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 How do you scheme the offense? 
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Stadium Announcer

Joined: March 31st, 2005, 9:27 pm
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Legend

As I recall it Mooch gave the vikes an extra 3rd down and did not force them to kick a field goal. I believe that the fourth down play would have been 4 yards. Unfortunately they scored a touchdown.

Another point is that the Lions were one of the worst teams from scoring from over 40 yards out. I never talked about trick plays. You brought that point up.

My point is that Mooch is not prepared to call a game where the signature play is not to dump the ball off to the easiest reciever.

He's a p---- and everyone knows it.

Get over it, the west coast offense isn't as great as you think it is. If it was how come a west"coast offense" haasn't won the superbowl for at least 8 years.

Mooch is going down


April 3rd, 2005, 12:09 am
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Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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yeah yeah I saw the game. Tice was going to go for that 4th down he was not going to kick, Mooch was smart enough to know that. They just didnt get the stop...I by no means defend the WCO or even worse, coming to a team and forcing the existing players to play in a new system even if they dont fit. But the Lions system is in place and it is a WCO. They have added the talent and taught the fundamentals of the system. They are not a finished product yet and there playbook will expand. The big step is to execute the system in place regardless of what it is. While a WCO hasnt won it all in a few years, several teams with it have been successful like the Packers, Seahawks, Broncos, Falcons, Eagles, Mooch's 49ers, Jets, etc. Mooch's version is conservative and frustrating but the guy lead excellent teams in SF w exciting offenses, give it some time to grow.


April 3rd, 2005, 12:40 am
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Joined: September 9th, 2004, 12:21 pm
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Location: Mt. Pleasant, MI
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:arrow: I generally feel the Lions need to open it up more. I have heard that "Mooch" likes Joey's ability to run the no huddle offense and plans to take advantage of that more this year. They need to take more shots down field.

KJ must get 20-25 touches a game. Running more play action would be wise, as well as running out of the shotgun on occassion. They also need to run more misdirection plays. KJ should have a better grasp of the offense now, which will allow more options with him. Now for KJ to work on catching the ball better.

"Mooch" is a very consevative play caller, but I believe Millen has had words with him about this and Tollner will be calling most of the plays this year. As conservative as "Mooch" is, Millen wants to see him take advantage of the speed and talent available now. Expect to see them open the offense up more.



5squeeze.gif :arrow:


April 3rd, 2005, 3:17 pm
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Joined: March 31st, 2005, 11:43 am
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I like the idea of alot of 3WR sets with KJ in the backfield .. last year we horribly predictable. with KJ and a full back in we ran everytime or bombed a pass to Williams. Every time Bryson was in a Pass or a screen. Tollner will be much more creative and can be selectively aggressive running the ball this year. Of course if we can get this West Coast offense of the ground this year with 4 WR's worthy to the cause, those could be interesting as well... [/b]

_________________
"Roy Williams hasn't even scratched the surface yet, at some point he is going to explode"-Mooch


April 3rd, 2005, 4:59 pm
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Joined: March 17th, 2005, 12:41 am
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From what I have read on this thread we all seem to agree that KJ needs to get the ball regularly because he is a stud and teams have to respect him, if Mooch shows a willingness to run the ball consistently. That opens up play action plays, just look at the Colts with James and Peyton using the play action seemingly everytime they throw a pass, they are able to do this because teams respect James' ability to hurt a defence. We spent two top ten picks on track star recievers with both of them hopefully playing this year at 100 percent I hope and pray that we utilize them with fly routes and deep posts, anything to strech the D and help out KJ.
I am absolutly sick of scraping by with 17 to 24 points, with the offensive talent we have that is unacceptable. Our highest point total all last season was 28 and we only reached that twice(we got 27 in our last game with the Viqueens, although everyone knows that should be 28.) Our D is solid but were not good enough were we can expect to consistenly hold a team to 21 points our less. If we want a successful season this year than we need to put up more points.


April 3rd, 2005, 6:32 pm
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Joined: November 15th, 2004, 4:05 am
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First I just want to make sure people understand I was half joking in an earlier post about running trick plays all the time. Like most fans I enjoy trick plays, but I wasn't really suggesting that the Lions run at least one each drive. hat20.gif

wi LION wrote:
Get over it, the west coast offense isn't as great as you think it is. If it was how come a west"coast offense" haasn't won the superbowl for at least 8 years.


Tampa won the SB not too long ago with a WCO, and as Legend pointed out, the playoffs are almost always filled with teams that use some form of the WCO. Detroit was already running the WCO when Mooch came in, athough I'm sure he would have swithed to it had they not been.

As far as his play calling goes, I too find it a tad too conservative, but I also agree with Legend that it can often win games. IMO there are games it seems Mooch calls plays trying to sit on a four point lead in order to hold on for a win, when I'd much rather see him be a bit more agressive trying to score and ice the game. zicon_rambo.gif

When he was in SF he would have the same coplaints voiced but he was winning more games than he lost, so people could only complain so much. At the time 9er fans didn't just want wins, they wanted "pretty wins". It's funny because 9er fans would sometimes say he was to conservative and that he ran the ball too much. It seems that most Detroit fans don't think he runs it enough. argue.gif

I would say give Mooch and the WCO more of a chance. I think Millen has put the team in a position to realisticly make a playoff run this year. It's not like the Lions were lighting it up before the WCO or Mooch came to town.


April 4th, 2005, 3:11 am
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:arrow: With a little tweaking and players playing healthy this year [-o< maybe this offense will start to put on the show that they are capable of.
Too much talent on the field together to have another disasterous season.

[-o< :arrow:


April 4th, 2005, 4:26 pm
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman

Joined: March 22nd, 2005, 8:42 pm
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The one thing I have not seen mentioned yet is simplicity. One major problem last year was that the offense was out of sync. Harrington's manliness and Mooch's conservatism were two popular scapegoats, but I think that when you dig deeper you had too many rookies and UDFAs running complex option routes with a quarterback that needed a lot of help.

I hope any offensive overhaul will address this issue. We have top of the NFL type talent. What I would do is simplify the plays to give Harrington three strike points (short, medium, long, dump off or scramble). If we could set a uniform timing in his head I think he could get into a rhythm and the accuracy problems could dissipitate.

+ *
20yd (fly and post 3 3
pollard, RW, CR)

10 Yd (TE, 2 or 3 2--> * + <--2
cross, seam

5 Yd (QO's and slants) 4+ *1 + 1* 4


We have yet to see the WCO in operation in Detroit. It is a timing offense and too often Harrington locks in on one guy. Rarely do I see progressions, which is probably a product of him thinking too much and the receivers thinking too much.


PS: see what happens to the chalk board?


April 8th, 2005, 2:28 am
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Wrong, the current schemes have been too simple and too predictable. You are right they still need to work on fundamentals but a little variety will help them. ex. playaction passing, run to both sides of O-line, trap and counter runs, go for 1st downs on 3rd down...


April 8th, 2005, 9:24 am
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman

Joined: March 22nd, 2005, 8:42 pm
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I know exactly what you are saying, but were are talking about different "predictabilities." Our offense was predictable because it was not executing. And it was not excuting because it was too complex, or better said, it had insufficient experienced parts. That led to a lot of telegraphed runs and dump offs. That kind of goes with what I was trying to argue. Simplifying the offense, making the intermediate and longer throws easier to execute, would make our offense less predictable. The problem is not Joey throwing long, but reading his progressions and having time to do so. That is the way I see it anyway.


April 8th, 2005, 12:02 pm
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gotcha


April 8th, 2005, 4:47 pm
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