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 Caldwell. 
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Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin
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Post Re: Caldwell.
I'm sorry guys, it's not on Quinn to put 11 men on the field every play. It's not on Quinn that the lions have the worst record in the nfl when it comes to challenges. It's not Quinn who decides when to go for a fg or go for it on 4th down. It's not on Quinn when we abandon the run early in the 4th quarter when we have a 1 point lead in a game where we are actually running pretty well. (Cincy game) it's not on Quinn when we give up a 10-14 point lead in the first 5 minutes of the game 4 games in a row.

I saw Quinn do a mad dash scramble and kick the tires on almost everything when we lost our LT late in FA. I saw Quinn bring in a sack specialist late in the season when the playoffs were still possible. He did pass on a RB, but we do have a stable of guys with potential. How is it Quinn's fault that riddick (arguably one of the biggest recieviving threats out of the backfield in the NFL) only caught 13 balls through the first 6-8 games. It's not Quinn's fault that zenner didn't even dress for 1/2 the games, when he was our best RB last year. Zenner has like 15 carries on the season! His biggest competionion last year was Washington....20 carries on the season. How is that on Quinn??

I'm not saying Quinn is the greatest...but he's doing what a GM should be doing. This season sits squarely on the coaching staff, and they flat out failed. Jim bob was the biggest Disapointment this year. He backslid big time this year.

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December 30th, 2017, 12:46 pm
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Post Re: Caldwell.
I think its almost a certainty that Caldwell will be fired. Reports are out there that Quinn is going to go after Patricia the Patriots Defensive Coordinator. Wikipedia already lists Patricia as the next head coach of the Detroit Lions.

On an interesting side note, Jim Schwartz appears to be the leading candidate for the New York Giants head coaching job. Schwartz is a great football mind but which Jim was the better coach for the Detroit Lions?

Patricia hiring looks a lot like the Schwartz hiring did...Given Quinn's past with the Patriots, it certainly doesnt appear initially that the Lions are doing a real thorough search. Looks like following more of the inbred route that Ford was always criticized for. When it comes to the Patriots and emulating them - unless ur getting Brady or Belichick your probably not getting much. Just look at the Belichick coordinators and how they ve done. Crennel, Weis, McDaniels, Mangini, OBrien? Cmon...lets not just repeat the same mistakes others have already made.


December 30th, 2017, 11:01 pm
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Post Re: Caldwell.
Schwartz's problem here was lack of talent. Millen and then Mayhew mismanaged the cap that allowed them to have a few great players, but overall balance on the roster was terrible. Quinn didn't do much to address the obvious issue at DE, but that was exasperated by Ngata going down. The pass rush looked different while he was still healthy and that type of replacement is hard to find outside of the offseason. The RB situation is one that from a personnel issue, they should have felt comfortable with, but the coaching never changed, even with the emphasis they said they were going to put into it. That's on Quinn for trusting the coaching staff to improve and they obviously didn't. You can criticize individual picks, but the overall roster balance is the best we've had in decades. There's always room for improvement, but Quinn's at least given whoever is at the helm, a chance to succeed. You can't say that for Millen or Mayhew.

As for Patricia, I think he'll make a good head coach. All the names you rattled off, they looked for their turn at the first whiff of success. Patricia has been there since 2004 and coached on both sides of the ball. He didn't rush off to make a name for himself, he stuck around and learned. If he feels he's ready, it might be a great fit.


December 30th, 2017, 11:48 pm
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Post Re: Caldwell.
The Legend wrote:
I think its almost a certainty that Caldwell will be fired. Reports are out there that Quinn is going to go after Patricia the Patriots Defensive Coordinator. Wikipedia already lists Patricia as the next head coach of the Detroit Lions.

On an interesting side note, Jim Schwartz appears to be the leading candidate for the New York Giants head coaching job. Schwartz is a great football mind but which Jim was the better coach for the Detroit Lions?

Patricia hiring looks a lot like the Schwartz hiring did...Given Quinn's past with the Patriots, it certainly doesnt appear initially that the Lions are doing a real thorough search. Looks like following more of the inbred route that Ford was always criticized for. When it comes to the Patriots and emulating them - unless ur getting Brady or Belichick your probably not getting much. Just look at the Belichick coordinators and how they ve done. Crennel, Weis, McDaniels, Mangini, OBrien? Cmon...lets not just repeat the same mistakes others have already made.


