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 Poll: Drafting BMW 

In hindsight, did the selection of BMW maximize the value of Detroit's tenth pick overall?
A. Yes, BMW was the best available player on the board when the Lions picked. 20%  20%  [ 4 ]
B. Yes, BMW represented maximum value considering who was available and the absence of viable trade down options. 55%  55%  [ 11 ]
C. No, drafting another receiver in the top 10 was unwise and historically unprecedented for a reason: There will not be enough balls to go around or enough salary to pay these guys. 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
D. Derrick Johnson will be a better player and Millen will regret the day he bypassed him 20%  20%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 20

 Poll: Drafting BMW 
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Doh!

How can I forget our fearless leader? Paul 'Pablo' Donaghy!

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June 21st, 2005, 5:52 pm
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TheRealWags wrote:
Man I could go for some Molson or Labatt's or Moosehead out here in AZ..its been a long, long time..........oh good times, good times


I never really got into any foreign beer, just guiness and boddingtons pub ale.. but I am a simple man and I drink as of recently Budweiser Select.

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June 21st, 2005, 6:05 pm
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"orick, I selected D, but it still seems a bit strong. There really wasn't a category which generalized my stance, namely:

that Derrick Johnson was the best player available and we should have went in that direction, but Mike Williams isn't too far behind in the talent level. He might as well be his equal, just on opposite sides of the ball. I just thought it would've been more prudent to take the best Defensive Player in the draft rather than the best offensive player in the draft. So I think how BMW will contribute won't necessarily make Millen regret his pick."

Fair enough HB. I am sure they are not saving a place for me at Zogby! Writing good poll questions is difficult.

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June 21st, 2005, 6:05 pm
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Bubbles the Lion

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I'm not opposed to the BMW pick, my only issue is they left 10 minutes on the clock instead of using that time to explore trading the pick. San Diego, for instance, could have used a WR, and if the Lions had been able to trade down, still get someone like DJ or Pollack or Brodney Pool in addition to Cody, that would have been a better draft in my opinion.

But don't get me wrong, I still think BMW was probably the best player and biggest star potential available at that position, and if the pick was kept, it was the right one.

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June 21st, 2005, 6:11 pm
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As Honolulu Blue said, there wasn't a category that really fit me.

I chose C.

I felt that we could have targeted a receiver, and I had a hunch that if someone like BMW or Braylon were to fall, that we would.

I don't think we can pay these 3 in the future, or that they will hold their egos intact once one of them becomes the #3, then the other, etc.

He was the BPA. That's true. Johnson was incredibly overrated in this draft by many (Pablo) :lol: .

We don't know about the trade down issues. We don't know if we were looking to trade down, whatever. Millen never spoke about it. I just remember that we wasted no time in picking Williams.


June 21st, 2005, 8:11 pm
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Remember, Dallas, New Orleans, and Houston--all teams with needs at linebacker--all had a shot at Derrick Johnson and passed. I'm guessing that the hype was bigger than the player.

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June 21st, 2005, 8:20 pm
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Strawberries&Chocolat wrote:
Remember, Dallas, New Orleans, and Houston--all teams with needs at linebacker--all had a shot at Derrick Johnson and passed. I'm guessing that the hype was bigger than the player.


Carolina too... they took an OLB in Thomas Davis (could use him at free safety) over Johnson. DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman, and Thomas Davis were all taken over Johnson.


June 21st, 2005, 8:23 pm
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In a past pastabelly tip sheet a LB coach said that DJ was a great athlete but that he would have to be retaught how to play the position. Obviously that type of knock does not make you a top 10 pick.

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June 22nd, 2005, 12:10 am
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Makes me wonder. Can some 40 odd scouts, coaches and front office men be wrong? Or was I wrong?

Well a down hasn't been played yet and I've seen so much knocks on DJ since then... I just know they are all sooo wrong.

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June 22nd, 2005, 12:40 am
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LionsFan4Life wrote:
I never really got into any foreign beer, just guiness and boddingtons pub ale.. but I am a simple man and I drink as of recently Budweiser Select.
That Bud Select is actually a pretty good beer. I wasn't expecting much, but I like it. I may have to make it my new domestic beer. :wasted: new_all_coholic.gif

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June 22nd, 2005, 11:58 am
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TheRealWags wrote:
LionsFan4Life wrote:
I never really got into any foreign beer, just guiness and boddingtons pub ale.. but I am a simple man and I drink as of recently Budweiser Select.
That Bud Select is actually a pretty good beer. I wasn't expecting much, but I like it. I may have to make it my new domestic beer. :wasted: new_all_coholic.gif


Agreed. My fav beer since it came out.

