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 Joey to be cuy June 1??? 
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upnorthlion wrote:
No matter if we are talking about Lion QB's or Red Wing Goalies, its always the same. The number 2 should be number 1. Bah take a look at the bigger picture.


You mean to say you like Cujo better than Legace :shock: :shock:

All kidding aside, Joey is not as bad as his detractors say and not as good as his supporters say. He hasn't had a good situation recently, with no talent. But he han't made the plays happen. That is the difference between a decent and a really good qb. Joey never takes over games. I think he can and wouldn't be surprised if he starts to next season with healty talent, but until then, he is not a good qb in my book.

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March 24th, 2005, 8:58 am
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bsand2053 wrote:
All kidding aside, Joey is not as bad as his detractors say and not as good as his supporters say. He hasn't had a good situation recently, with no talent. But he han't made the plays happen. That is the difference between a decent and a really good qb. Joey never takes over games. I think he can and wouldn't be surprised if he starts to next season with healty talent, but until then, he is not a good qb in my book.


You make an excellent point. I agree that there are times Joey has had the opportunity to make the big completion for a TD or first down and missed his chance by making a poor read or a poor throw. There were several times I can remember from last season that our receiver had position and Harrington didn't get the job done. But then again, there were the drops that can't be thrown on his shoulders. As I said, team game, team effort, team wins, team loses. It can't all be put on one player for conveniences sake. Joey needs an 'awakening' this year where he does exactly as you say....takes over games.

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March 24th, 2005, 1:00 pm
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Mike I think it comes down to expectations. Being drafted 3rd overall sets up some pretty high expectations and Joey has not quite lived up to them. You have to think of other QBs that are headliners all the time that were picked in that region like Peyton Manning, Culpepper, McNabb, Vick and then we look at our QB and saw, "Why can't you be more like them!?!" Granted that many other QBs drafted that high have not panned out like Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, etc...Joey falls into a limbo in-between both worlds of total bust and superstar. He so far has just been ok. So of course people are going to put some blame on him because he is getting paid to be one of the best. I totally agree with many of the factors surrounding the Lions poor seasons but when you are taken that high you need to perform or you fail in the eyes of the fans and critics.

I think he could be much better but maybe not quite a superstar. If the conditions around him are all improved like you suggest of course he could do very well and we all know (or so we here lol) that winning cures all ills. But Joey has not yet shown that he is the performer that he was drafted to be...he is much better suited to be a part of a winning system than the cog of one.

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March 24th, 2005, 1:24 pm
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Alpha I've said basically the same thing on previous posts. As a third overall pick Joey has not lived up to his selection value. However, he isn't as bad as what other people would have us believe. I don't believe an elite quarterback HAS to have tremendous talent around him to succeed. Favre has had good receivers, but certainly no one tremendous and HOF bound. Harrington is more of the Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson type. Be efficient and don't make mistakes and let the rest of the team do what needs to be done. Just don't screw up. Problem here is, the rest of the team hasn't always done their part either.

Something to remember is that Joey didn't elect to be taken third overall. He didn't expect to be taken third overall. So if he doesn't live up to that status, is it his fault? No, this is on Millen. But I can't say that I will argue with the pick, because this team needed a quarterback. McMahon was NOT going to get it done, and never will. The Lions had to make that pick, no matter how unpopular it was.

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March 24th, 2005, 2:08 pm
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At the time I think it was a very popular pick. I would just say that Detroit in regards to being a hockey goalie or a QB are just really tough jobs :lol:



And besides...Mike McMahon will always be a superstar in my heart :wink:

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March 24th, 2005, 2:19 pm
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theAlphaMale wrote:
And besides...Mike McMahon will always be a superstar in my heart :wink:


Lay off the cheeba Alpha!!! It'll destroy your brain cells!!! haha


March 24th, 2005, 3:20 pm
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Well, this year, all the droppers besides Az are gone, and he might be too. Does everyone agree with me, wheter or not you like Joey, that next year at this time Joey will be gone or there will be no question of his starting job?

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March 24th, 2005, 4:06 pm
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Joey can be such a tease that I wouldn't count out another year of wondering. Never forget the Wayne Fonts being a bum the first half of the season and then railing off 7 wins. It really never got us anywhere but you felt so damn good about the consecutive wins you forgot all about the crappy part.

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March 24th, 2005, 4:31 pm
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It wouldnt make any scence to cut him...If we were to cut him why would we sign Garcia to start, we just signed him to light a fire under joey's arse and to mentor him in the whole WCO thing he wont be that much of a mentor to joey but he will teach him some things about the WCO,anyways it would be very stupid to cut someone when Mooch and Millen have faith in him,even garcia said he's here to make Joe better.

