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 Who stays Who Goes? 
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Post Who stays Who Goes?
know there are depth charts out there, but I dont know Im sold on every position just yet

1. Free Safety.. The signing of R.W. makes me think Holt may not be ready, or The Lions brain trust feels the secondary can't stay healthy? Does cash or Goodman get unseated?

2. Wide Receiver.. Who will be the #1 and #2, and do you think the Lions will use KJ2 more often to sustain a drive and then bring in BMW nearing the Red Zone? The most recent news is R.Williams is the flanker and Charles Rogers is the Split end:Is that a good move?

3. Running Back.. KJ is the starter... Who makes the team besides him.. Jamel White or Artose Pinner / Shawn Bryson?

4. Defensive End.. Will Shaun Cody or Bill Swancutt get the start over Cory redding or Kalimba Edwards? If Big Daddy decides to call it quits would Marcus Bell fill his shoes or Shaun Cody?

5. Line Backer.. Who will be the starting three... Boss/Lehman on the Outside with Earl Holmes in the MIddle? Where does Alex Lewis fit in?

6. Center.. Who will get the back up Job behind Raiola.. Tyrone Hopson or Guiterrez <sp.>?

7. Wide Receiver(again).. who will win the # 5 spot? Scotty Vines, David Kircus, Adam Hertzing, Steve Savoy, Another?

8. Tight End.. Is casey fitzsimmons going to get the Job or can Jason Randall (MSU I think) take it from him?

9. Any Sleepers in Camp right now that you think might make the team that no one else is considering?

10. Who will be on our Practice squad? I think a team can have 8 players per the CBA ( I may be wrong here )


June 15th, 2005, 10:43 am
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1 - I believe Holt is good to go. There was an article on Scout.com about how Holt is emerging as a leader. He seems like a solid starter. I can't imagine they think the secondary can stay completely healthy. There are so many injuries among the secondaries in the league, you have to prepare for it. I think RWMQ is just a better backup than a Cash or Goodman...he's 3 fold better than Walker!

2 - Roy and CRog. Most money invested, least proven. These guys are going to be the guys to help Joey out. KJ2 (as Brian says) will have a much bigger year than most people think, I agree.

3 - I think Tose and Bryson will make the team. White had the edge in that he could return kicks...but we got RWMQ now. That may be the point to give Tose the edge.

4 - Kalimba and Hall will start IMO. I don't think Redding is all that good, he's decent at best IMO. Cody will backup at DT and take over when Big Daddy gets the boot (next year I think). Swancutt has to prove himself in order to make the team, hopefully he'll bump out DeVries.

5 - Boss/Holmes/Dirty Davis. I think Lehman will eventually take over for Holmes and see a lot of plays on third downs because Holmes sucks in coverage. I think Alex Lewis is going to be a stud, given time. He'll see more time this year at WSOLB.

6 - Hopson was with 'em last year, so I think he's got the heads up as far as the play calling, etc. However, Guitierrez has the experience and is probably the better player. I think Guit will make it. Hopson on the PS.

7 - Totally open. I liked what I saw out of Vines last year. I think Kircus is terrible. I've heard good stuff about Herzing, even read an article where Mooch was praising him. :shock: Savoy will probably be on the PS.

8 - I think Fitz will backup Pollard. Randall on the PS. Pollard is a quick 2 year fix. They need to groom a replacement (they'll draft one next year I think).

9 - Tough call. I don't see any shockers happening right now. Keith Smith might beat RWMQ out for the nickel spot. Stanley Wilson might see some reps at FS...it's a possibility.

10 - I think it's 8 as well, not sure though. Jason Randall, Steve Savoy, Jon Goddard, Tyrone Hopson, Jamel White, Vernon Fox, a crappy OG, and Brandon Kennedy (the egg).


June 15th, 2005, 11:04 am
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Whats up with Brandon Kennedy anyways? He just make the team as part of his big brothers (kenoy) contract/deal with the team?