Back to HB's comment about DJ, DJ is a great college player, but those knocks on him don't translate well into the pros and are seen as HUGE weaknesses. Notably, him going for the strip on almost every tackle. This can be HUGE to his game and to a team if he can master the strip and still get the tackle if the strip doesn't work, if not, he gives up a big play. I don't know. Teams pass on lots of people in the draft for various reasons.

For instance, Erasmus James is a sure fire top 10 pick in the past draft WITHOUT his injuries, however, injuries cost him quite a few mil. The guy may be a superstud and get 10 sacks every season until he retires and play without an injury, nobody knows.

People passed on Big Baby, looked how he's turned out. It's a guessing game, for DJ, it's a guessing game for different reasons. I am disappointed we didn't get him though.


June 22nd, 2005, 12:39 pm
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Honolulu_Blue wrote:
Ferris wrote:
I was curious about the article.. do the writers post at lion backer/who are they? just curious.. good article guys!


Yeah they do. for awhile we're the only ones posting. But they are your favorite posters... Brian, Mike = m2karateman, Tom = Yorick. Those are your more frequent writers as of now anyway.

Yorick, I selected D, but it still seems a bit strong. There really wasn't a category which generalized my stance, namely:

that Derrick Johnson was the best player available and we should have went in that direction, but Mike Williams isn't too far behind in the talent level. He might as well be his equal, just on opposite sides of the ball. I just thought it would've been more prudent to take the best Defensive Player in the draft rather than the best offensive player in the draft. So I think how BMW will contribute won't necessarily make Millen regret his pick.


Bob is LionFan57. My take on the whole BMW thing is that he was the best potential talent available, but not necessarily the best player. I was more a fan of trading down. Supposedly nobody was biting, but Millen made that selection awfully quick after Washington made their Carlos Rogers pick. CRog, Roy and BMW could represent the best young trio of receivers in football right now, but the Lions will be hard pressed to keep all three happy for the remainder of their respective contracts.

From the standpoint of taking Derrick Johnson, I agree that he would have been an upgrade, I don't feel the Lions are in too bad of shape with our current players. I question more the selections made in the following rounds than the selection made in the first round. I still feel the Lions should have selected Justin Tuck in round three. Passing him over absolutely made no sense to me. And picking Stanley Wilson now makes even less sense. Using a third rounder on a player that will be fifth on the depth chart is a poor move.

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June 22nd, 2005, 1:17 pm
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here is a recent article written about DJ, of course they aren't even in pads yet so... I still like the BMW pick. I also liked DJ and never thought BMW would be available until I saw the Goose's first mock draft. lionsmack (nice banner BTW) hit it on the nose when he pointed out how fast the Lions made their selection, but I don't think many teams were looking to trade up at that point - then again, we should have explored it a bit more. I'm fine with the Lions first two selections, but like HB pointed out Wilson wasn't a prudent move and the Big Ov over McP - well you all know how I feel about that. (*,)

here is a recent article written about DJ, of course they aren't even in pads yet so...

Quote:
KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- I visited Chiefs camp last Wednesday, and one player stood out above the rest: Derrick Johnson. He's the rookie linebacker from Texas taken by Kansas City in the first round in April, and he's fast. Really fast. I got a chance to watch him on the practice field, unpadded, as offense played defense in a non-contact, play-installation drill. If he's this good when they put the pads on -- which, of course, nobody knows yet, and it's silly to pretend one workout can portend greatness -- the Chiefs might finally have the really good linebacker they've been lacking since the death of Derrick Thomas.

Of course, we all know if Kansas City's defense doesn't improve, it'll be stuck in Eight-and-eightville, three games or so behind San Diego. You don't want to burden Johnson right away, but it was impossible not to notice the kid flying around. On one play, rookie tight end Edwin Thompson caught a pass in the flat and turned to run up field. From the other side of the formation, Johnson sprinted through traffic like he was running around human cones and collared Thompson. Had the pads been on, Thompson might have gained two yards before the collision with Johnson. And on it went during the workout, Johnson flying around like a force the Chiefs haven't had in years.

