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 How do you scheme the offense? 
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RIP Killer
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If signing some of the best players/biggest names on the FA market doesn't help solidify the OL...maybe the OL coach needs to be replaced. There were so many throws where Joey never had a wideout open and had to make the safe play to either Bryson or Alexander. This mainly due to back up receivers and not having enough time in the pocket. I think the sack number on Joey shows that, having gone up from the past 2 years.


March 29th, 2005, 11:10 pm
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Part of that falls on Joey. He needs to be more patient. IMO, he had decent mobility and should use that to his advantage.

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March 30th, 2005, 5:00 pm
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Overall, I see the Lions D as much better than the O despite the high round picks on O. I could see them using as many picks on O as D in this year's draft especially early since Millen is better finding late round defensive talent and is less successful than offensively.
The Lions do need to run the ball more to be more effective next year. They were limited last year bc of a weak left sided line, often had to predictably run to the right when they needed yardage. They also did not run many misdirections play or any trap plays. KJ did a great job towards the end of last year reading blocks and defender's angles last year on sweep plays; he can do the same on these types of plays.
Passing game could use more rollouts as some have suggested. I'd be cautious though bc despite decent mobility Joey is not a good ad lib player; part of the reason why he dumps the ball off so quickly. If Garcia takes over I would expect more rollouts. The #1 thing our playbook needs is play action passing. Jones is a stud and will draw attention. With Rogers and Williams speed and playmaking ability any hesitation by opposing safeties turn into big plays for us.


March 30th, 2005, 9:20 pm
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: How do you scheme the offense?
Yorick wrote:
This raises the question, how would you take up Tollner's task and tweak 10% of the playbook to improve a unit that was talented but injured, has big performers but was inconsistent? What adjustments would you make and what would you focus on improving with the pieces our offense has in place?


I believe that the Lions should open up their formations more, and therefore I agree with the three wide receiver sets being used more often. I also would like to see Joey in the shotgun more. If KJ can get his pass catching skills more polished, this offense can be potent without having to make too many personel 'package' changes. Should the Lions take a tight end high in this draft, I also wouldn't mind seeing some two tight end, two wide receiver sets either. If the Lions take Joel Dreesen from Colorado State, he would be a perfect H-back style player.

Of course, that would cover more than 10% of the playbook. :lol:

As for plays, I would like to see more trick plays. I haven't seen a trick play on offense in I don't know how long. I'm not talking about stupid plays, but something that's unpredictable and used at a time when nobody suspects it to happen. Mariucci's offense has just been too damned predictable for my tastes. It's time for Steve to get more inventive.

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March 31st, 2005, 2:56 pm
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conversion02 wrote:
Be interesting to see 'em run some out of the gun.


m2karateman wrote:
I also would like to see Joey in the shotgun more.


Bout time someone agrees!


March 31st, 2005, 3:33 pm
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Joey was supposed to play more out of the 'gun this year. I don't know what happened to it, but it could compensate for our questionable oline.

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March 31st, 2005, 4:11 pm
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I'm new to this site but I have been reading your postings for several weeks. While I am not sold on Joey I do believe that he has been hindered in his development.

First, he did not play a full rookie year. He missed 1/3 of the season due to the heart problem.

Second, last season was the first time that he had the luxury of a running game. Unfortunately it only materialized after midseason.

Third, Mooch is a poor play caller. My grandmothers, bless their souls, had more balls in play calling than Mooch. He dosen't play to win, he just dosen't want to lose too badly.

Fourth, why would you give the Vikings another play and not force a field goal, WHICH WOULD NOT COST YOU THE GAME.

Fifth, I live in Wisconsin and have to put up with packer stuff every time the Lions loose to them. It seems that their west coast offense seems to throw the ball deep at least two or three times a game. And not just against the Lions. Why the hell don't we? I'll tell you why; Mooch is a poor play caller.

Fnally, Joey can't develop as a quarterback if he isn't given the opportunity to succeed. How many of you remember whan Favre was developing as a quarterback? He lost more games that he won. He hit a period where he was almost unbeatable and fortunately has come back to earth. The point is, is that he was allowed to fail and succeed. The coaches gave him the opportunity to utilize his skills. To throw the ball DEEP. Let Joey throw the ball deep, just like he did in college.

If anyone needs to go it's Mooch!


March 31st, 2005, 9:53 pm
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Welcome wi LION.

Quote:
I live in Wisconsin and have to put up with packer stuff every time the Lions loose to them.


You poor child. You will be able to get back at them when we sweep next year.

You have some very good points. Mooch is more conservative than Ann Coulter. He does need to cut Joey lose at some point. Up till now, he hasn't been super accurate on deep balls, but how is he going to learn? He does need to step up to the plate this year, or he is long gone.

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March 31st, 2005, 10:04 pm
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Post bsand2053
Thanks for welcoming me.