Caldwell was surely the better coach for the Lions. Caldwell brought in JBC and helped Stafford take the next step in his progression. Schwartz had no lasting effect on the team outside of the atrocious rep it took 2 seasons of roster turnover to change.

Ian Rapoport was suggesting that the hiring of Patricia would allow the return of JBC. I'm not sure if I like that or not. On one hand it leaves continuity intact for what should be the strongest part of the team, but on the other we are stuck with another season of can JBC learn how the run game works. I'd much rather see McDaniels, but Patricia is the guy that's been getting all the press over the last couple years as being a Belichick clone. Not to mention that even though the Pats defenses have been just average to terrible at times while Patricia has been the DC, they have still always been pretty strong in the red zone where it really matters. I'll be really curious to see who Patricia keeps as assistants and who he brings with him if he were to be hired. There could be a few different top tier former and current DCs available this offseason.


December 31st, 2017, 12:47 am
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Post Re: Caldwell.
njroar wrote:
Schwartz's problem here was lack of talent. Millen and then Mayhew mismanaged the cap that allowed them to have a few great players, but overall balance on the roster was terrible. Quinn didn't do much to address the obvious issue at DE, but that was exasperated by Ngata going down. The pass rush looked different while he was still healthy and that type of replacement is hard to find outside of the offseason. The RB situation is one that from a personnel issue, they should have felt comfortable with, but the coaching never changed, even with the emphasis they said they were going to put into it. That's on Quinn for trusting the coaching staff to improve and they obviously didn't. You can criticize individual picks, but the overall roster balance is the best we've had in decades. There's always room for improvement, but Quinn's at least given whoever is at the helm, a chance to succeed. You can't say that for Millen or Mayhew.

As for Patricia, I think he'll make a good head coach. All the names you rattled off, they looked for their turn at the first whiff of success. Patricia has been there since 2004 and coached on both sides of the ball. He didn't rush off to make a name for himself, he stuck around and learned. If he feels he's ready, it might be a great fit.


Huh? The 2011 Lions were the most talented team that this franchise has had since the early 90s. These last 2 teams the Lions have had, have worse line play on both sides - the only advantage they have is a QB thats gotten better and can raise the play of the players around him and better overall leadership from the head coach. Kudos to Jim Caldwell on that front. Caldwell s teams have overachieved in 3/4 seasons and develop young players, I dont take that for granted. I think he makes enough mistakes during games (not nearly as many as Schwartz did) that he should probably be replaced. Do we really want a guy that celebrates a SuperBowl by wearing a t-shirt with a clown nose on the commissioner's face? We ve been down this road with the smart defensive coach thats arrogant and cant turn the other cheek. Id rather see more of a thorough search and ideally a guy thats been a successful head coach like Gruden, Cowher, Coughlin, Arians Dungy etc - a guy that would have no problem filling out his coaching staff.

As for the cap issues - that was a league rule, Mayhew could ve maybe traded out of those picks but the rule has been changed bc it was putting the worse teams at a competitive disadvantage.

The bigger issue is will Quinn impose his will at all during the offseason? Will he just sit there again and bc he didnt get great value come in to the year with massive holes again. He s already squandered 2 of Stafford's 4-5 prime years, whats another 1 or 2 installing a new coach's system and feeling out new coordinators, waiting for 6th rounders to develop, waiting for coach to get his own rookie mistakes out of his system, etc? This is a team that can compete with a few personnel additions in the right spots but Quinn doesnt seem to see it that way and has approached it as more of a rebuild.


December 31st, 2017, 1:13 pm
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Post Re: Caldwell.
The Legend wrote:
njroar wrote:
Schwartz's problem here was lack of talent. Millen and then Mayhew mismanaged the cap that allowed them to have a few great players, but overall balance on the roster was terrible. Quinn didn't do much to address the obvious issue at DE, but that was exasperated by Ngata going down. The pass rush looked different while he was still healthy and that type of replacement is hard to find outside of the offseason. The RB situation is one that from a personnel issue, they should have felt comfortable with, but the coaching never changed, even with the emphasis they said they were going to put into it. That's on Quinn for trusting the coaching staff to improve and they obviously didn't. You can criticize individual picks, but the overall roster balance is the best we've had in decades. There's always room for improvement, but Quinn's at least given whoever is at the helm, a chance to succeed. You can't say that for Millen or Mayhew.