"What's great about Derrick is not just the speed you saw out there, but his game speed,'' coach Dick Vermeil said. 'He's going to be special.''
"I know that's what they expect out of me,'' a drenched Johnson said as he walked off the practice field on an 84-degree cloudless day. "Speed's crucial in football. That's my game. I should be able to get to a lot of plays.''

It was easy to make the Chiefs' defense a punching bag the past few years. They were 31st and 32nd in NFL team defense in 2002 and 2003, respectively, then thought they fixed the problem by replacing read-and-react defensive coordinator Greg Robinson last year with attack-man Gunther Cunningham. Big mistake. Coaches coach. But they scheme. They hit no one. They chase no one. And with no major changes in the starting lineup, the Chiefs stunk on defense again.

The additions of Johnson, linebacker Kendrell Bell, cornerback Patrick Surtain and safety Sammy Knight will improve the Chiefs' defense, but the big question is, by how much? Kansas City is going to score; the Chiefs have been among the top three offenses in the league three years in a row. If the defense can just be middle-of-the-pack, the Chiefs should be a playoff team. I didn't pick Kansas City to make the playoffs a couple of weeks ago -- I chose San Diego to win the AFC West -- because I still don't trust the defense. I don't know if Bell, constantly hurt last year with Pittsburgh, can be the rangy playmaker the Steelers thought they had before he broke down. I like Surtain a lot; he's the cover corner this team needed badly. I like Knight, who's a turnover-maker; no player in the league has as many takeaways (fumble recoveries and interceptions) over the past eight years as Knight's 46. (Stole that one from Chiefs Web site maestro, Kansas City radioman and Hall of Fame voting peer Bob Gretz. Great, great note.)

Johnson dropped in the draft because some teams questioned whether he can be a physical hitter and fundamental tackler. We'll see if those concerns pan out when the pads come on.

But Cunningham has gotten what he wanted. The top-rated safety on his wish list was Dwight Smith, who re-signed with Tampa Bay; but Knight was second. His top-rated linebacker was Julian Peterson, but Petersonwas franchise-tagged by San Francisco; next on Cunningham's list was Bell. Everyone in the organization wanted Surtain. And Johnson was a popular pick. The Chiefs have what their cap can bear, and the folks around Arrowhead think they've finally done what they need to do to be good enough on defense.

I'm still not sure. It's fitting the Chiefs are in Missouri, because I'm in show-me mode. And they'll have to show a lot early. Kansas City opens with three playoff teams in four weeks (Jets, Broncos, Eagles) and a fourth, Oakland, that could be the most improved offensive team in football in 2005.

There's been too much false optimism around the Chiefs the past two or three offseasons. The team always thought it made enough moves to be adequate on defense, and it turns out it never did. So let's give Kansas City credit for the effort that came a year too late, and let's wait. I'm sticking with San Diego to win the West, but I'm intrigued. Watching Derrick Johnson run around can do that to you.
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June 22nd, 2005, 1:36 pm
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Quote:
I still feel the Lions should have selected Justin Tuck in round three. Passing him over absolutely made no sense to me. And picking Stanley Wilson now makes even less sense. Using a third rounder on a player that will be fifth on the depth chart is a poor move


I absolutely agree w/ this Mike. I have seen video on both Tuck and Wilson, and there is NO QUESTION who the better talent is. People argue that Tuck was too light for a defensive end, but forget that he is 6'5 and can easily put on another 20 to 25 lbs w/o diminishing his speed off the corner.

As for the video on Wilson I saw, there is no doubt he is very fast and has good closing speed, but his coverage skills were very average and tackling technique was poor. In other words, Millen used a 3rd round pick on a project. As Mike stated, that is a poor decision.

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June 22nd, 2005, 1:37 pm
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Quote:
I'm fine with the Lions first two selections, but like HB pointed out Wilson wasn't a prudent move and the Big Ov over McP - well you all know how I feel about that. (*,)


Pablo, I also agree w/ you that we should have took McPherson over Orlovsky. I think this was a better prospect to groom in case Joey falters this year.

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June 22nd, 2005, 1:41 pm
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