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 We need to trade Suh. 
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
BillySims wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
Yeah we'd only save about $3M if we trade him and we'll still be over the cap.


We would would save $12 Million. Not 3.


Your figures are wrong. Suh is due $22M and would have $19M in dead money if he was released or traded this off season. If he was a June first cut they could split it between this year and next but that would eliminate any savings to sign FAs. If they don't extend him this season he can void 2015 and the Lions would still have to account for 9M in dead money and get nothing but a comp pick for him at best.


I will go with Pat Kirwan's numbers over yours. We would save $12M.


Got the article where he gave those numbers? The only article I found makes no claims of them saving $12M.

Here's where I got my numbers. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/ndamukong-suh/


February 12th, 2014, 7:40 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
Yeah we'd only save about $3M if we trade him and we'll still be over the cap.


We would would save $12 Million. Not 3.


Your figures are wrong. Suh is due $22M and would have $19M in dead money if he was released or traded this off season. If he was a June first cut they could split it between this year and next but that would eliminate any savings to sign FAs. If they don't extend him this season he can void 2015 and the Lions would still have to account for 9M in dead money and get nothing but a comp pick for him at best.


I will go with Pat Kirwan's numbers over yours. We would save $12M.


Got the article where he gave those numbers? The only article I found makes no claims of them saving $12M.

Here's where I got my numbers. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/ndamukong-suh/


SiriusXM NFL radio. Pat wrote an article about Suh on CBS sports. I am on my iPhone right now. So, I haven't actually seen the article yet. But, I will try to find it later when I can get on my laptop.


February 12th, 2014, 7:47 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
P.S. While I haven't see the article, I can still hear when he talks on the radio.


February 12th, 2014, 7:50 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Oh. And Hechpipe, there is no such animal as a 2nd round comp pick. The 1st comp pick doesn't happen until the end of the 3rd round.


February 12th, 2014, 7:53 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pat ... nged-lions


Here's the Kirwan article. No mention of savings. Billy what you're getting hung up on is Suh's 12M base salary this year. Yes technically we'd "save" that 12M if he's traded because we wouldn't have to pay it. But we'd still have to pay his bonus from this season and next season which combined are over $19M that would hit the cap this year if he's traded. So again, his $22M cap number would only be reduced to around $19M saving us about $3M.


February 12th, 2014, 7:55 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Speaking of comp. picks, the Lions should fetch a good comp pick for Pettigrew when he leaves. Starting TE, drafted in the first round should get that 3rd/4th rounder. In fact, a lot of these players that could be leaving should fetch some comp. picks.
The info I read on comp picks didn't specify where comp. picks draft, just that a formula using playing time, draft position and other factors determine the placement of a pick. I believe it's 3rd round, sounds right to me, but there are good players in the 3rd round. With him totally off the books, the Lions would have his salary and a 3rd round pick to go get another big DT if the Lions need a cornerstone DT. Who knows? Maybe the DT position isn't quite as important in the new defense to warrant that kind of money. Maybe Austin would rather have a big FS or SS or LB and things will dictate that Suh isn't resigned and have resources spent elsewhere.
However, I can't stress enough that it is an absolute given that Suh will produce as a starting DT. You might say he's over-rated or that he should be doing more, but he's gonna pressure the quarterback, he's gonna get some sacks and hurries, he's gonna make some QBs make bad throws. We've seen this since his rookie year.
But if you can tell me with absolute certainty that you know of a draft pick that is absolutely going to produce like Suh in 2014 at a pro-bowl NFL level, maybe you shouldn't be posting to forums. You should be working NFL front offices because even the best of the best can't predict those results. Not the Pats, Steelers, Seahawks or the Broncos.
If you want to race for pink slips, don't do it with the family car. Never gamble more than you're willing to lose.


February 13th, 2014, 1:48 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
HechePipe wrote:
Speaking of comp. picks, the Lions should fetch a good comp pick for Pettigrew when he leaves. Starting TE, drafted in the first round should get that 3rd/4th rounder. In fact, a lot of these players that could be leaving should fetch some comp. picks.
The info I read on comp picks didn't specify where comp. picks draft, just that a formula using playing time, draft position and other factors determine the placement of a pick. I believe it's 3rd round, sounds right to me, but there are good players in the 3rd round. With him totally off the books, the Lions would have his salary and a 3rd round pick to go get another big DT if the Lions need a cornerstone DT. Who knows? Maybe the DT position isn't quite as important in the new defense to warrant that kind of money. Maybe Austin would rather have a big FS or SS or LB and things will dictate that Suh isn't resigned and have resources spent elsewhere.
However, I can't stress enough that it is an absolute given that Suh will produce as a starting DT. You might say he's over-rated or that he should be doing more, but he's gonna pressure the quarterback, he's gonna get some sacks and hurries, he's gonna make some QBs make bad throws. We've seen this since his rookie year.
But if you can tell me with absolute certainty that you know of a draft pick that is absolutely going to produce like Suh in 2014 at a pro-bowl NFL level, maybe you shouldn't be posting to forums. You should be working NFL front offices because even the best of the best can't predict those results. Not the Pats, Steelers, Seahawks or the Broncos.
If you want to race for pink slips, don't do it with the family car. Never gamble more than you're willing to lose.


