheme at SF and KC?

Lovie wouldn't change our defensive scheme?


Ironically enough with all the anger at Hot Rod, our base defense is usually Cover 2.

People who think cover 2 doesn't work don't know what they're talking about. Any scheme works if executed properly. If the Cover 2 didn't work, Tampa wouldn't have had so much success with it, and neither would have the Bears. It's a good defensive scheme. Just like a base 4-3 or a base 3-4 also works if executed properly. To paraphrase Bill Parcels: scheme & play calling is overrated; execution is underrated.

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December 12th, 2013, 2:51 pm
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