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 Ansah. 
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Martha Firestone Ford
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Post Re: Ansah.
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
rao wrote:
Transition tag is probably going to be near $14M for DE. I would like to see Ansah brought back, but not for that kind of money. He's going to get overpaid by someone, so why hamstring your money just to decline to match?


Because that is the only way to make sure we get more than just a 4th round pick for him. That is what the very 1st comp pick is. Nothing more than a 4th round pick.


Ansah is an unrestricted free agent. They can only use the Franchise tag or transition tag to tender him. The transition tag provides no compensation if you refuse to match. The franchise tag will cost around $16M-$17M for DEs in 2018, you cannot tender an injury prone guy like Ansah for that much money. He would instantly sign his tender and you would destroy the cap space.

The very first compensatory pick is usually the end of the 3rd round, but I do believe the league could award a higher round if they ever wanted too.

I wouldn't even expect the Lions to receive a comp pick for Ansah. It's very likely they sign a FA of better or equal value. IMO the only way the Lions get value from Ansah leaving is with the FT and I think you would have to be an idiot to do that unless your committed to keeping him.


The very first comp pick comes AT THE END of the third round. It is what used to be the 1st pick of the 4th round. You can use semantics and insist that it is a 3rd round pick all you want. Really it is a 4th round pick.

And everyone always says that if a FA leaves and you sign a guy to stop the bleeding, that you won’t get a comp pick. That is crap. There is so much that goes into the awarding of comp picks. Original round the guy you lost is a factor as well as how much he signed for with the new team all put into comparison with the guy you signed. Along with about another dozen factors.


The pick happens before the first pick of the 4th round so it is a 3rd round pick. That is a fact.

It's not crap to say the Lions wont get a comp pick for Ansah because with how much money they have available and a new coach it is almost a sure thing they will sign a FA of greater or equal value to Ansah. Also to get comp picks you have to lose more FAs than you sign and there is very little chance that happens with a new coach coming in.


Pretty sure you swore we wouldn’t get a comp pick for Suh also.


January 4th, 2018, 9:23 am
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Post Re: Ansah.
BillySims wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
rao wrote:
Transition tag is probably going to be near $14M for DE. I would like to see Ansah brought back, but not for that kind of money. He's going to get overpaid by someone, so why hamstring your money just to decline to match?


Because that is the only way to make sure we get more than just a 4th round pick for him. That is what the very 1st comp pick is. Nothing more than a 4th round pick.


Ansah is an unrestricted free agent. They can only use the Franchise tag or transition tag to tender him. The transition tag provides no compensation if you refuse to match. The franchise tag will cost around $16M-$17M for DEs in 2018, you cannot tender an injury prone guy like Ansah for that much money. He would instantly sign his tender and you would destroy the cap space.

The very first compensatory pick is usually the end of the 3rd round, but I do believe the league could award a higher round if they ever wanted too.

I wouldn't even expect the Lions to receive a comp pick for Ansah. It's very likely they sign a FA of better or equal value. IMO the only way the Lions get value from Ansah leaving is with the FT and I think you would have to be an idiot to do that unless your committed to keeping him.


The very first comp pick comes AT THE END of the third round. It is what used to be the 1st pick of the 4th round. You can use semantics and insist that it is a 3rd round pick all you want. Really it is a 4th round pick.

And everyone always says that if a FA leaves and you sign a guy to stop the bleeding, that you won’t get a comp pick. That is crap. There is so much that goes into the awarding of comp picks. Original round the guy you lost is a factor as well as how much he signed for with the new team all put into comparison with the guy you signed. Along with about another dozen factors.


The pick happens before the first pick of the 4th round so it is a 3rd round pick. That is a fact.

It's not crap to say the Lions wont get a comp pick for Ansah because with how much money they have available and a new coach it is almost a sure thing they will sign a FA of greater or equal value to Ansah. Also to get comp picks you have to lose more FAs than you sign and there is very little chance that happens with a new coach coming in.


Pretty sure you swore we wouldn’t get a comp pick for Suh also.


The more I think about it and how dumb and desperate teams often get, I probably am completely wrong and Ansah will get such a stupidly big contract the Lions will be guaranteed a comp pick.

I really can't stand the possibility that Ansah takes up 14-16M in cap space to play maybe 8 games at a starter level. I would rather just have the cap space open on the off chance a team tries to dump a good expensive vet player or troubled talent late in the offseason or during the season.


January 4th, 2018, 11:04 am
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Post Re: Ansah.
rao wrote:
The Legend wrote:
rao wrote:
Transition tag is probably going to be near $14M for DE. I would like to see Ansah brought back, but not for that kind of money. He's going to get overpaid by someone, so why hamstring your money just to decline to match?


in ansah s case the one year committment makes it easier to justify. this team isnt loaded with passrushers and cant afford to let the one they do have walk - especially when kid genius hasnt been drafting any the last 2 years. on the other hand, ansahs inconsistent play bc of injuries makes you hesitate to commit long term.

also im sick of hearing this about hamstringing money when the alternative is not having a good player and instead just having the money but not spending it on quality players. bringing in guys like cornelius washington, stefan charles, akeem spence isnt going to take ur defense to the next level. time to try something different this time around.