As for Patricia, I think he'll make a good head coach. All the names you rattled off, they looked for their turn at the first whiff of success. Patricia has been there since 2004 and coached on both sides of the ball. He didn't rush off to make a name for himself, he stuck around and learned. If he feels he's ready, it might be a great fit.


Huh? The 2011 Lions were the most talented team that this franchise has had since the early 90s. These last 2 teams the Lions have had, have worse line play on both sides - the only advantage they have is a QB thats gotten better and can raise the play of the players around him and better overall leadership from the head coach. Kudos to Jim Caldwell on that front. Caldwell s teams have overachieved in 3/4 seasons and develop young players, I dont take that for granted. I think he makes enough mistakes during games (not nearly as many as Schwartz did) that he should probably be replaced. Do we really want a guy that celebrates a SuperBowl by wearing a t-shirt with a clown nose on the commissioner's face? We ve been down this road with the smart defensive coach thats arrogant and cant turn the other cheek. Id rather see more of a thorough search and ideally a guy thats been a successful head coach like Gruden, Cowher, Coughlin, Arians Dungy etc - a guy that would have no problem filling out his coaching staff.

As for the cap issues - that was a league rule, Mayhew could ve maybe traded out of those picks but the rule has been changed bc it was putting the worse teams at a competitive disadvantage.

The bigger issue is will Quinn impose his will at all during the offseason? Will he just sit there again and bc he didnt get great value come in to the year with massive holes again. He s already squandered 2 of Stafford's 4-5 prime years, whats another 1 or 2 installing a new coach's system and feeling out new coordinators, waiting for 6th rounders to develop, waiting for coach to get his own rookie mistakes out of his system, etc? This is a team that can compete with a few personnel additions in the right spots but Quinn doesnt seem to see it that way and has approached it as more of a rebuild.


Yes, the 2011 roster was better than we had up to that point but outside of a few big names, it was devoid of talent in comparison to now top to bottom. The Oline play would have been better this season had Decker not gone down in the preseason. The running game is no better. Remember 2011, they only ran 33% of the time because it wasn't effective. Ngata's injury effected the DL. The personnel they have did ok, but due to lack of depth after the injury, they played too many snaps decreasing their effectiveness. We already know about the hole at DE.

The cap rule for the draft only effected the top players. It didn't effect the deals on resigns or pushing money to future years that Millen and Mayhew loved to do to everyone including free agents. You'd pay extra for Suh, CJ and Stafford if they were sticking around, but not for players they rented for a year. That is what killed our cap, not having the top pick alone.

Gruden, Cowher, Coughlin, and Arians are all arrogant coaches that get in players faces. So, yes I want that attitude in a head coach. A "player's coach" that is too nice to his players, like Caldwell creates the environment where they can have those tackling issues and giving up on plays that we've seen throughout the Caldwell years. Yes, the players are being developed better than in the past, but there has been a lack of accountability. Wearing an Anti-Goodell t-shirt when the entire team felt wronged by the league is sticking by your team. I have no issue with that at all.

We aren't in need of a rebuild. Stafford isn't going to suddenly forget how to play. You need a blocking scheme that works, better than a rudimentary understanding of a run game and he improves even more. Even the current backs would improve. Any draft pick there just makes us better. Strengthen the defensive line, both DE and DT, and your back 7 are still set. Voila, we're better than this season. Replacing a coach doesn't mean you have to replace everyone. Those days are gone. The Last two years were long-term thinking so you don't have to go through a rebuild ever again. Sure, it's not win now, but in the long run, it's a better philosophy for the team.


December 31st, 2017, 4:00 pm
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Post Re: Caldwell.
well if caldwell had any chance at sticking around then this would have to be the performance he needed.


December 31st, 2017, 4:19 pm
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Post Re: Caldwell.
The Legend wrote:
well if caldwell had any chance at sticking around then this would have to be the performance he needed.


You mean by letting our rookie MLB guard Cobb instead of out Pro Bowl CB Slay?


December 31st, 2017, 4:29 pm
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Post Re: Caldwell.
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Yes, the 2011 roster was better than we had up to that point but outside of a few big names, it was devoid of talent in comparison to now top to bottom. The Oline play would have been better this season had Decker not gone down in the preseason. The running game is no better. Remember 2011, they only ran 33% of the time because it wasn't effective. Ngata's injury effected the DL. The personnel they have did ok, but due to lack of depth after the injury, they played too many snaps decreasing their effectiveness. We already know about the hole at DE.


disagree that the current roster is better, strongly disagree. i think ngata is solid no longer a star but the depth at DT and DE has been an absolute joke. thats on quinn. same with LB. caldwell/austin are using 6th rounders and other teams garbage out there. they have a good secondary filled with Mayhew s players. im not sure quinn has made the dl or lb unit better, they look worse to me, much worse.