I talk from experience with the packer people. I have been to every LIONS game at Lambeau since Mel Gray returned a punt for a touchdown to win the game 24 - 17. It was so cold that more people were in the restroms than in the stands.

Believe me that that packer fans are totally petrfied of loosing Favre and not having the heir apparent. That's their problem.

I still believe that Mooch is the problem with the LIONS, not Millen or Joey.

Mooch Doesn't know how to utilize his people or how call a game!


April 1st, 2005, 12:29 am
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"Fourth, why would you give the Vikings another play and not force a field goal, WHICH WOULD NOT COST YOU THE GAME. "

I remember that play. I think Tice would've went for that 4th and 1. Mooch made the right call by moving them back and getting the 3rd and long. Statistically the right call bc Tice had shown willingness to go for 4th downs all game. Have to be able to stop 3rd and long.

The Lions do have receivers running deep routes, its not like the plays are designed for 4 yards and 3rd and 8. Part of that is receivers not being open and Joey being programmed not to take the risk, I hate those plays.
But no matter how frustrating it is, conservative play calling and punts keep you in games. Think of the games we've had shots in bc we played like that and the other team let us back in bc of turnovers or special teams. In 2003, ATL ( Barret Green FF, McMahon chest pass to Stewart), CAR (Boss Bailey fumble return TD), GB (Bly 4 TOs), and ARZ (Bly defensive TD + Drummond Punt Return). In 2004 vs CHI (SRogers blocked FG), HOU (DDavis fumble man + Drummond KR TD), NYG (CCash INT in end zone), JAX (Drummond 2 Punt ret TDs) and ARZ (Navarre multi pick effort). In contrast we have lost bc of dumb turnovers on risky plays 2003- MIN (Joey 2 INTs for TDs in last 3 minutes), 2004 TEN (Joey fumble for TD), GB (Joey INT for TD). Sometimes those plays never happen though, best example was this year vs WAS. As the Williams, Rogers, and Jones' talent develops we will win games when the other teams make crucial errors and beat teams at our level by not making turnovers. Mooch is great at that, his teams dont fumble and he doesnt let QBs lose many games. If we ever get leads Bly, Bailey, Rogers, Hall will get many more opportunities to make big plays bc most coaches dont have Mooch's patience and start chucking the ball when they are behind.


April 1st, 2005, 7:37 am
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I agree legend. Being conservative is generally smart. However, never doing the unexpected is unwarranted. The benefit of trick plays is not just when they work, but giving the defense something to think about when they fail. Remember the Lambeau game last year? Or some other close contests. I was waiting for Mooch to make an impact and pull out some of those games. I guess he took the wind.


April 1st, 2005, 8:45 am
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wi LION made a good point about Mooch not utilitizing his players. I think coming to a team and making them conform to the west coast or any other style of play is dumb. The reason Belicheck is so good is because he molds his scheme around his players, not the other way around. Each scheme should be specifically taylor made for the players. Thats the best way to succeed. To quote Rummy, You go with what you have, not with what you want to have.

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April 1st, 2005, 9:17 am
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bsand2053 wrote:
Mooch is more conservative than Ann Coulter.


WOW, that's ultra-mega-super-crazy conservative


April 1st, 2005, 9:22 am
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conversion02 wrote:
bsand2053 wrote:
Mooch is more conservative than Ann Coulter.


WOW, that's ultra-mega-super-crazy conservative


I thought some people here would like that. :lol: Crazy woman.

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April 1st, 2005, 9:26 am
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The best trick plays arent even seen as tricks by most fans. Lions have yet to effectively use any of the following, these could be unnoticed changes by most fans but can make huge differences.
1) Mix in misdirection runs - counters and traps. Low risk yet they trick the linebackers and D-Line. KJ will be even more effective with the D off balance and unable to use Schlesinger as a cue of Jones' destination. KJ also needs to learn the blocking schemes in the 1 back set so that he can get some touches out of that formation.
2) The play action pass - If KJ picks up where he left off, safeties will have their eyes in the backfield. Get them to bite or hesitate and Roy, Charles, and even Az can make you big plays. The Packers and Colts do this almost every play...
3) The screen pass - you can take a lot of pressure off your O-line and QB when opponent's blitz or have tough D-lines. The Lions over the past 2 years have executed this play very poorly. Bryson isnt a good enough runner, Joey has made poor throws, and KJ has a hard time catching even well thrown balls, none of our O-lineman are very good blocking in space but Roy Williams can.
* Trick plays- the Lions have run some...Roy Williams and Az Hakim on reverses and reverse passes. I bet Chuck Rogers will try a reverse or two. If they can work in Eddie Drummond to get some offensive touches I think they can run the reverse to him. He would also be a great guy for WR screens. His injury history probably limits there use of him on offense. A flea flicker might work but its not really much more than a play action pass. I wouldnt suggest going nuts with trick plays on any level of football but once in a while they work and can lift a team's spirit.


April 1st, 2005, 10:10 am
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