Hamstring your money as in limit your available cap space for the opening of free agency. I think resigning Ansah for anything other than a team friendly deal is moronic and tagging him could stop you from actually signing a quality player. I'm assuming Ansah's agent would get him to instantly sign his tender if he's tagged. If not it's fine since you can just rescind the tag, but I wouldn't take that chance given Ansah's age and injury history.



ingram got 4 yrs/$64m i believe. lions might have to offer something close to that.


January 4th, 2018, 11:35 pm
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Post Re: Ansah.
Lions only have 5 picks in this draft, im wondering if quinn is thinking about trading someone on a friendly deal for a pick. tate might be a decent example. golladay looks like he s coming along and could be the No 2 with TJ Jones still giving them somthing as a cheap No 3 plus Ebron, Riddick and maybe lining up abdullah or agnew in certain situations. they might be able to move some of tate s receptions to other players and fill some of those plays with carries to a legit runner which seems inevitable that they must take.


January 4th, 2018, 11:39 pm
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Post Re: Ansah.
I wouldn't be opposed to a 16M/yr for Ansah if it was dependent on play time and production incentives. I wouldn't even have a problem with a bigger deal if it's based on incentives and has easy out for the team if he doesn't meet the incentives. As he is right now, I wouldn't pay him more than 10-12M/yr due to his inconsistent play because of nagging injuries.

I wouldn't trade Tate, he's been a machine getting YAC and I think he's a good voice for the team most of the time. Golladay coming along actually makes Tate more valuable since he will have even more room underneath to work with 2 deep threats on the team. I would actually look to extend Tate, his style and body type should hold up longer than most WRs. I could see moving Riddick, his wrists seem like a perpetual problem from now on and I still think Abdullah would be an asset as a 3rd down back if he improves his blocking again this off-season.


January 5th, 2018, 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Ansah.
Before signing Ansah to anything we are going to have to get a new head coach and he will determine the type of defense we will be playing. Ansah may not be part of that style. Like if we go to a 3-4 I don't see Ansah as a good linebacker, especially being paid DE money.

Before trading away known players for unknown players you have to consider the very simple fact that you are highly unlikely to get as good as you lose. There is also the matter of making the most of what you have. While we didn't see great pressure from the defense that doesn't mean it was all the players.

The fact that Ansah struggled the last two years, to stay healthy and once on the field, is reason enough to take the risk that he will walk. I would certainly make him an offer, but nothing near the tender prices. I would rather pay more for a player that has shown more over the last two years.

Either way, we need a new scheme. Relying on the front four to get it done while everyone else squats in a zone isn't working, nor are the zone blitzes.


January 6th, 2018, 7:02 pm
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Post Re: Ansah.
Quote:
I wouldn't be opposed to a 16M/yr for Ansah if it was dependent on play time and production incentives. I wouldn't even have a problem with a bigger deal if it's based on incentives and has easy out for the team if he doesn't meet the incentives. As he is right now, I wouldn't pay him more than 10-12M/yr due to his inconsistent play because of nagging injuries.


im thinking incentive laden deal with ansah that could end up 5 yrs/$70m, i think it would make sense for less guaranteed money and per year than ingram


Quote:
I wouldn't trade Tate, he's been a machine getting YAC and I think he's a good voice for the team most of the time. Golladay coming along actually makes Tate more valuable since he will have even more room underneath to work with 2 deep threats on the team. I would actually look to extend Tate, his style and body type should hold up longer than most WRs. I could see moving Riddick, his wrists seem like a perpetual problem from now on and I still think Abdullah would be an asset as a 3rd down back if he improves his blocking again this off-season.


it would definitely be difficult to see tate go but he ll play next season at age 30 and i think he does take a lot of hits in his role as run after catch possession receiver. i agree he could have 4 or 5 good years left but then again his next contract will be pricier and also more risky as there s more risk of decline bw age 31-34 than 26-30. at any rate he s under contract next season at a good price, is a good player and therefore has value. the lions also have developed some depth there where the No 3 WR looks to have No 1 WR potential and the team seems to have a good number of pass catchers in general. With limited resources this offseason, it would be a very New England move to get something back for a good player before father time diminishes his value.

i agree with you trading either riddick or abdullah could be in the cards, riddick is pricier but i think he can play with bad wrists moreso than abdullah will hold up with his foot injury given that they are both runners. abdullah only has one cheap year left on his deal anyway so lions exposure would be minimal with regards to the injury and i think abdullah could handle that role and in some ways be more threatening than riddick.


January 6th, 2018, 9:21 pm
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