So, rather than trading him for a 1st and a 3rd rounder with some cap savings, regardless what the actuall amount is, you would rather lose him next year for a comp pick that we wouldn't get for another year? Please keep posting. I would rather have you here than running my favorite team.

No one can tell you the guy we draft to replace him with is going to be as good. I never suggested that would be the case. But, I know this. No team can sustain 3 players making nearly $20M per season. I don't want to trade Suh. I just have come to the conclusion that we have to.


February 13th, 2014, 11:54 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Billy, why are you under the impression that we will certainly lose Suh next year? Arn't we currently in the works with negotiating his next contract?

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February 13th, 2014, 11:57 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
regularjoe12 wrote:
Billy, why are you under the impression that we will certainly lose Suh next year? Arn't we currently in the works with negotiating his next contract?


Are you under some kind of impression that Suh fired his agent and is about to hire JZ so that he can turn around and give the Lions a cap and team friendly deal?

He holds the hammer. He knows it. And he intends to use it.


February 13th, 2014, 12:02 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
BillySims wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
Billy, why are you under the impression that we will certainly lose Suh next year? Arn't we currently in the works with negotiating his next contract?


Are you under some kind of impression that Suh fired his agent and is about to hire JZ so that he can turn around and give the Lions a cap and team friendly deal?

He holds the hammer. He knows it. And he intends to use it.


Its hard to say why he fired his agent. his agent could have said that he didnt want his mother (or was it his sister?) interfiering anymore. Truth is, you dont know any more than i do. but what we do know at this point is even with the agent change, the contract negotiations have not been announced as cancelled.

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February 13th, 2014, 12:29 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
BillySims wrote:
Are you under some kind of impression that Suh fired his agent and is about to hire JZ so that he can turn around and give the Lions a cap and team friendly deal?


No, however I also don't think Suh hired JZ to screw the Lions. First of all, JZ can't directly negotiate on Suh's behalf - he isn't certified as an NFLPA Contract Advisor. Second, ask Victor Cruz if he is happy with the size of his new contract after signing on with Roc Nation Sports. How about Ricky Williams deal with rapper-turned-agent Master P, one of the worst rookie contracts in the history of the NFL with all the $ he left on the table.

Signing with JZ isn't about $, it is about being associated with JZ. It is also looking at the rapper as a marketing whiz who can help market Suh outside of the game of football.

Honestly I'd be way more worried if he signed with someone like a Leigh Steinberg.

You are wanting to try to trade one of the Lions best players because of a contract he hasn't signed yet - that is not how you run a franchise. If Suh was just about money, do you think he would have donated millions and millions already to Nebraska?

Another Billy conspiracy theory at work here keeping things fun in the offseason...

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February 13th, 2014, 12:41 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Really Pablo? Conspiracy?


February 13th, 2014, 2:50 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Suh is a once in a generation talent that, by himself, is worth about 3 other players. Keep him at all costs.


February 13th, 2014, 5:12 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
BillySims wrote:
Really Pablo? Conspiracy?


Yes, you took one action (Suh getting a new agent - now involving two people) to reach another conclusion (a surreptitious plan that the two are just out for a fat contract) when based on past experience with these types of agents is invalid.

As I stated, your conclusion would have rung more true had he signed one of those agents who hold teams feet over the coals until the last minute trying to milk them for every dollar. That just doesn't seem to be the case here.

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February 13th, 2014, 6:14 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
first of all nobody will trade for suh with a 22 million cap hit, however is it possible that the lions can negotiate a trade for suh and allow the trade partner to negotiate a new contract with him? can they work out the deal with him which would lower the cap hit on us by trading him and giving him a long term deal? I have heard of other teams negotiating contracts with players they are interested in trading for, im not sure that could benefit the lions or not.


February 14th, 2014, 2:40 am
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