June 15th, 2005, 11:12 am
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1. I believe Holt stays as the free safety, and McQuarters will back him up and be used as our nickel corner. Goodman and Cash both get the heave ho, with Bryant, Bly, Smith and Wilson also remaining on the roster. I still wish we could find someone else to be the SS backup other than Walker.

2. CRog will be the flanker, or #1 receiver. Roy gets the split end spot (#2). Johnson will most likely backup CRog and BMW will be the split end backup. Most likely the slot position will be manned based on the situation by either KJ or BMW. In the red zone it will most definitely be BMW that is out there.

3. Jones, Bryson and Pinner. White only stays if Drummond somehow doesn't get signed and placed onto the roster. Pinner should be used as a short yardage specialist, and the staff should be training him accordingly.

4. Probably the biggest question on the roster. Hall and Redding stay for sure, and they will most likely be the starters. Redding isn't a pass rusher, so that's why I think Edwards will stay as a situational pass rusher. Swancutt will have to impress in camp and pre-season to stay on the active roster. DeVries is valued as a back up. Cody will be strictly used as a tackle, IMHO. Will the Lions keep four or five DE's on the roster? Last year they kept five until Porcher retired.

5. If everyone is healthy, the Lions should use Bailey (S), Holmes (M) and Lehman (W). However, Lehman is working out as the backup at strong and middle. Those three would represent our best players on the field, IMO. However, in all likelihood it will be Bailey (S), Lehman (M) and Davis (W). Rainer, Curry and Lewis stay as backups, with Lewis being used in nickel situations as a blitzer/cover specialist. If Lehman gets the nod at Mike, Holmes will be a late pre-season cut.

6. I wonder if they will have a backup there at all? Since both Woody and Demulling can play center, do we really need a backup there. Most likely between Hopson, BG and Loverne, the best player will stay as a backup. Last year the Lions kept eight offensive linemen on the roster at the beginning of the season. If they keep nine this year, most likely Loverne and BG stay.

7. Vines will most likely get this spot, unless Mooch chooses to be stupid again and only keep five total receivers on the roster at the beginning of the season like he did last year. Savoy will be a practice squader as will Herzing. Say bye-bye to the Circus.

8. Fitz has great hands. However, the backup tight end is usually a strong blocker, which Fitz needs help with. At this point it's tough to tell. I think Randall spends a year on the PS with Fitz playing backup to Pollard.

9. Two I like. Will Matthews as the backup fullback instead of Paul Smith. As I recall, Smith absolutely sucked playing fullback during pre-season last year. He missed blocks all over the place and couldn't catch an STD from a heroin addicted, 50 year old hooker. Matthews was a big reason why Cedric Benson got the yards he did. The other player I like is DE Andrew Shull. I remember watching him play last year in pre-season and he was constantly around the ball and making plays. I thought he deserved a shot on the roster. If he plays as well this year, the Lions should consider him. He got to the QB pretty well.

10. Yes, the maximum is eight players. My predictions: Savoy, Herzing, Shull, Randall, Brandon Kennedy, Jonathan Goddard, Sean Bubin and Cliff Johnson. Total guess.

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June 15th, 2005, 11:47 am
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Mike stole my thunder. Great job reading Mooch and Millen tealeaves mate. :D

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June 15th, 2005, 12:26 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
9. Two I like. Will Matthews as the backup fullback instead of Paul Smith. As I recall, Smith absolutely sucked playing fullback during pre-season last year. He missed blocks all over the place and couldn't catch an STD from a heroin addicted, 50 year old hooker. Matthews was a big reason why Cedric Benson got the yards he did.


Finally someone else on here that likes Will Matthews and noticed that he was one of the reasons Cedric Benson got the yards he did @ UT.

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June 15th, 2005, 1:17 pm
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Will Matthews and Jamel White will definitely be on the team imo. White has speed, which the Lions love, and seems like the true 3rd-down type back the Lions haven't had in recent years. Matthews, I don't know all that much about him, but I just have a feeling about him that he's going to be the FB-in-waiting while Sledge finishes up the last year or two of his career.

