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 By by Kyle Van Noy. 
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Post Re: By by Kyle Van Noy.
regularjoe12 wrote:
liontrax wrote:
Anybody besides me think the Lions should be open to trading away a couple of over-drafted and under productive players
( Tomlinson & Ebron ) before the Nov. 1st deadline? I realize there are probably alot of Ebron fans that think I'm crazy. I get that. Yes, he's made some great catches, but probably more drive killing drops. Additionally, he seems to me to be soft and often injured and it's a given that he can't or won't block.


Ebron is the best TE we have. Right now the offense is why we are winning games, so I don't think you mess with that. As far a Tomlinson goes, it's a little too early to bail on him yet. It typically takes 3 years for a linemen to develope. He is still in that window.


I would like to see them use Tomlinson on the right side whenever Warford has to come off the field. He played on the right in college and doesn't seem athletic enough for the left. I can also remember multiple times I've seen Tomlinson trip himself up crossing his feet, so maybe the left is just to much of an unnatural position for him. It would be nice to see if Tomlinson could fill in on the right before they have to make a decision on Warford next offseason.


October 29th, 2016, 5:35 pm
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Post Re: By by Kyle Van Noy.
regularjoe12 wrote:
liontrax wrote:
Anybody besides me think the Lions should be open to trading away a couple of over-drafted and under productive players
( Tomlinson & Ebron ) before the Nov. 1st deadline? I realize there are probably alot of Ebron fans that think I'm crazy. I get that. Yes, he's made some great catches, but probably more drive killing drops. Additionally, he seems to me to be soft and often injured and it's a given that he can't or won't block.


Ebron is the best TE we have. Right now the offense is why we are winning games, so I don't think you mess with that. As far a Tomlinson goes, it's a little too early to bail on him yet. It typically takes 3 years for a linemen to develope. He is still in that window.



Ebron hasn't played in the last 3 games, all wins. What's that tell you? As for Tomlinson, trade him now before his value dwindles even more. Warford didn't need 3 years. Tomlinson was just another reach on draft day by the former GM.


October 29th, 2016, 6:01 pm
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Post Re: By by Kyle Van Noy.
liontrax wrote:
Anybody besides me think the Lions should be open to trading away a couple of over-drafted and under productive players
( Tomlinson & Ebron ) before the Nov. 1st deadline? I realize there are probably alot of Ebron fans that think I'm crazy. I get that. Yes, he's made some great catches, but probably more drive killing drops. Additionally, he seems to me to be soft and often injured and it's a given that he can't or won't block.



I would absolutely trade him if you could get something like a 3rd pick for him.


October 29th, 2016, 6:27 pm
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Post Re: By by Kyle Van Noy.
liontrax wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
liontrax wrote:
Anybody besides me think the Lions should be open to trading away a couple of over-drafted and under productive players
( Tomlinson & Ebron ) before the Nov. 1st deadline? I realize there are probably alot of Ebron fans that think I'm crazy. I get that. Yes, he's made some great catches, but probably more drive killing drops. Additionally, he seems to me to be soft and often injured and it's a given that he can't or won't block.


Ebron is the best TE we have. Right now the offense is why we are winning games, so I don't think you mess with that. As far a Tomlinson goes, it's a little too early to bail on him yet. It typically takes 3 years for a linemen to develope. He is still in that window.



Ebron hasn't played in the last 3 games, all wins. What's that tell you? As for Tomlinson, trade him now before his value dwindles even more. Warford didn't need 3 years. Tomlinson was just another reach on draft day by the former GM.


I think Tomlinson profiles as being in a competition with Dahl or possibly a future draft pick for a starting guard spot next year. I dont think Warford has done enough yet to warrant a lucrative 2nd contract from the Lions. Tomlinson on a rookie deal may be more valuable to the Lions than Warford at $6m/year. Reiff is looking at his next deal being $8m/year so keep a close eye on Corey Robinson's development - Robinson has flashed in his new role edge blocking but its been somewhat of a Jekyl and Hyde act. Overall this line has been competent but not good, Quinn should be rightfully hesitant locking in its members with long term pricy deals. On the other hand, I dont think the Lions will get much for Tomlinson in a trade and he hasnt been Kyle Van Noy bad where you just drop him at all costs - I think his unfamiliarity with football has made him more of a project that was thrown into the fire and could benefit from some time to sit back and learn.

With the TE situation - IMO Clay Harbor is now the Lions best TE. He is doing a nice job blocking on the edges and he can catch a ball or two in a pinch. Ebron on the other hand is more of a threat when he s running routes and has showed good hands this year but he is far from dependable as a blocker. He should not be an every down TE the way the Lions were using him earlier in the year. when you have backs like Riddick, Forsett, Abdullah you cant have them running bw the tackles much and have to block the edges - Ebron is just way too unreliable out there. When he went down with the injury the Lions replaced him in there blocking schemes with Corey Robinson, Harbor and Khari Lee and have blocked the edge runs better and more consistently. On top of that Boldin has pretty much filled Ebron's role as a big possession and red zone receiver. I would definitely dangle Ebron in the trade market. if the Lions do end up keeping him he should move to more of a part time role being used in passing situations and stop involving him so heavily in the blocking schemes on strong side off tackle runs. Maybe Ebron can be moved into Boldin s role as a 3rd WR type but even there, the Lions have used Boldin s blocking quite a bit on tunnel screens and quick off the line throws.