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March 24th, 2005, 4:38 pm
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It wouldnt make any scence to cut him...If we were to cut him why would we sign Garcia to start, we just signed him to light a fire under joey's arse and to mentor him in the whole WCO thing he wont be that much of a mentor to joey but he will teach him some things about the WCO,anyways it would be very stupid to cut someone when Mooch and Millen have faith in him,even garcia said he's here to make Joe better.

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March 24th, 2005, 4:38 pm
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Mooch has been very cool about Joey to the media. He hasn't shown much faith in Joey, like hes stuck with him and theres nothing he can do about it.

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March 25th, 2005, 8:48 am
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Mike, read closer. That was an article from Pro Football Weekly not my
personal opinions. Generally I like your posts but I have a couple points to make.
Nothing more hypocritical then your comments about McMahon, received
far less playing time and practice time, when he did play had an even
worse surrounding squad than Joey's. Backup argument is BS because people here liked McMike bc of what he did before Joey's arrival. If you dont know about Joey you dont know about McMahon - PERIOD As for Joey. I agree he may be able to play well for a difft team in
the future but nobody here should care. He would definitely be getting
much less pay and likely in a difft offense or at least a difft role.
You keep claiming that he will be good if we get a better supporting
cast around him, that it is the 22 players on the team not just one. I
agree but in this case Joey is a limiting factor. He accounts for >10% of
the team's salary cap not 1/22 or 1/45. He has a much higher burden to
fulfill than the role you keep resigning him to. At that price he is
expected to be and has to be a star. Further, at that amount he limits
how good the supporting cast can be. His play must make the players
around him better not the other way around. Theoretically, a guy getting
that much should be the fixture, with many of the guys around him
revolving but the team's play remaining at a high level. Not every player must be a star. If Roy, Charles, Az and Kevin Jones all play great; the
Lions wont be able to sustain them for long bc of financial reasons.
That the GM doesnt realize this is a travesty.
You compare him to Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. Yes both have won
Super Bowls, neither is exceptional. They were able to succeed however bc of big distinctions differentiating their situations from Joey's.
Neither commanded large chunks of the salary cap and neither was the focal point of the team's gameplans, their role was to not mess up. Joey
however takes both big salary and a big role. The last 2 seasons he has had numerous opportunities to either take the lead or tie games in the 4th
quarter. Repeatedly he has failed. He has fumbled, thrown INTs, thrown
INTs for TDs, thrown short passes to RB in 2 minute drills with no
timeouts, missed wide open receivers, and even blew a kill clock play this
season. He does not even play with urgency let alone command and
confidence, he goes through the motions. In what has been called his best
game as a pro, the team merely came close to pulling off an upset (missed XP). That was his best game!!! Give me a break.
Back to Dilfer and Johnson. Dilfer was an early rd pick and similar to
Joey went to a young team. He made a salary that was out of proportion
to his play and proved he could not be the team's focal point. He went
to Baltimore and won a Super Bowl. He was no longer getting high pay
but the team around him was excellent, he simply didnt mess it up. TB
didnt care they later won a Super Bowl without him and BAL cut Dilfer
knowing he was not the reason they won.
For 3 seasons we have watched Joey and he has not been the man. Lets
stop pretending like those 3 seasons didnt count, he was out there
playing and the guys around him have improved and been changed yet the same excuses are being made. If he is to stay here his role should become like that of Dilfer's or Johnson's, his contract should be adjusted
accordingly, and then the team around him can be further upgraded. If he
refuses this he should be gone. In FA he will find a similar fate as Dilfer
or Johnson and we can move on. It may be too late to take this approach
this season bc major FA period has passed, on the other hand we still
need a player or two but cap space is narrowing...


March 25th, 2005, 7:11 pm
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too early for me to even read this much :P

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March 26th, 2005, 8:32 am
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my bad...


March 27th, 2005, 12:04 am
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The Legend wrote:
You compare him to Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. Yes both have won
Super Bowls, neither is exceptional. They were able to succeed however bc of big distinctions differentiating their situations from Joey's.
Neither commanded large chunks of the salary cap and neither was the focal point of the team's gameplans, their role was to not mess up. Joey
however takes both big salary and a big role.


That is the role that Joey will have to grow into. Its clear that he isn't going to be the Brett Farve and take games over. If he is resigned, he new salary should reflect that. I think the offense will center around KingJones next year. A good running game is a quaterback's best friend. I am not a Joey liker, but I think he can be a reliable starter, but not the star some think he will become. I don't know if he can do that though. Thats what this year will tell. He doens't have to take games over, just make things happen, like I said in an earlier post.

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March 27th, 2005, 11:24 am
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