So I guess that leaves Bryson and Pinner fighting for the last back spot. Tough call there, I feel it depends on whether Jones can pick up those blitz assignments. If he can, then Bryson will probably be gone. If he can't they probably have to keep Bryson around.


June 15th, 2005, 2:19 pm
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I think Bryson is a vaulble member of the team. He isn't a starter, but he is more elusive than Jones and is more of a recieving threat.

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June 15th, 2005, 2:32 pm
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Mattews definitly makes the team. Without him, benson could have been a second round pick. I think he owes Mattews a cut of his signing bonus.


June 15th, 2005, 4:11 pm
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I think we keep Gutierrez and lose Shirley's girfriend. If Riola goes down and we put DeMulling at center to replace him then we leave a big hole at left guard that Loverne has already prove he can't fill. Maybe we need another guard or a Tackle (Verba or Gragg).

Some Biking fan accused us of payin to get a team (which they too did). Well, let's pay for some quality players and get this bus moving.

Joey needs to resructure, then we bring in Darren Howard and leave Cody at DT. Sign The safety the Jets just let go, Tonque I believe, cut Walker, Cash, Goodman, Holmes and LOVERNE

Then let's play ball!!!!!


June 15th, 2005, 7:36 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
1. I believe Holt stays as the free safety, and McQuarters will back him up and be used as our nickel corner. Goodman and Cash both get the heave ho, with Bryant, Bly, Smith and Wilson also remaining on the roster. I still wish we could find someone else to be the SS backup other than Walker.
guess.


I agree with McQuarters being a backup FS and nickel corner but I have to think they would cut vernon fox and keep goodman OR cash... I always thought cash was decent when healthy.

Quote:
2. CRog will be the flanker, or #1 receiver. Roy gets the split end spot (#2). Johnson will most likely backup CRog and BMW will be the split end backup. Most likely the slot position will be manned based on the situation by either KJ or BMW. In the red zone it will most definitely be BMW that is out there.


I had to go back and find the article but you are incorrect... this is from kffl:

Lions | M. Williams Working Multiple Spots - from www.KFFL.com
Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:49:56 -0700

Curt Sylvester, of the Detroit Free Press, reports Detroit Lions rookie WR Mike Williams is learning to play multiple spots. Although head coach Steve Mariucci has him listed as the backup to WR Charles Rogers at the split end position, Williams is also learning the plays as the backup to WR Roy Williams at the flanker spot and he has also run plays from the slot position on both sides of the formation. "It's kind of good that you put yourself in a position to play more," Williams said. "The more you know, the more coaches feel you can help them." QB Joey Harrington is looking forward to having Rogers, Roy Williams and Mike Williams as three red-zone targets in 2005.

Quote:
3. Jones, Bryson and Pinner. White only stays if Drummond somehow doesn't get signed and placed onto the roster. Pinner should be used as a short yardage specialist, and the staff should be training him accordingly.


I dont pretend to know what will happen here but I thought they might keep White over pinner because of his return experience. R.W. handles punts, White Kickoffs.. IF eddie cant play the whole season???? but I dont know

4 & 5 I agree those are both excellent scenarios

Quote:
6. I wonder if they will have a backup there at all? Since both Woody and Demulling can play center, do we really need a backup there. Most likely between Hopson, BG and Loverne, the best player will stay as a backup. Last year the Lions kept eight offensive linemen on the roster at the beginning of the season. If they keep nine this year, most likely Loverne and BG stay.


I figured they got Kosier too, but he could end up playing RT still? Its Kelly Butlers job to lose at this point though.. I d rather see our guards stay put if this guiterrez guy is good. but I dont know anything about him

I like your scenarios for 7 & 8 too, this Randall guy is supposed to be good!

9. I heard of Will Mathews in the Mooch interviews but never Andrew Schull.. Whos this guy?? anyone?


June 15th, 2005, 11:03 pm
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I don't think Matthews makes the team, as we have a fullback, as well as a runningback in Bryson who has spent time at fullback. He will be on the practice squad.