October 29th, 2016, 6:44 pm
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Post Re: By by Kyle Van Noy.
The Legend wrote:
liontrax wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
liontrax wrote:
Anybody besides me think the Lions should be open to trading away a couple of over-drafted and under productive players
( Tomlinson & Ebron ) before the Nov. 1st deadline? I realize there are probably alot of Ebron fans that think I'm crazy. I get that. Yes, he's made some great catches, but probably more drive killing drops. Additionally, he seems to me to be soft and often injured and it's a given that he can't or won't block.


Ebron is the best TE we have. Right now the offense is why we are winning games, so I don't think you mess with that. As far a Tomlinson goes, it's a little too early to bail on him yet. It typically takes 3 years for a linemen to develope. He is still in that window.



Ebron hasn't played in the last 3 games, all wins. What's that tell you? As for Tomlinson, trade him now before his value dwindles even more. Warford didn't need 3 years. Tomlinson was just another reach on draft day by the former GM.


I think Tomlinson profiles as being in a competition with Dahl or possibly a future draft pick for a starting guard spot next year. I dont think Warford has done enough yet to warrant a lucrative 2nd contract from the Lions. Tomlinson on a rookie deal may be more valuable to the Lions than Warford at $6m/year. Reiff is looking at his next deal being $8m/year so keep a close eye on Corey Robinson's development - Robinson has flashed in his new role edge blocking but its been somewhat of a Jekyl and Hyde act. Overall this line has been competent but not good, Quinn should be rightfully hesitant locking in its members with long term pricy deals. On the other hand, I dont think the Lions will get much for Tomlinson in a trade and he hasnt been Kyle Van Noy bad where you just drop him at all costs - I think his unfamiliarity with football has made him more of a project that was thrown into the fire and could benefit from some time to sit back and learn.

With the TE situation - IMO Clay Harbor is now the Lions best TE. He is doing a nice job blocking on the edges and he can catch a ball or two in a pinch. Ebron on the other hand is more of a threat when he s running routes and has showed good hands this year but he is far from dependable as a blocker. He should not be an every down TE the way the Lions were using him earlier in the year. when you have backs like Riddick, Forsett, Abdullah you cant have them running bw the tackles much and have to block the edges - Ebron is just way too unreliable out there. When he went down with the injury the Lions replaced him in there blocking schemes with Corey Robinson, Harbor and Khari Lee and have blocked the edge runs better and more consistently. On top of that Boldin has pretty much filled Ebron's role as a big possession and red zone receiver. I would definitely dangle Ebron in the trade market. if the Lions do end up keeping him he should move to more of a part time role being used in passing situations and stop involving him so heavily in the blocking schemes on strong side off tackle runs. Maybe Ebron can be moved into Boldin s role as a 3rd WR type but even there, the Lions have used Boldin s blocking quite a bit on tunnel screens and quick off the line throws.


IMO Ebron's usefulness at TE is really dependent on the quality of line play the Lions can get. The Oline currently needs significant TE help in almost every blocking situation and the injuries to the RBs are pretty devastating on the blocking too. Ebron has his flaws and those flaws are being exacerbated by poor Oline play asking for him to help them by using his worst quality as a TE. Solidify the line and Ebron can focus on doing what he was drafted for and a guy like Harbor can spell him for the obvious running downs while still giving you a sneaky catching threat. With the way things are right now I agree that Harbor should be the main TE, but he isn't a complete TE either. I like the idea of grooming Ebron more into a WR role to take over for Boldin since he is likely just a 1 year piece while still working him as a TE this season or until they can draft/sign a more complete TE. Ebron's blocking shouldn't look as bad when he's got DB that he can maul or a LB moving in coverage on him instead of the DE or a LB blitzing at full speed.


October 30th, 2016, 10:41 am
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Post Re: By by Kyle Van Noy.
If they are thinking about shipping Ebron, now is the time. I read that Bennett is going to IR, IF the pats can offer a decent trade he can go play with Van Noy. But I doubt they offer anything decent.

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October 30th, 2016, 11:48 am
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Post Re: By by Kyle Van Noy.
regularjoe12 wrote:
If they are thinking about shipping Ebron, now is the time. I read that Bennett is going to IR, IF the pats can offer a decent trade he can go play with Van Noy. But I doubt they offer anything decent.


Ebron is one of Stafford's favorite targets when he's healthy (which is obviously not very often). Not opposed to a fire sale, but I don't want to give a first rounder up for peanuts.

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October 30th, 2016, 8:34 pm
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Post Re: By by Kyle Van Noy.
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IMO Ebron's usefulness at TE is really dependent on the quality of line play the Lions can get. The Oline currently needs significant TE help in almost every blocking situation and the injuries to the RBs are pretty devastating on the blocking too. Ebron has his flaws and those flaws are being exacerbated by poor Oline play asking for him to help them by using his worst quality as a TE. Solidify the line and Ebron can focus on doing what he was drafted for and a guy like Harbor can spell him for the obvious running downs while still giving you a sneaky catching threat. With the way things are right now I agree that Harbor should be the main TE, but he isn't a complete TE either. I like the idea of grooming Ebron more into a WR role to take over for Boldin since he is likely just a 1 year piece while still working him as a TE this season or until they can draft/sign a more complete TE. Ebron's blocking shouldn't look as bad when he's got DB that he can maul or a LB moving in coverage on him instead of the DE or a LB blitzing at full speed.


Agree with you and it helps that Ebron looked good today.


October 30th, 2016, 8:51 pm
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