Quote:
The cap rule for the draft only effected the top players. It didn't effect the deals on resigns or pushing money to future years that Millen and Mayhew loved to do to everyone including free agents. You'd pay extra for Suh, CJ and Stafford if they were sticking around, but not for players they rented for a year. That is what killed our cap, not having the top pick alone.


mayhew had a playoff team and didnt want to sit on his hands, salary cap is not the reason they were worse in 2012 and 2013...that was entirely on schwartz his horrible in game management and terrible overall leadership. mayhew and his pro personnel director sheldon white were actually really good in free agency, his drafts fell off the map mostly bc of injury but thats an excuse you reserve only for quinn but not for caldwell or anyone else.

Quote:
Gruden, Cowher, Coughlin, and Arians are all arrogant coaches that get in players faces. So, yes I want that attitude in a head coach. A "player's coach" that is too nice to his players, like Caldwell creates the environment where they can have those tackling issues and giving up on plays that we've seen throughout the Caldwell years. Yes, the players are being developed better than in the past, but there has been a lack of accountability. Wearing an Anti-Goodell t-shirt when the entire team felt wronged by the league is sticking by your team. I have no issue with that at all.


this is the same back and forth drivel that we ve heard a million times. when the coach is a disciplinarian your next coach is a players coach and vice versa. mostly its proven to be total BS that might have a 6 month or so effect. caldwell i believe is somewhere in the middle, he s not a softy like ur suggesting and outside maybe golden tate i dont remember a player giving up on much during his era. caldwell s team s have had unbelievable comebacks, even this year down 35 against new orleans they made it a game. not sure whats making u suggest lions giving up. where is there a lack of accountability? he even benched stafford!

Quote:
We aren't in need of a rebuild. Stafford isn't going to suddenly forget how to play. You need a blocking scheme that works, better than a rudimentary understanding of a run game and he improves even more. Even the current backs would improve. Any draft pick there just makes us better. Strengthen the defensive line, both DE and DT, and your back 7 are still set. Voila, we're better than this season. Replacing a coach doesn't mean you have to replace everyone. Those days are gone. The Last two years were long-term thinking so you don't have to go through a rebuild ever again. Sure, it's not win now, but in the long run, it's a better philosophy for the team.


then u dont bring in a guy like patricia who s done nothing on his own but babysit a unit micromanaged by belichik himself a defensive coach. you bring in an established head coach. the last two years were wasted by fear of the rapidly escalating salary cap, which is nowhere near as tight as the past. time for quinn to make his move with a couple win now personnel moves - if anything he would be complicating it by firing a winning coach and bringing in a rookie coach riding on the coattails of the greatest QB/HC/GM combo in league.


December 31st, 2017, 4:48 pm
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Post Re: Caldwell.
Can't wait to see who Quinn hires, and what that brings. Do we stick with the 4-3 defense? Who will be the next OC and DC?


December 31st, 2017, 6:49 pm
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Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin
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Post Re: Caldwell.
Am I the only one here who wants us to look at fox? I think he overachieved in Chicago. I know what their record is, but I also know they have maybe 1 WRthat would even make our practice squad. You can't win in today's league if no one can catch the ball. I personally think Chicago has one of the best front 7 on defense in the league...and a couple of those guys play for Chicago because they followed fox.

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December 31st, 2017, 9:50 pm
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Post Re: Caldwell.
It's official, Caldwell is gone.

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January 1st, 2018, 10:04 am
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Post Re: Caldwell.
Grink wrote:
It's official, Caldwell is gone.

EXCELLENT!!!


January 1st, 2018, 10:58 am
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Post Re: Caldwell.
Just posting this here since Patricia was compared to Crennel and Wies. Patricia is not the same. This is from November btw.

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2016/11/28/nfl- ... ts-defense


January 1st, 2018, 2:26 pm
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Post Re: Caldwell.
I dont think patricia would be bad but i think shurmur would be the best candidate. The Vikings offense should not be as good as it is


January 1st, 2018, 3:31 pm
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