I don't think Goddard will be on the practice squad. He'll make the roster. If Alex Lewis and James Davis could, then you have to leave a spot open for Goddard. He had 16 sacks last year, that has to account for something.

BTW - did you realize that we drafted 2 players in the top 5 of the NCAA in sacks? Who says we didn't improve our pass rush? http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/defense/MFB_2005_18_4_stats36.html

I had heard that Holt has the starting free safety job, and that McQuarters is going to provide depth at corner and free safety. Same ordeal for Butler at RT, with Rogers/Kosier providing depth. Kosier is a guard/tackle backup, basically a priority backup.

White will be a very interesting player to watch. He's on the border of making the team and not, it depends on Pinner as well as Drummond. He was signed for kickoff returns as well as RB depth, but now we have 2 kick returners.

Kalimba will start conversion? Uh... no? Kalimba probably won't even make the team with the drafting of Goddard as well has his off-field problems. He hasn't produced, can't do anything but situational pass rushing, and we have other linemen. DeVries is better than him, and Swancutt may even have an edge on him.

Bryson definitely won't be gone. He is MUCH better than Pinner and White. He is our #2 runningback.


June 16th, 2005, 1:21 am
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Brian wrote:
White will be a very interesting player to watch. He's on the border of making the team and not, it depends on Pinner as well as Drummond. He was signed for kickoff returns as well as RB depth, but now we have 2 kick returners.



I always heard that R.W. was a good punt returner, and White is a good Kick Returner.. if that is the case do we keep him?


June 20th, 2005, 9:41 am
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Ferris wrote:
I had to go back and find the article but you are incorrect... this is from kffl:

Lions | M. Williams Working Multiple Spots - from www.KFFL.com
Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:49:56 -0700

Curt Sylvester, of the Detroit Free Press, reports Detroit Lions rookie WR Mike Williams is learning to play multiple spots. Although head coach Steve Mariucci has him listed as the backup to WR Charles Rogers at the split end position, Williams is also learning the plays as the backup to WR Roy Williams at the flanker spot and he has also run plays from the slot position on both sides of the formation. "It's kind of good that you put yourself in a position to play more," Williams said. "The more you know, the more coaches feel you can help them." QB Joey Harrington is looking forward to having Rogers, Roy Williams and Mike Williams as three red-zone targets in 2005.


I read this article after I posted in this thread. I wonder why Mooch is making this change? Is the split end position 'safer' for Rogers (ie. less contact)? Or is this a ploy to try and free up Charles in more man to man single coverage matchups? Most folks know that whoever lines up at flanker is the primary receiver most of the time in Steve's offensive scheme. Could it be he's trying to motivate Charles into 'winning' the flanker position back? Interesting......

As for how they are working BMW at all three positions, that's a brilliant move. They should do the same with Kevin Johnson. With the receivers knowing all the different positions, the Lions could create matchup problems all over the place with opposing defenses. And it means that BMW can step right in without having to ramp up his learning pace.

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Last edited by m2karateman on June 20th, 2005, 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.



June 20th, 2005, 10:06 am
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Quote:
Is the split end position 'safer' for Rogers (ie. less contact)? Or is this a ploy to try and free up Charles in more man to man single coverage matchups?


M2K... I thought about the move and personally beleive it plays to both receivers strengths... Rogers at split end will line up on the line of scrimmage, he is notorious (at least in 5 games) at beating jams, making cuts, and creating seperation in a hurry... It works for him

Roy Williams at flanker is perfect too cuz he will be lined up off the line of scrimmage and can go into motion... which means when Joey/Jeff sees a mismatch on one side of the field for KJ Roy can go take a blocking assignment as he is a great blocker and can open up holes, and it makes beating jams easier for RW who has more of a vertical quickness, than true straightline speed.. though he's fast at both... I did see another article that said they would move receivers around in the postions though to create mismatches every chance they get... I like the move, and its pry a Tollner move more than anything else


June 20th, 2005, 10:28 am
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